Wow. Propaganda? Not a very well-reasoned consideration of the topic. Also, the dog they showed with all the stitches on its throat had clearly been butchered-- poor baby!! :-( Debarking can be done by going in through the open mouth and sort of hole-punching one of the vocal cords with a laser to minimize any bleeding or scarring. From looking at the scars on that poor dog in the video, it doesn't look like he underwent the same procedure. Also the dog in the beginning was debarked for convenience and then neglected outdoors by backyard breeders-- this is not Sophie's life.

Was the suggestion of a trainer ever put out there? I am thinking a professional in behavior might be a great idea.

I suppose it is just for noise control. They have a lot of dogs so I assume it is just so they don't have to listening to the deafening barking all day.

I agree with Mary, I don't pass judgment. Debarking is something I would never do unless it was absolutely necessary.

Actually, one or two chronic barkers can have influence over a
group/kennel of dogs. The rest of the group may not be barkers but, one or two can set them off and causing the BIG NOISE......

Could you move? There might be someone who need's a roomate in a house...maybe a roomate with dogs. If you could find a house to rent then the barking might be tolerated. Also, are there any doggy day cares around that you could take your baby to?
You say that she'll stop if you say "be nice." I think there are devices that are noise/bark triggered...You could find one and whenever she barks she would hear your voice say "be nice" Hope you find something to help.

I think there have been some extremely thoughtful and informative responses on this thread, and with the exception of only a few posts everyone has stayed very respectful. That is nice to see here for a change...

To the OP, I agree with what many others have said. You are not the typical "convenience" case which I would not support or condone, in this case it is for HER, not for you. A few posts up someone said they didn't understand why the only options at this point were rehome or debark, but it seems that you truly HAVE exhausted next to all other possibilities in this case. It was already mentioned about tail docking...but really, what is the difference? Done by a licensed professional with a laser and done properly there is no pain involved for her, and it will allow her to stay in her home. I can't see how putting her with a stranger and having her stress over that is in ANY way better than her undergoing a painless procedure that she will never remember or understand that there is any difference in the sounds she makes.

As for the comparisons to dogs and children, there is none. They are a different species entirely and have a completely different brain capacity and understanding. Although we do LOVE them like they are our children, they are still animals and in no way the same. A baby would not be left alone, and a baby cries to tell you something is wrong or needed. You wouldn't leave a baby alone in an apartment, and you wouldn't leave a baby to scream because their cries are to signal something. However, leaving a dog by his/herself is another ballgame entirely. Sure, dogs do bark to signal things and tell you what they want and/or need, but they also bark just to do it. A dog can be left alone for several hours with everything that they need: bed, toys, food/water, potty pads, etc. and they will be perfectly fine when you get back home. Not even in the same CATEGORY as a child.

I think that whatever you decide to do will not be a decision taken lightly. I think you have been nothing but responsible and open, and you clearly have Sophie's best interest at heart.

In my situation, living in a house that is not in a subdivision, if I had mine debarked it would be selfish on my behalf. However, that's apples and oranges, as everyone's living situation is different, and you have to consider what is best and what is affordable, while still being able to keep your sanity and keep your baby. I have a couple Biewer girls that are debarked, I did not do it, but they came to me that way already. It does not impair them in any way. When my others bark they join right in, but it is just "muffled" or softer. They have no clue that they are different, nor do they care. They have no scarring or any indication of any trauma. They just make a little less noise. Otherwise they are normal, healthy, and very happy go lucky dogs.

I personally think giving your dog away would be much more devistating to her than a surgery. Maybe you could find her another window for her to sit in tho.......

That's a tough one... just keep researching the surgery.

