Originally Posted by jencar98 (Post 3216831)

No offense intended and sorry to go OT but, I took it that MaDeDo's post only meant that it is nice to see a *controversial topic* be discussed on YT without disrespectful/rude posts. I am aware most of the threads/posts on YT are respectful, kind, thoughtful, informative and even fun but, when it comes to controversial topics things in the past have had a way of turning ugly.....it's refreshing to see this thread be different.:)

Originally Posted by mommyofsophie (Post 3216188)

Britster, I always love your baby's undocked tail! Yes, I did know that a pet would cost money for medical, etc. I've had dogs since I was a child and have never had a barking problem like this on my hands. I live in Ann Arbor, MI, which is the hometown of the University of Michigan. The cost of living is quite high here due to the university. I checked into doggy daycare in 3 places (2 private and also at PetSmart... which would really have been a last resort!), but the price range was all around $700 per month for 5 days/week of doggy daycare. I did not anticipate that cost. As for choosing a breed carefully: I agree wholeheartedly! Sophie was a gift from my extended family chipped in on as a gift for completing my doctoral program. Do I love her, absolutely! Would I have chosen a Yorkie? Probably not. I could have said no to the gift, but I fell in love with her immediately. :-)

Originally Posted by mommyofsophie (Post 3216230)

I actually get nauseated because I get so stressed out about it. :-( And I have this irrational fear that the snotty neighbor (who has been incredibly hateful about all of this) is going to leave poison on the ground for Sophie or something. I know, irrational, but I'm worried. Last night I was online reading about debarking risks/potential benefits and I came across a Sheltie rescue site that had photos of dogs that had been terrorized by neighbors for their barking. One dog had oven cleaner sprayed down his throat (causing massive internal damage and loss of his teeth). Another had its snout wrapped shut with barbed wire! Another had its throat slit (luckily it survived). I shouldn't have looked at that site! I've asked to move locations within my apt. complex and I'm looking into home rentals, but the barking will go with Sophie at this point.

Originally Posted by yorkielady06 (Post 3216830)

Ok now I consider myself a reputable breeder and I am against debarking at all costs. I feel that there are too many other options not attempted...trainer, collars, voice prompts, moving, finding an older person or stay at home doggy family to watch over her, or last resort rehoming. I have seen debarking that was done in the 80s and 90s while a vet tech and I am completely against it. I feel that it is outlawed in states because it is inhumane. But that is my opinion and I do feel for the OP as she is in a hard place. I hope she makes the right decision by her Sophie.

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie (Post 3217223)

i would be very scared and worried as well if i were you. i hope that the home rental is a possibility for you. i really think it can work out for you and sophie. sure, the barking will go with shopie and you to the new living place. but i just think that the source of all the stress for you comes from your neighbor complaining NOT sophie or her barking. even if you debarked shopie, will that make the worry about your neighbor doing something to sophie go away? i think you and sophie would both feel less stressed if you can move to a house.

at the very least, moving will give you more time to make a rational choice on whether or not you really want to debark sophie. i feel that with the stress and worry about your neighbors calling the police and complaining will make it hard to be completely rational and calm about making the best choice you can for you and sophie. i still want to say that this living arrangement is a temp./reversible situation for you and sophie, while debarking is not. you might feel sad to hear her new "voice" once she is debarked. i love milu's voice, and i am sure i would cry if i can never hear her true bark again.

Originally Posted by Roccosmommy (Post 3217163)

Again, I'm so sorry you have to be going through this. Can you bear one more suggestion? Since you live in a university city, what about finding a college student (or two or three) that would be able to pet sit during the day? They could always use extra money, and you could probably offer them an amount affordable to you. The extra perk for them is to have a quiet apartment during the day to study, while also making money just by puppy sitting your sweet little baby! Just a thought...

Originally Posted by TwoforFun (Post 3218356)

2) do keep her in smaller area, like you've tried (like kitchen or whatever) bc dogs can feel more secure when they have a smaller area to guard


In her case I don't think this will help. My dog went bananas and made a worse riot, for hours. I even think he had phobia of being enclosed. I know what she is going through and the best option will be to move to a corner apt if a house is out of the question. Most dogs quiet down after an hour or two but not my dog. I feel so bad you have to go through this since I know how stressful it is. Talk to the leasing office and see if they can tranfer you to a corner apt. Are they any townhomes, some of them are not cling wall to wall.

This might be an awful solution but I think it might be better than debarking. How about those things that cover their mouth. Don't remember the name of it. But it's normally put so they won't bite. One other thing, I used to sneak out of the house while she was entertain with a chew (I used the Himalayan one). It worked at times.

