Defamation, dishonesty and untruths

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

While the subject is a pups health, the issue is more with breeding practices. Or rather breeder's responsibilities.

but if the pups health is not diagnosed genetic how can a breeder be responsible? I thought that was what the dispute was over the seizures so what is the diagnosis as i have asked a few times and have not seen an answer unless I missed it?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dwerten

but if the pups health is not diagnosed genetic how can a breeder be responsible? I thought that was what the dispute was over the seizures so what is the diagnosis?

Not sure if you read this entire thread. Nothing makes sense......it's more on she said, she said........Appears pup is alive and doing well.....but, other things have come into play and it's clear as mud.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

Not sure if you read this entire thread. Nothing makes sense......it's more on she said, she said........Appears pup is alive and doing well.....but, other things have come into play and it's clear as mud.

yes I have read it in it's entirety and still have not seen anyone post the diagnosis and a few others asked if dog is still on anti-seizure meds yet no response on this. There are some real clear health issues that are genetic in regards to seizures and some not so clear. I am not on either side just want to know why this dog was seizing to better understand the dispute

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dwerten

yes I have read it in it's entirety and still have not seen anyone post the diagnosis and a few others asked if dog is still on anti-seizure meds yet no response on this. There are some real clear health issues that are genetic in regards to seizures and some not so clear. I am not on either side just want to know why this dog was seizing to better understand the dispute

As I said, no clear or straight answers from either side.....don't think we'll get at the bottom of it. One says pup is fine the other says no......Without out a trial and being there in the room and seeing the pup......I just think it's about airing dirty laundry.....too bad, because it should be about the pup.

[dwerten]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

As I said, no clear or straight answers from either side.....don't think we'll get at the bottom of it. One says pup is fine the other says no......Without out a trial and being there in the room and seeing the pup......I just think it's about airing dirty laundry.....too bad, because it should be about the pup.

I agree - sad as it should be about the pup and the facts of what is the true cause of those seizures and whether the dog was bred or not and if other dogs are being affected - everything is so unclear - Just glad the pup is doing well now

[MaddiesMommie]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Whew

Eh, I really wasn't talking about this specific instance when I originally commented. I just meant generally, in response to some of the comments regarding the absurdity breeder paying the bill without the dog being returned...

Off topic, or actually more, back ON topic... I see where the buyer/Yorkiegirl seems to have responded to this same person already in one of those other threads. What I found distrubing, is that she states how horrible the conditions at the breeders house were. Sooo....if that is the case, then WHY one Earth would you buy a dog from them to begin with? Especially one you had intended on breeding? And if the conditions are so questionable, why would it come as a surprise if you ended up with a sick dog?

It IS wierd, because all this seems to have been hashed out before between these two here on YT. So why is it being brought up again?

My thoughts exactly! I read the description of the living conditions of these dogs and was shocked a pup was purchased, much less for breeding

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Mardelin

A reputable breeder would work with the vet, new pup owner to get at the bottom of the problem. If it is diagnosed as a genetic defect, a reputable/responsible breeder would refund the pet fee and let the owner keep the pup. The refund is to assist in the medical care of the pup, that would be a reputable breeders main priority and standing behind ones dogs. Not the money.

But how can a breeder work with the vet when the buyer will not provide vet information, vet reports or any document on what's going on? You'd think when the lawyer sent a letter demanding money returned, he'd also supply vet bill with diagnosis to show the breeder?

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by BaxtersMommy

This thread has gone entirely too long. I am sick of seeing it at the top.

Unless you've been publicly and/or privately defamed, than you may not understand why some people have come to YT to defend themselves, including myself speaking my piece in this thread: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...ould-i-do.html

I love and take great pride in my dogs and I have worked hard to build my reputation not only as a breeder but as an owner and researcher of colorful yorkies. It's obvious from several replies from friends of my buyer, that she has told more people about the situation, than what I was led to believe by her. If her threat to continue "telling everyone" is true, than I have no option other than to protect myself like the OP of this thread has tried to protect herself by telling her side of the story. It just gets to the point where enough is enough and it's time to put every thing on the table, in plain view, for all to see. This has been mentally and emotionally draining, as well as, an etremely frustrating 14 months for me - the OP has dealt with hers for 5 years.

I've spoken in depth with the OP and have gotten her OK to post here because I think it's important to point out some very strange coincidences between this thread and the thread I started last week. As I read this thread when it began, it was like Deja vu.

Both buyers dogs began having seizures/tremors when the buyers were looking to buy a new dog (third instance with my buyer - 1 dog completely unrelated).
Both buyers would not provide vet reports or the phone numbers to the new owners of dog with seizure/tremor.
Both buyers say that the problem is a hereditary problem but both go on to breed these same "defective" lines or dogs.
Both buyers have similar writing styles, using similar phrases and terms in their posts and emails (but that's a thread in itself).
Both my buyer and the OP's buyer are president and vice president of the same club.