It is very obvious that Sophie’s Mom is exploring all of here options, and she is trying to make the best decision for Sophie. Sometimes it’s not always so black and white. My husband and I were very upset that Gracie had been debarked, but it is because we tried to protect her from anything that could have harmed her. We were so grateful to have her in our lives, and she was so happy to be with us. I definitely could tell a difference in Gracie from my other two. We absolutely adored our other two girls, and they were special, loving little girls. Ashley was almost 1.5 years and Kiwi was almost 1 when we got Gracie. We had them from the time they were young. Gracie had been with the breeder until she was 6.5 months and had been kept to breed. Since she was a tiny and never grew the way the breeder hoped she would, the breeder gave her to us. Although the breeder loved Gracie a great deal (even though she chose to debark her), Gracie definitely was grateful for everything we did for her. She was old enough to know that her new home was special, and she was definitely one of the most loving and happy dogs I’ve ever known. Gracie’s bark may not have been very loud, but she definitely had a voice. She managed to get everything she ever wanted. If I wasn’t responding fast enough to her when she barked, she hopped into my lap or stood on my head when I was sleeping. As opposed as I am generally to debarking, I can’t say that Gracie was harmed by it. We knew, and it upset us greatly, but I don’t think Gracie knew the difference. She still barked incessantly and was a very well-adjusted little girl. I hated the idea of Gracie being put under anesthesia for it, but we opted to put her under twice a year to have her teeth cleaned because it was necessary for her. I know that’s not quite the same thing because that protected her health, but it still was a concern. I haven’t watched the videos because it would be too upsetting for me to see, but I doubt they represent what would be done by someone careful and trained to do surgery on a small Yorkie. I think if Sophie’s Mom thoroughly checks out the surgeon and her veterinarian is not feeling it will harm Sophie, she can make a decision that she feels will be in Sophie’s best interest. If she weren’t trying to do just that, I don’t think she would have asked a question to this forum about something so controversial. While it upsets me when I hear about dogs being debarked, I don’t think Sophie’s Mom would be considering this if she didn’t think it was the best option for Sophie at this point. It certainly seems that she is doing everything she can to protect her and seems to be doing the best she or anyone else can do for Sophie. Whatever she decides, I believe she will do whatever is best for Sophie because she loves her so much.

What a helpful discussion this has been! Thank you for all of the suggestions! I definitely have some new things to try with Sophie now. :)

Should we cut a person's vocal cords simply because they are loud or talk too much? I disagree very much with the surgery...I don't think it's humane, and it's putting the dog under anesthesia when it isn't necessary for the dog's life. I would never have it done, regardless of how much I had a dog bark. My Joey is a barker, if something scares or angers him, he will bark at it. I typically have to tell him two or three times to get him to be quiet, but he eventually does. He also has very severe separation anxiety, so I'm sure while my husband and I are at work he barks also. We do live in a house now, but before we bought it, we lived in a townhome with him, so we know how apartment life with a barker is. We still wouldn't ever have him debarked.

Thank you for sharing your honest perspective. I'm sure living in a house with Joey makes his barking much less of a problem for everyone, but I hope his separation anxiety eases over time. Maybe it's the move?

I have to agree with Mary...never say never. One would have to walk in the other person's shoes to be able to make any kind of judgement.
I really think Sophie's mom is remarkable!! She's still exploring all her options and she needs to be commended! I applaud her!

Donna

P.S. I'm also amazed that this thread has remained very educational and being discussed in a very adult manner :) Kuddos to all!

Barking Study

i know you said the citronella didnt work, and i think its best to have your girl with you than rehome, who is to say that the new home will tollerate the barking? I also want to suggest what I did with my dog cooper who is a rescue, I have only had a few weeks he doesnt make a peep when im home but when i go out he is crazy barker, I bought the cd it helps,I bought the pheramone collar and plug it not sure it helps but I like the smell, I leave a tshirt I slpt in the night before where he likes to play, I have bought citronella collars, first were way to big the one i have on order is smaller will update when i get it, but I call my house phone from my cell phone put it on speaker and listen when he barks i say no bark, he listens most of the time, i had a trainer say is hard to solve if they dont do it when you are home, and that is my problem, my neighbors dont complain but i am not a fan of barking, my other yorkie only barks if someone comes to the door or a reason to bark. I thought you might find the study interesting. Not that I want to start a whole new topic but did you ask your vet for some ace or valium just to take he edge off? I think thats my next option or some benadryl. I work at home so im not out for long periods of tme but I would rather he didnt bark and go crazy when I leave.