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie (Post 3216727)

i am REALLY surprised that reputable breeders are supportive in debarking dogs...it's not a choice between

1)de-barking sophie

2)rehome shopie

there are OTHER options,

one happy option i can think of is moving.

i don't understand why moving is so easily written off as being something that is impossible to do:confused:, and debarking the dog is a good option when moving is an option. then i guess you should never sell to anyone who lives in an apartment, because they won't move, they'll just debark dog instead.

i can *understand* the reason why a breeder might de-bark a dog if a barker gets a room/house full of dogs to bark non-stop. but i did not know show breeders would de-barked dogs prior to reading this thread. and even though i can hardly talk to my breeder everytime i call her because her dogs all start barking, now i have a lot more respect for her for not debarking the barky ones that get all dogs to start barking.

please educate me if i am misinformed. if debarking is not so bad, why is it outlawed in some states? and i would like information on the benefits of debarking, and the safety of debarking. thanks.

Originally Posted by Roccosmommy (Post 3217163)

Again, I'm so sorry you have to be going through this. Can you bear one more suggestion? Since you live in a university city, what about finding a college student (or two or three) that would be able to pet sit during the day? They could always use extra money, and you could probably offer them an amount affordable to you. The extra perk for them is to have a quiet apartment during the day to study, while also making money just by puppy sitting your sweet little baby! Just a thought...

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3218466)

Since your dog stops barking when you're home, and the problem is when you aren't at home, I would think anxiety might be the issue, and you really need to address this because barking is just a symptom.

Originally Posted by Rhetts_mama (Post 3218420)

Are you talking about a muzzle? They don't stop barking, though they do limit the amount a mouth can be opened (even the soft ones). And they should ONLY be used while a dog is being directly supervised. Dogs can over heat quickly with them on because they have difficulties panting while wearing them. Even the manufacturers recommend they not be used for more than 20 minutes at a time.

Originally Posted by peanut (Post 3218803)

I hope you can figure out some reasonable solution, some dogs are harder to train than others. I have a GSD that has been in training serveral times, and somethings its like pulling teeth with him, barking can sometimes be a problem with him, some days he does good, others not. Bottom line you have to do whats best for you and your baby. You have to live with the situation, the rest of us don't. I know how hard it is to get into rental homes with pets. I love my babies, but we have 3 rental homes, and don't allow inside pets, due to some in the past destroying the houses. Rental homes are a investment, and cost to much to have to remodel after every renter leaves. You would be surprized what a little cat or dog can do. Some people just don't care, and let them do whatever. Thats why so many don't do it. As far as muzzling or drugs, to me that is cruel for the dog. I would hate to give my dog medicine all the time, no telling what the long term effects would be on a tiny dog. I hope you find something that works best for you. Sending hugs, I can't imagine how hard this is for you. I would do anything I had to if it was my baby.

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985 (Post 3218813)

Isn't that why property owners charge a non-refundable pet deposit? I've seen the deposit vary by the size of the house. The bigger the house, the more rooms they get into, the more damage they can potentially cause. It's a one time fee and property owners can still deduct from a renters deposit if a pet deposit doesn't cover it. At least that's my understanding. It's one of the prices we pay as pet owners. Usually, on a rental house, pets are allowed. In apts it's harder to find pet friendly housing due to the liability on the owner and the close quarters people share.

My dad has a house he rents out too. That's what we've done in the past, and as long as we're clear on the "pet terms" and people agree to it, it hasn't been a problem. Most of the remodeling we've done in the past gets down regardless of whether or not a person has pets. We paint, replace carpets, check everything electrical, all the pipes are checked, and we clean out what the past renter has left behind. We've had worse tenants without pets than the ones that have pets.

Originally Posted by peanut (Post 3218822)

We paint and replace the carpet(if in the house) and have everything inspected to make sure in proper working condition. I am talking about door frames, chewed up sheetrock, cabinets, hardwood floors and having to replace the sub floor,you can't get out cat pee. You are talking thousand of dollars, not 700 or 800 deposit. Thats why its harder to get houses to rent in our area.

Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985 (Post 3218860)

I wasn't talking about that low of a sum either. The deposit is equal to that of one months rent (that's what we do) and for others that I have seen, it is two months rent. That's why it's easier, at least here it's easier, to find rental homes that are open to the idea of having inside pets. I'm not trying to argue with you, just stating that different owners have different guidelines. For some the two months rent, which if we use my dad's house as an example would be a deposit of around $2500, and that is the one that damages get deducted from. On top of that, again, this depends on the owner, is another $800 up to $1000 for a pet deposit. For a grand total of $3500 for an owner to tap into to fix their house. Yes, it's not cheap, but I'm talking about California where living expenses are higher. And for the record, no, not all property owners here charge that much. My dad sure doesn't.

The numbers sound steep, but wouldn't the debarking surgery also cost an arm and a leg? (I'm assuming here and the OP can correct me on that) For me, it would be worth while to put the money of a debarking surgery into a good deposit at a new place, a house, that allows pets.