To get an idea of the intimidating and threatening emails I've received from my buyer, below is one of the last ones. If my buyer says these things to me, I'm sure what she's saying to others is equally bad, in fact I have emails that she wrote to a friend that convey the same type of message. If anyone has heard negative things about me concerning this story, I'd appreciate knowing what was said and by whom, I'm sure the OP would appreciate the same courtesy.

Email dated dated 6/7/10
But it does show me what kind of breeder you are that you keep breeding those dogs without care and don't even care about how pups from Your line are having these. If you had any morals about you you would have refunded some of my money, but then again you are not that good of a person to try to make amends for something you created in the first place. You don't even care about all the heartache you have caused. What you do to take care of a problem is what your reputation is built on. When you do nothing, pretty soon your reputation is zilch.

I will be telling everyone I talk to about your dogs, I have the videos to back up the line of Pinehaven dogs with tremors. All members of our club get warnings of bad breeders and the proof of them. We have 61 members and word of mouth gets around pretty fast. It doesnt take long for people to find out you don't stand behind your dogs.

No, I wont give the name of the ladies (who bought the pup), but the vets report is hereditary idiopathic head tremors. I am refunding their money. Good luck in selling your problems to someone else.

(note: for those who haven't read my story, my buyer could have received a full refund on her pup, she was offered an exchange puppy and she was offered 1000.00 back if she spayed her dog - she choose none of the above)

I'm not making accusations here, just saying the stories seem so oddly similar. Obviously something seems to have been going on with the pups but for both buyers to not disclose vet reports or other pertinent information that could help solve the mystery, yet still expect the breeders to refund all or a portion of their money, IMHO, is extremely unreasonable and things just don't seem to add up right.

[dwerten]

wow - sad

I again do not know much about breeding but I have a dog with issues - she has LP4, mvd, hypothyroid and atopic dermatitis. I have probably spent more than was spent on the seizures trying to get her comfortable as the allergies are the biggest issue. She is limited AKC. It all started at 6 mos of age with allergies after puppy shots. The breeder did tell me she was an accident and that she had a dog in her line die of rabies vaccination and that she was a sick little pup in the beginning and almost did not make it. Of course I was a brand new pet owner and had no clue what all that meant lol but now I do. I contacted her when it all started spinning out of control and she stated she had never had a problem with allergies in her line etc. Due to that puppy dying of rabies vaccine I have to believe her line had poor immune systems and dd being an accident and the fact that my vet said she was inbred after reading her papers the poor immune system made sense. I paid $1300 for Dee Dee as well. I never bothered breeder after it all started after that first email where she denied it in her lines. I never knew about puppy lemon laws and never read the contract real close as again a first time pet owner.

Having gone through this I find this thread interesting.

I just know for me I would have put together a package of all the documentation from the vet diagnosing the pup and proof that this was genetic and not something else that triggered it. I would have overnighted the package with a signature required along with the health contract hilighted in reference to health guarantee for genetics. I would not have waited for phone calls. In doing this the breeder could take that information to her vet and they could review it together and decide on refund. Also you have proof the breeder had the documentation by signing for it.

What scares me is some say if the person returns the puppy to the breeder that some breeders just put these dogs down - is this true? This is why some people do not want to return a puppy that is ill as they grow attached to it and are fearful of this too. I personally would have just wanted my $1300 back so i could pay for the vet bills with it. I never even asked though as I have the money and just figured what is the point as I did not do my homework so I am partly to blame for that. Now had I done my homework then I would have pursued it more if I felt strongly and vet did that it was genetic based as vet care is very expensive for sick dogs. I think the breeder and owner should work together to get that dog the best care and be a team not fighting one another.

The thing to remember is just like when you have a baby and there are no guarantees the same goes with dogs. The thing is you cannot inbreed humans for a reason and why I have a problem with inbreeding of dogs so if this is done then the breeder needs to realize there can be some consequences to this which is health problems and be willing to step up when this happens.

This topic hits home for me as I have an inbred akc dog with health issues and I love my little girl but it has been a difficult 6 years taking care of her. The money part is the easy part for us but the emotional part is the hard part as when she is uncomfortable and itchy we are too as we care deeply for her and why i try my best to get her the best specialist but not everyone can afford it so then they have the emotional pain and the financial drain which is two times the pain.

[animal1]

I would like to point out some things, which is why I am here. Yes, I am a long time member and don't have many post. Does that make me bad? Over and over I have read how people fear this forum - they won't post on here because of a few people who "think" they run this forum, when the ones who really run this forum is administration. This is a public forum, I or anyone has a right to be a member. If I choose to post a million post or just a few that is my choice. But I will tell you, I will be posting on this forum just like everyone else in the future, the only difference though, is I will not be attacking someone like some choose to do on here. I choose to spread a lot of love and happiness and true compassion here. It surprises me the people who post comments about someone they absolutely know nothing about, or that they know this or that, when in reality they really don't. For someone to post negativity about my feelings, I don' know of anyone on here who has walked a mile in my shoes. So time and again I have seen many to cast judgement on someone without knowing both sides.