That is so true, I have a couple of barkers here that will set off my whole bunch. Thank goodness we are way out in the country so I don't have to worry about disturbing the neighbors.

No problem - I knew there was a way for me to express my feelings without being rude :) I hope no offense was taken, I didn't mean any. I know that people are different, and so are opinions. Joey has been very anxious since he was a little 12 week old puppy. I was very naive when we bought him from the pet store (I KNOW...terrible!), and I think he was probably a puppy mill dog. I've read that mill dogs have a higher level of anxiety and such. I have tried a lot of things, but he still freaks out whenever we leave. I'm hoping that it gets better over time, but I'm not sure....he's 2 years old. We are constantly working with him, though, so we do have hope :)

I have to say when i read the OP's post i cringed not because of the debarking issue but because i could just imagine the comments that were going to follow. I pleased to say i was shocked that almost everyone responded with kindness because i was NOT expecting that kudos YT'ers

to the OP ide sell my liver to the black market before i parted with my girls ..if you cant tell by that statement im on your side;)

I wish you lived near me, I would dogsit your little Sophie for free in a minute!!! She is a little dollbaby!! She could bark with my whole crew to her hearts content!! I wish you both the best!! Is there maybe an older retired person that you know that would like the companionship of Sophie during the day when you work??

Personally, I could never do the surgery. I really hope some of the new suggestions will work for you or you can move to a more private home.
I do feel for you and the neighbors actually. Two of our three are barkers & if we lived in an apartment, I know there would be complaints!
It can be extremely annoying to hear a dog bark continuously for hours on end!
I know you have tried numerous solutions & I hope you do exhaust all avenues before doing a drastic surgery.
Best of luck!

i find this statement disrespectful. i didn't know that YT was a place where people didn't write thoughtful, informative, respectful responses. :thumbdown

YT is a VERY informative place and people on it are passionate. i can't begin to tell you how much i learned on YT. just because you might disagree with other's opinion on whatever issue doesn't mean they are disrespectful, non-informative, and thoughtless.

I believe what she meant is the whole "tone" of this thread has stayed very kind and thoughtful. I think everyone has been passionate and said what they thought but in a sympathetic and nonjudgmental way.

We all love dogs and probably have heard at some point in our life a dog that barked endlessly -especially outdoor dogs.....I had a neighbor where I live who use to put her Chi's on the back patio where the poor things were in the heat during the summer and never ever stopped barking. I mean - NEVER. My girls always wanted to make a beeline to her apt when on walks so they could 'talk' to the barking dogs....

I felt so bad for them - she'd be home too :mad:

The barking was annoying and I wasn't even close to her place so can't imagine how her neighbors felt but.... my issue when I complained was to the managers office was about her leaving them outside in the Houston summer ... They told me they had numerous complaints and then one day - this woman had moved. Don't know if she was evicted or left on her own but I still think of those dogs out on that hot patio

I can so relate to the OP about barking - I don't have that problem when at work - mine are very quiet when I'm at work because I've ASKED my neighbors - plus my son told me when he lived here they hardly barked -but when I'm home they can be a bit yappy. I think it's being around ME that causes this -

I can't say what I'd do in the same situation. Rehoming is drastic but also - endless barking can get you evicted if not taken care of ....debarking is also drastic :( so .....wishing you all the best in whatever decision you make and I hope you find a solution that works.

i am REALLY surprised that reputable breeders are supportive in debarking dogs...it's not a choice between

1)de-barking sophie

2)rehome shopie

there are OTHER options,

one happy option i can think of is moving.