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie (Post 3216299)

i have absolutely no idea why this is a situation where the ONLY option available is

1) de-bark
2) re-home

why is everyone saying those are the only options????

i don't have time to read this thread today, i will take a look tomorrow to see what i missed and why some people are saying re-home and de-bark are the only options available.

to the OP. i am not trying to judge you. (if you felt that i was judging you i am sorry) i feel very bad for you that you have to make a decision like this. and honestly i am very scared that sophie might get debarked. but yes, people WILL judge you if you debark your dog, it's human nature to judge, and people have good reasons to be against de-barking dogs. i dont' think you are a bad owner, if you were, you wouldn't make a thread to ask about it, you would have just done it.

best of luck to you in your search for a rental house. i know this is very hard on you right now with all the stress about your neighbor complaining, but it's not the end of the world, it's temporary. if you can, communicate with them, let them know you are working on resolving the problem. if i were your neighbor, and you told me that you are contemplating debarking your dog. i would tell you i am sorry i complained, i didn't mean to stress you out so much that you consider debarking your dog. hope your neighbor is understanding and will cut you a break. (most people are understanding i think if you communicate with them)

Originally Posted by MadDeDo (Post 3216387)

As for the comparisons to dogs and children, there is none. They are a different species entirely and have a completely different brain capacity and understanding. Although we do LOVE them like they are our children, they are still animals and in no way the same. A baby would not be left alone, and a baby cries to tell you something is wrong or needed. You wouldn't leave a baby alone in an apartment, and you wouldn't leave a baby to scream because their cries are to signal something. However, leaving a dog by his/herself is another ballgame entirely. Sure, dogs do bark to signal things and tell you what they want and/or need, but they also bark just to do it. A dog can be left alone for several hours with everything that they need: bed, toys, food/water, potty pads, etc. and they will be perfectly fine when you get back home. Not even in the same CATEGORY as a child.

Originally Posted by liz n tika (Post 3216423)

I personally think giving your dog away would be much more devistating to her than a surgery. Maybe you could find her another window for her to sit in tho.......

That's a tough one... just keep researching the surgery.

Originally Posted by YorkieChick1 (Post 3216673)

I wish you lived near me, I would dogsit your little Sophie for free in a minute!!! She is a little dollbaby!! She could bark with my whole crew to her hearts content!! I wish you both the best!! Is there maybe an older retired person that you know that would like the companionship of Sophie during the day when you work??

Originally Posted by red98vett (Post 3216735)

she's in a tough spot. I think people can relate even though many people here live in homes or dont work so they can control the behaviour of their pets - I include myself in that statement until my life changed and had to go back to work fulltime AND move into an apartment from a home after my husband died.

The changes in living conditions and them being alone all day bothered me alot. My girls still haven't fully adjusted to apartment living after having the freedom of a yard. They just sit at the door all day waiting for me but are very quiet (as I said earlier - I've asked my neighbors and all have said they never hear them bark)

Originally Posted by Deuce (Post 3216756)

Wow, this is a tough decision to make...maybe before getting her debarked, try borrowing a friends dog that is good with small dogs and quiet and see if that keeps her quiet during the day. If so you can always look into adopting another dog to keep her entertained...however this could easily backfire and you wind up with 2 barking dogs. If you do have to "de-bark/soften" go with the soften of the bark, that way she still has the option to alert you in case she hears anything that you might not...
Again, this is difficult and I'm sorry you are put in this situation...as a professor is it possible for you to bring her to work, have her in a pen behind your desk or in your locked office? (long shot, but just trying to come up with things that maybe you haven't thought about yet...)

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie (Post 3216727)

i am REALLY surprised that reputable breeders are supportive in debarking dogs...it's not a choice between

1)de-barking sophie

2)rehome shopie

there are OTHER options,

one happy option i can think of is moving.

i don't understand why moving is so easily written off as being something that is impossible to do:confused:, and debarking the dog is a good option when moving is an option. then i guess you should never sell to anyone who lives in an apartment, because they won't move, they'll just debark dog instead.

Originally Posted by mommyofsophie (Post 3223089)

This has turned out to be the trick!!! (I think-- fingers are crossed.) I closed the door to my home office, which is off the kitchen where Sophie's gated in during the day. This way, Sophie can have her bed in the kitchen, food, water, potty pad, etc., but she can't see out a window. The snotty neighbor won't talk to me still, but she did tell my apt. manager that for the last week Sophie's barking has been almost nonexistent when I'm gone during the day. I think that with the radio left on to NPR and no window access, outdoor sounds and sights don't get Sophie all excited and she's keeping quiet. I pray, pray, PRAY that this isn't just temporary, but that it's the solution to our problem. :woof: If it doesn't work, I'll contact a professional trainer. My vet gave me a referral for a woman in my area who just earned her Ph.D. in animal behavior and is looking to establish herself with clients... meaning, she won't charge me a fortune yet, lol.

I'm going ahead with Sophie's spay surgery tomorrow. (She's 16 mos, but I waited at the advice of my vet because she was underweight. Now she's holding steady at 2 1/2 lbs.) Tomorrow she'll also get a couple teeth pulled and be micro-chipped, but I am NOT having her bark softened.



I can't thank everyone here enough for your opinions, perspectives, and suggestions. What an amazing community!! :2hearts2: