debarking or bark "softening"
 

Hello all, I know this is bound to be controversial, but I would really appreciate it if anyone who posts in response to this would actually read my entire post before simply writing something out of an impassioned feeling.

I heard about debarking or "bark softening" surgery in the past and was absolutely horrified that people would do that to their dogs. I was glad when I learned that my vet will not perform the surgery. I looked at it in a very black & white way. But here's the thing... life is not always black & white. There's a great deal of grey out there.

Sophie is 1 1/2 years old and loves to bark like no other dog I've had. (Previously, I've owned an Akita, an Afghan hound, and a shih-tzu.) I live in an apartment now and Sophie barks at every little noise and every person walking by, even though these are the same people she is happy to see and be petted by when we're out walking. She loooooves to bark, and I understand that barking is a very natural dog behavior. While the barking of many dogs is an indicator that there is an underlying problem, I think Sophie is genuinely happy and healthy.

In order to train her to stop barking, I've used clicker training and POSITIVE reinforcement to teach her that "Be nice" means she needs to stop barking. She responds well to this cue and stops barking quickly. No drama, no yelling at her, nothing negative: I say "Be nice," and she stops barking. It's amazing what taking the time to bond with and train your dog can do! :)

However... when I'm not home to give the cue, she is terrorizing my apt. neighbors with her barking. They have complained; they have called the apt. office; they have called the police. Yesterday I came home to find a police car in front of my building and a hefty ticket waiting for me. (Mind you, the neighbor who phoned the police has a miniature poodle that barks sometimes, too!) I am struggling with what to do here. I love Sophie very much and she really IS a well-behaved dog!

I know it's not separation anxiety because when I'm filling my water bottle to leave for work, Sophie will climb into her basket in the kitchen before I even put the gate up. She doesn't bark or whine as I finish getting my things together and head out the door. When I come home, she is quiet; in fact, I often wake her up when I walk into the kitchen. She is happy to see me and we take a walk right away. I understand that some dogs appear fine but fall apart when mommy/daddy leave, so I left a digital audio recorder (that I use for my work research) running on multiple days. It recorded for SIX HOURS each day and I then cued through it for barking. Sophie barked repeatedly and loudly, but it was her "I'm being a watch dog" bark, not her "Please, play with me" or "I'm hurt" bark. (Yes, I know the difference in her barks because I'm her mommy, lol.) Yesterday the lawn maintenance guys were in the apt. complex and I'm sure she went nuts every time a mower or blower went by because I wasn't there to say "Be nice," hence the neighbor's call to the police.

So what have I tried? More/longer walks to tire her out before I leave the house for work... more games of catch to tire her out... leaving the radio/TV on when I'm gone... having a dog walker come over on the days that I teach morning and evening classes... citronella collar... high frequency gadget that supposedly emitted a sound when she barked... change food in case it was related to an allergy, etc. Now I'm trying gating her in the kitchen so that she can't see out any windows to be stimulated to bark. I feel badly though because she's potty-pad trained and could have the run of the house all day instead of being in a windowless apt. kitchen. But, if this will stop the barking, then I need to try it. It has reached the point where my apt. manager is talking about me possibly having to get rid of Sophie. I just finished my Ph.D. a few months ago and work as a college professor, so I don't have the money to buy a house. Sophie and I will be living in an apt. for many more years.

And here's where it gets grey... I wonder if it would actually be more humane to have Sophie's bark softened so that she can still bark when I'm gone (again, it's not separation anxiety), but it won't have the neighbors phoning the police. She could then have free range of the house, including her favorite of lying in front of the sliding glass patio door to watch the birds at the feeder, instead of being kept in a windowless apartment kitchen. Reading on-line, I see that many sheltie owners have the procedure performed on their pets. I understand that any surgery has its associated risks and this is not something I am considering lightly. This is not about making her less annoying for me (she's not annoying to me!) or quieting her for a new baby or for some other convenience. I am considering this so that I do not have to give her away. She is a happy dog who loves her mommy and gets showered with love and attention. I think it would be as traumatic for her to be rehomed as it would be for me.

So after all that... I would love to hear the thoughts of other YorkieTalk members. But, PLEASE, don't just post that I'm a horrible person for even considering this. If that's your response, then you clearly haven't carefully read what I've written. Thank you for any thoughtful comments.

I have seen dogs that had that done and I think it's a horrible thing to do. That would be like me taking your right to speech. I wouldn't do that to an animal. If it was a question of that dog being given away to a home where the barking is tolerated I would give the dog away, but I wouldn't take the voice away.