i don't understand why moving is so easily written off as being something that is impossible to do:confused:, and debarking the dog is a good option when moving is an option. then i guess you should never sell to anyone who lives in an apartment, because they won't move, they'll just debark dog instead.

i can *understand* the reason why a breeder might de-bark a dog if a barker gets a room/house full of dogs to bark non-stop. but i did not know show breeders would de-barked dogs prior to reading this thread. and even though i can hardly talk to my breeder everytime i call her because her dogs all start barking, now i have a lot more respect for her for not debarking the barky ones that get all dogs to start barking.

please educate me if i am misinformed. if debarking is not so bad, why is it outlawed in some states? and i would like information on the benefits of debarking, and the safety of debarking. thanks.

mommyofsophie, i hope you are not offended by my posts. i don't mean to offend. i have no doubt that you are a good mom to sophie, but i really have a problem with de-barking a dog.

if you are willing to share, i would like to know the info. you found about debarking dogs. because you said you found info about how safe the procedure can be.

since you and the reputable breeders on YT are all saying that debarking is not as bad as i am thinking it is. i would like to understand, perhaps i am too extreme and failed to consider some things.

she's in a tough spot. I think people can relate even though many people here live in homes or dont work so they can control the behaviour of their pets - I include myself in that statement until my life changed and had to go back to work fulltime AND move into an apartment from a home after my husband died.

The changes in living conditions and them being alone all day bothered me alot. My girls still haven't fully adjusted to apartment living after having the freedom of a yard. They just sit at the door all day waiting for me but are very quiet (as I said earlier - I've asked my neighbors and all have said they never hear them bark)

So ...I can easily relate to her problem....even though I don't have this issue - I don't know what I'd do if I did. :(

It's kind of a no win situation unless she moves and for many - that just isn't an option.

This thread is so long I can't remember if you have other pets - is this an 'only' dog ?

I feel so bad for you. I can feel that you are agonizing over this. I don't know anything about this surgery so I have no advice in that respect. I also don't know what I would do in your situation.
Perhaps someone on YT could start a thread of willing dogsitters in different areas of your country. Someone mentioned here that if they lived closer to you they would dogsit. Maybe there is someone close to you.
Whatever decision you make I am sure will be well informed. Best wishes.

Wow, this is a tough decision to make...maybe before getting her debarked, try borrowing a friends dog that is good with small dogs and quiet and see if that keeps her quiet during the day. If so you can always look into adopting another dog to keep her entertained...however this could easily backfire and you wind up with 2 barking dogs. If you do have to "de-bark/soften" go with the soften of the bark, that way she still has the option to alert you in case she hears anything that you might not...
Again, this is difficult and I'm sorry you are put in this situation...as a professor is it possible for you to bring her to work, have her in a pen behind your desk or in your locked office? (long shot, but just trying to come up with things that maybe you haven't thought about yet...)

I agree!! I just read through this whole thread. No I didnt see any rude posts at all on this thread. Just some that didnt agree with debarking and gave an alternative solution. I dont know why that is considered rude

Ok now I consider myself a reputable breeder and I am against debarking at all costs. I feel that there are too many other options not attempted...trainer, collars, voice prompts, moving, finding an older person or stay at home doggy family to watch over her, or last resort rehoming. I have seen debarking that was done in the 80s and 90s while a vet tech and I am completely against it. I feel that it is outlawed in states because it is inhumane. But that is my opinion and I do feel for the OP as she is in a hard place. I hope she makes the right decision by her Sophie.

No offense intended and sorry to go OT but, I took it that MaDeDo's post only meant that it is nice to see a *controversial topic* be discussed on YT without disrespectful/rude posts. I am aware most of the threads/posts on YT are respectful, kind, thoughtful, informative and even fun but, when it comes to controversial topics things in the past have had a way of turning ugly.....it's refreshing to see this thread be different.:)