There are always two sides to a story and I came here to point out some recent events that have come about concerning some very untrue things that have been written about me on here.

In this post,

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/55236-post1.html

This person states that money paid she is now given a 5 generation pedigree. Not at all true, she was given the 5 generation pedigree and told up front before money paid. Also in the post she states little Scooter will now need medicine and testing the rest of his life.

In this post,

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/248448-post19.html

Everyone on this forum is now told 6 months later in this own persons words that Scooters dog food is changed and the seizures stopped in 3-4 days. Why was the earlier post above made by this person then when she very well knew in January when Scooters seizures started that they ended in 3-4 days with a change of dog food? Not what she told everyone in her earlier post on here, she stated he needed a lifetime of medication and monitoring.

I am here to tell you that the conditions this person speaks of at my home are yet more of this persons untruths about me. My little dogs are very loved and were not in the conditions as she states. This woman contacted me almost 2 months later wanting another puppy after she purchased Scooter. I have an email I would like to share with everyone that proves what I am saying. Why does she state in this thread I have started here, to remove her email?

ANGELIC CANINES |

Why so everyone can't see for themselves that she used this forum for the wrong purposes and did not tell people the truth. It recently came to my attention that this person is now breeding dogs that carry the same line as Scooter in their pedigree as I have pointed out in this thread. If she felt something was genetically wrong with Scooter why is she breeding dogs with his lines in there line? Again as I have shown in this thread why did this person come on this forum and state the things she has and then turn around in October and state what she told everyone earlier was not true. Why on earth did she write such horrible stories then?

This forum was used for the wrong reasons by this person as I have pointed out yet again. Is it right for someone to come on here and make bad statements against some one and months later come to find out the statements made by that person are untrue as I am trying to point out here? I am trying to point out statements made about me are not true by this person.

I do pray little Scooter has a very loving home and is doing well.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by MaddiesMommie

My thoughts exactly! I read the description of the living conditions of these dogs and was shocked a pup was purchased, much less for breeding

Because she was new to breeding and stupid and didn't know anything about puppy mills at the time. (her words, not mine before anyone jumps on me saying I called someone stupid)

So, sounds to me like that is partially where the problem started and something you would have to take responsibility for. It happens, but you have to deal with the consequences and realize that your unpreparedness got you into that position to begin with. Again, doesn't make the breeder's actions morally right, but it's something that possibly could have been avoided.

(this is more just generally speaking, not really related to just this instance)

[BamaFan121s]

Ah I see Sue. The part you play in all of this make a little more sense now. Because it seemed pretty apparent from the start of the thread that you were somehow involved or connected to this situation somehow.

Still a bit unclear though. So are you saying that you think these two buyers, the one complaining about this breeder (YorkieGirl2) and the one that made the claims against you are the same person, or friends, or working together or something? If the similarites you point out are true, then that would be a very big coincidence and very interesting indeed! Not sure I fully understand the connection though...so forgive me if I've gotten it wrong.

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

But how can a breeder work with the vet when the buyer will not provide vet information, vet reports or any document on what's going on? You'd think when the lawyer sent a letter demanding money returned, he'd also supply vet bill with diagnosis to show the breeder?

There is a lot of what ifs in this whole thread. But, what really speaks loud and clear, is the buyer didn't do their homework and the breeder's story is clear as mud. There is a away to circumvent a problem such as this.....Don't buy or don't sell to people you haven't built a relationship with. Don't ship across the country where you are unable to keep track of your puppies and their new owners.

[dwerten]

Wow

I feel if you sit back long enough the truth eventually comes out as people cannot cover up lies for very long as lies are hard to always remember so the person is always trying to remember the lie but you can always remember the truth. Maybe the truth is all starting to unfold and took years to do so.

Do you have pictures of your kennel? Post those so that can be proved wrong.

I really hope you two can come to a resolution and the truth is known to both sides so you both can move on as this is obviously eating at both of you and very sad as anger and resentment can affect your health and that is not good for either of you.

It sounds like this pup is doing well now but I still want to know the true diagnosis and if genetic?

[Mardelin]

Originally Posted by dwerten

Wow

I feel if you sit back long enough the truth eventually comes out as people cannot cover up lies for very long as lies are hard to always remember so the person is always trying to remember the lie but you can always remember the truth. Maybe the truth is all starting to unfold and took years to do so.

Do you have pictures of your kennel? Post those so that can be proved wrong.

I really hope you two can come to a resolution and the truth is known to both sides so you both can move on as this is obviously eating at both of you and very sad as anger and resentment can affect your health and that is not good for either of you.

It sounds like this pup is doing well now but I still want to know the true diagnosis and if genetic?

There is no way the truth will be known to us, unless we are right there. Anyone can say anything on the internet, post whatever they want; pics, etcl.

What it boils down to, that situations like this is educating others.