I think it is cruel but I have heard of people having it done that either had to do it or rehome the dog

I know alot of people are against it as I am as well BUT I don't see anything wrong in doing it as you seem to have a good understanding with your yorkie and love your yorkie and I see you've done your research. If I lived in an apartment and that was my problem I would consider it to keep my dog as it's not as bad as some think. I know several show/breeder friends that have had it done for the very same reasons you are explaining. Just because I don't do it and I do live in a house and it's not a problem for me but if the rolls were reversed I would for sure consider it to keep my dog. I know when my friends do it it's only one vocal cord not both and it's done when they go in for a teeth cleaning so that means they are already sedated and can't feel it. While I have several yorkies at home none are debarked and I thankfully have neighbors that don't call or complain when mine get to barking.
I hope this helps in some way.
I might get on the chopping block as well LOL...but rehoming wouldn't be an option for me either in this case.

Donna

Just wondering why your vet will not debark? What are his thoughts and reasoning behind not doing the surgery on a dog?

If I trusted my vet.............

i dont know much about it however you seem like a smart person and if that is the best option so you can keep her, that might be best, me personally feel like you have done everything you can, and you love your dog and she loves you, the surgery seems to me a better option than the trauma to the both of you is she has to be rehomed, but thats just my opinion and im sure most people wont agree with me. There is a cd at barnes and noble that relaxes dogs i got it 4 my dog you may want to try that as a last last resort.

:yeahthat: I agree that you seem like a very intelligent person and knowledgable owner that is really torn over this decision. I wouldn't want to be in your position, but may consider the surgery if the only alternative was to rehome my baby. Good luck to you.

Are there not rental houses available to you? Around here often times you can rent a house for close to the same amount as an apartment.

If moving is not an option, I agree with what Donna posted to you. Normally I would be firmly against debarking, especially as a convenience for the pet owner. But, it does sound like short of moving, you've done everything you can.

I've known of only one other case where I thought debarking was kind of okay. This was an elderly lady with an older poodle, she had since the dog was a pup. The lady was going into a nursing home that would allow her dog but only if the dog never barked. It would have been devastating to separate the owner and dog at that point.

I'm in agreement it should NEVER be for the convenience of a pet owner but in this case I would be for it because rehoming in this case wouldn't be an option for me. I feel you've done everything possible to control the barking and if you have to debark I see nothing wrong with it as long as it's not for convenience.
Donna

I have the calming music too: "Through a Dog's Ear" CD and the driving edition. My boys love these albums along with a couple of others.

Regarding debarking, another important consideration is health. I don't know if this is true or just a scare tactic, but I have read that debarking can cause serious throat problems later in life. Sorry I don't recall the specifics, but MommyofSophie, please research this before making a decision.

I can imagine your frustration because you are between a rock and a hard place. Sorry I don't have any more advice to help you solve this problem.

What about people that are deaf? Their speech isn't taken away they use sign language and dogs communicate in other forms other than barking. I see this woman as doing everything she can to train her yorkie and it's not working. She seems to love her yorkie and why would she give it away? If it were for her convenience and not this type of scenerio I would agree with you. Please don't take this wrong as it's not meant to be that way. What about dogs that become blind? Their other senses become stronger. What about dogs that become deaf? Same thing their other senses are enhightened and become stronger. Same as people in those same scenerios.
She loves her dog and doesn't want to give the yorkie away and it wouldn't be an option for me either.

Just another way of looking at it :)

Donna

As I stated before, I know several show/breeders that have had to have this done and no throat issues and lived to be a ripe old age.

I know you said you put her in the kitchen to remove her from any windows and stuff, but what about a crate? We keep a blanket over our dogs crates except the crate and the only time they bark is when we walk in the door.

Ok I have a question. Have you tried a recording that tells her to be nice like every 30 mins or so?

Is there a device that is bark activated that you could record be nice on?

I do not believe in debarking and most vets do not do it because it is considered in humane. Nor do I believe in the shock collars. Not real happy about he citronella ones either but it is the lesser of the 3 evils. Have you tried the citronella collar? if that did not work I would tend to go for the shock one? Last resort would be the debarking for me.

How about trying the recording, look for a voice activated playing device, then move to the collars....IMHO

It just softens the bark it doesn't take it away, right?

I would have it done before I crated a dog all day or had to rehome. I really don't know much about it but seems like you are doing your research.

I would NEVER use a shock collar!!! Debarking can be done in a very humane way if that is the last resort. I do like the idea of a voice recorder. But if that doesn't work and nothing else works I would debark and by that would be one vocal cord not two because it softens the voice and they can still bark but softer. And rehoming in this case would NEVER be an option.

