Originally Posted by Shellygirlky (Post 3251767)

Thank you. That cleared up a lot of things I have been wondering about. Now I have more time to be confused over other things. The more I learn the more I want to know.

Originally Posted by Shellygirlky (Post 3251767)

Thank you. That cleared up a lot of things I have been wondering about. Now I have more time to be confused over other things. The more I learn the more I want to know.

Originally Posted by bchgirl (Post 3251398)

Well so say experts with far more knowledge and education regarding genetics than I. You wanna read articles by Carmen Battalia or Jerold Bell to name two.

I do know that inbreeding sets type. Simply because it causes some genes to become homozygous...meaning the same...unlike heterozygous genes which carry differences. So dogs with homozygous genes reproduce themselves because the genes have been "fixed".

There are loads of articles on line regarding inbreeding, genes...some are much easier to understand that others...some I've read several times to understand. lol.

The coefficient of inbreeding in a group of 1000 biewers hovers at around
18%. This is the same COE for standard poodles...some are as high as 25%.

I have seen great strides in structure of the biewers being produced today than several years ago.

I have always been puzzled by the premise of breeding back to a yorkie for health reasons. A)the genetic issues are exactly the same in the two breeds and B)if there are health issues...what benefit do you get when you've bred back to the same dog who health was in question.

As far as the gene pool being considered too small. I own two dogs who do not have any related ancestors until their 5th gen (1 dog)....so there are unrelated dogs out there...

Thanks for saying I'm correct lots of times...:). lol.

Originally Posted by bchgirl (Post 3251451)

I actually believe biewers will be accepted into the AKC FSS program some day.

But I also believe it will be much like the cotons. Multiple breed clubs listed w/ none appointed "parent" and then there will still be others who still classify their dogs as a "rare" breed.

Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3250644)

No 1 Mr Biewer never bred any other breed his dogs came from pure traditional colored yorkies,
The one thing you have to remember is you may dilute the Biewer gene by breeding to a yorkshire Terrier but if you don't you are asking for trouble, There are not nearly enough biewers to close the books..............you will see in time. You cannot close books so quicky on a breed as the Biewer Terrier has done.
It takes years and years and years to have enough dogs to close books.

Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3252168)

Is the independent study of the Biewers on the tape? Who gave Dr Bell all the info for the study of the Biewers?
What info exactly was given to him?

Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3252052)

The level of inbreeding is usually measured using a formula called Wright’s Coefficient of Inbreeding.

It calculates the probability that genes may have been inherited from both sides of an individual’s pedigree. It is far
too complex to do by hand over more than two or three generations, but some of the better pedigree software will
calculate coefficient of inbreeding (COI) for you. The usual 3-5 generation pedigree won't give sufficient information
for a useful calculation. The best indicator for calculating inbreeding COI is 10 generations. (Going back 10
generations represents 1024 ancestors)

Modern breeders should know the COI of each of their dogs and determine what the COI will be on planned litters.

Standard Poodles average around 18%. (This is roughly equivalent to all of them being half-brothers and sisters.
Some of the tops stud dogs in the Show World average over 25% or more!) This is unacceptable!!!

Any mammal whose COI is over 6 % is inbred.

Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3252168)

Is the independent study of the Biewers on the tape? Who gave Dr Bell all the info for the study of the Biewers?
What info exactly was given to him?

Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3252065)

Who do you consider the foundation dogs? Who did the Coi Calculations for you on 1000 Biewers?

Originally Posted by bchgirl (Post 3252386)

I assume this question is directed toward me? Mr. Biewer's foundation dogs would be Fru Fru and Darling Friedheck. And yes, I do know this pair were traditionally colored yorkshire terriers. He never bred his tri colored dogs back to standard colored yorkies.

I need to clarify something...there are 1000 dogs in the registry, but Dr. Bell was given the name of every dog listed on those pedigrees which are 10 generation.

Just a side note...but do you know that the Lowchen breed was brought back from extinction using only 2 dogs...

Originally Posted by jencar98 (Post 3252070)

Do the multiple coton breed clubs all have the same standard? I'm curious, bc if not, I wonder which club's standard they judge by? And, if the Cotons have several breed club represented in AKC, why could Yorkies not also be represented by more than one breed club?

Also, curious as to how AKC could allow Biewers to show? If they are considered Yorkshire terriers, as parti color yorkies are, I don't see how AKC can accept the Biewers as a different breed, even if an approved German registry accepts them.

I think the Biewer and Parti Yorkies are a unique situation for AKC, and personally don't see how AKC, the Biewer and Parti breeders can come to an agreement that will make everyone happy.....it's a shame.

Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3252430)

Mr Biewer did breed his traditional colors to his tri colors, One for instance is he bred Darling/traditional to Grand pom pon which was a tri color female, which resulted in Schneerose.