Donna

I do like the voice recording idea over a shock collar! But debarking can be done in a humane way and it's one vocal cord vs. both and it will soften the bark. But keep in mind the vocal cord can heal itself and the yorkie can bark as loud as before. But I would do it when I took my dogs in for a teeth cleaning since they are already under sedation. Of course this would be only after what this owner has already done and it seems it hasn't worked. I wouldn't want to keep them in a crate all day with a towel over them all day either. While I do put my dogs in their kennels ( 2x4's) while we are gone and hubby comes home for lunch to let them out they aren't covered.

Donna

I've used the citronella spray collar with good success. Personally, I find that the least evil of all the choices.

The "debarking" surgery doesn't stop the behavior, it just muffles the sound.

Have you thought about taking her to a doggy daycare when you are gone?

With doing one vocal cord it softens the bark and doesn't take it away like doing both cords.
I wouldn't cover a crate all day either, as my dogs are in their 2x4 pens while we are gone with the exception of 2 they are never covered up. Their pens are big enough to walk around and play with toys while we are gone to work.

Donna

Have you ever listened to clips of debarked dogs or gotten to know one?

IMO, it is the most annoying, raspy noise and there is no guarantee that the neighbors won't hear it. In fact, they probably will. I got to know a debarked doxen and if I was its neighbor, I wouldn't have been too pleased with the noise. I would've preferred a real bark.

Have you thought about taking her to a doggy daycare while you are gone? (oops sorry - duplicate post)

That is good to hear.

I dont know much about debarking but it seems to me that you want to do what is best for Sophie. just please research as much as possible because this is not something you can reverse. hear is a video of a debarked yorkie.

I don't have much experience at all about this type of operation other than hearing the poor pups after its been done (I knew a person with THREE Sheltie's, dogs which are known to be yappers, and she did it to all of them...very sad however she had a big house on a lot of land which IMO she shouldn't needed the surgery)....

I understand your situation completely since I live in an apartment as well and have had neighbors complain before, its really tough :( I just wonder if you've asked your vet why she doesn't perform this type of surgery....there must be a reason why. If your vet doesn't think the surgery is good for your pup, that might be enough reason not to do it...I would trust your vet.

Does your baby just bark while you're gone during the day or is it while you are at home as well? I was going to say you could have someone come by and play with her periodically while you're gone or take her somewhere where someone can watch her and she can play (I take mine to my dad's house while I'm at work and he loves to play with him). Wish I had more helpful suggestions! The music sounds like a good idea too, I hope you find the best solution for you and your little Sophie, she's a doll!!! :)

LOL that dog has the biggest ears that I have ever seen on a yorkie.

personally I would try the citronella first.

I don't like the idea of debarking, but it would be better than crating her all day.

We neuter dogs for their own good. Is debarking any worse than that?

Wow, you are between a rock and a hard place. I know how scary it is when apartment neighbors are complaining. Sounds like you have tried a lot of different things.

I can think of three things I might try before debarking:
1. doggie daycare
2. dog walker mid-day
3. citronella collar
4. Medication to keep her calm for a few days while you are at work.

(Ok - make that 4 things). I had to give my maltese medication when we moved to another state and I received a complaint that he barked all day. Of course, this was due to adjustment issues and after about 3 days on somekind of doggie valium; he was fine.

I wish you could move because your neighbor doesn't sound all that nice! But understand this may not be in the picture for you.

In your shoes - if all else failed; I would probably have to consider the surgery. I'm so sorry you find yourself in this position.

Sorry! I now see that you have already tried citronella collar and a dog walker!

I have the same situation going on. I am so happy to have a manager who has a toy breed and understands me. I put my dog in a crate to see if it help, and oh my goodness it was worse. I came back and I could hear him in the parking lot. No regular bark either; it sounded more like someone was killing him. And they have told me he barks nonstop until I come home.
My suggestion is to find someone to pet sit. I don't have much money so I use friends to petsit once in awhile. If your little one is trained I'm sure someone will be more than happy to look after her. Can you lock her in the restroom with a Himalayan Chew?
As far as your neighbor, record her dog barking and call the cops on her as well.
I'm not for or against debarking, but it will be my very last option. Good Luck!!

While I don't condone debarking it sounds like in this case and if it were my Sophie and I tried all options available I would probably debark to keep my beloved pet. Debarking really isn't no worse than neutering or spaying the dog it's just not common practice as a spay or neuter would be.
I would NOT hold it against anyone that would debark in this type of scenerio.
Donna