Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 3136636)

I think that's a great idea, Sue. I always appreciate your educational posts in these heated threads. You keep your cool and make a compelling argument for partis with pictures and history to back up your statements.

As I said before, I think those that defend parti's with wild accusations and conspiracy theories hurt the cause more than help it.

Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 3136688)

This is what is posted on the YTCA website:
Parti-Color Yorkshire Terriers?
Do not be fooled into buying one of these dogs. Now that Designer Dogs are the rage, the “new” Parti-Color Yorkie is certain to draw attention. While we have had problems in the past with “rare gold” Yorkshire Terriers being advertised, the parti-color is a new one! While some breeds have an occasional mismark and some breeds do have a gene for a white dog, we do not. Had there been a problem with white markings, piebald dogs, or white dogs, it would have been addressed in our Standard. Due to unscrupulous breeders advertising parti-colored Yorkshire Terriers at premium prices, our members voted unanimously at our annual meeting to add a disqualification for these and other off colored dogs.
The AKC Breed Standard and YTCA Code of Ethics do not recognize any other color dogs than noted above. This includes all gold, born blue, liver also known as red or chocolate), and parti-colors. One of the reasons for avoiding breeding "off-colored" Yorkies is because it could be a genetic defect
that may affect the dog's health. Some health problems can include, but aren't limited to, severe skin problems, allergies, total hair loss and in some cases long-term illness and/or death.
******
So then after reading the above then it would be alright for Parti/Biewer Breeders to start saying YTCA members are liars and do not care about their dogs because they repeatedly bred them knowing LS was in the lines and didn't care because winning in the show ring is/was everything? How about dogs repeatedly bred with LP. Many of these top show breeders de-bark their dogs, many of these show breeders dogs never touch grass/ground until their show days are over. Or that some of the top dogs have been sold for over $10,000? Show me the proof where the colors of the dog (except for the blue born) could kill a dog...This is wrong and is just plain scare tactics. Designer Dogs???? These dogs had pedigree's from the Kennel Club of the UK.
Where is the education? Where is the possibilities...even they are putting down what Joan Gordon has said about the Parti's. She had Parti's in her lines. How dare they say these are all unscrupulous breeders when breeders have tried to do what is right with the Parti's and get them into the show ring and geez guess who won't allow them. I would love to know what the YTCA thought of Raymond Antonucci (Parquin lines) because he didn't have a problem walking into a show ring with his Parti Yorkies. If he was so disreputable why did YTCA breeders seek out his lines and used him to show their show dogs?
And frankly the only breeder/club/website that has provided proof of any kind is THE PARTI YORKSHIRE TERRIER CLUB - Home. She bought and paid for studbooks, she bought and paid for old books and numerous other things and has posted it on the website...I see no proof on the YTCA website what so ever but I see people dictating and trying to scare people without any proof....just opinions....nothing more.
A final thought:
Do you really think Nelson Mandela** wants to create a website celebrating his freedom and liberation and release. Should he thank those who always pushed for his freedom and rights? Or thank those who forever wanted to keep him suppressed, hidden, erased?

** South African anti-apartheid activist. The South African courts convicted him on charges of sabotage, as well as other alleged crimes committed while he led the movement against apartheid. Mandela served 27 years in prison; Mandela has received more than 250 awards over four decades, most notably the 1993 Nobel Peace Prize. He was the first South African president to be elected in a fully representative democratic election

Originally Posted by bjh (Post 3136724)

I had no idea the YTCA had that on their website. I can see why parti breeders would be upset. Any yorkie can have health problems if not bred and cared for properly. Even when breeding champion to champion problems can occur.

Originally Posted by chachi (Post 3136739)

I wonder if they included the part about health problems because of the blue borns and the health problems they can have. Anyway I can see why Parti breeders would be upset by those statements

Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 3136688)

And frankly the only breeder/club/website that has provided proof of any kind is THE PARTI YORKSHIRE TERRIER CLUB - Home. She bought and paid for studbooks, she bought and paid for old books and numerous other things and has posted it on the website...I see no proof on the YTCA website what so ever but I see people dictating and trying to scare people without any proof....just opinions....nothing more.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3136751)

I'm surprised you didn't know it was on their website, but that's exactly why I want the link posted. People aren't aware of the mother clubs beliefs on this. This is about those breeders who claim a fault is a plus, and charge more for it. I would have no problems with Parti breeders who charged pet prices for their dogs, however by charging more, it shows me they are breeding for profit.

Also since all the other links contain their version of the history of the Yorkshire terrier, the leading experts on the breed should be included. Whether you like it or not, the YTCA is the leading authority on the Yorkshire terrier.

Originally Posted by bjh (Post 3136724)

I had no idea the YTCA had that on their website. I can see why parti breeders would be upset. Any yorkie can have health problems if not bred and cared for properly. Even when breeding champion to champion problems can occur.

Originally Posted by Pinehaven (Post 3136763)

Maybe it was an oversite but I do have to disagree with your statement "that the only breeder/club/website that has provided proof of any kind is the Parti Yorkshire Terrier Club." The Colorful Yorkshire Terrier Club was started in August 2008, solely for the purpose of educating people about color genetics in the Yorkshire Terriers and as a safe and friendly place for colorful yorkie breeders to come together. I've tried to acknowledge the Parti Yorkshire terrier club in my postings and would appreciate it if you'd reciprocate the courtesy towards our club too, since we're both fighting for the Parti and other off colored yorkies rights in the Yorkshire Terrier world :)

Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 3136769)

Beliefs based on what? Fear, Scare, lies....

The only leading authority on the Yorkshire Terrier that I have seen is Joan Gordon...she is the one who did the research...it is her history that is posted on the YTCA website and how old is some of it....and now thanks to the internet people have the ability to see books and studbooks. Some of the history needs to be rewritten...just like a lot of our history books that are not telling the truth. Some of her history that is in her book has been totally ignored.

Wow, so a show breeder that sells her dogs for $10,000 is only breeding for profit?

You cannot generalize these statements..there are good Parti/Biewer/Yorkie breeders and there are poor Parti/Biewer/Yorkie breeders. Many are into making a profit and many want to write off their motorhome through their breeding programs to go to dog shows. Nothing is black & white. Some do care and work hard for their dogs.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3136857)

Some may care, but since they don't have the cost of shows, why the big markup? Just because they can? They are breeding a fault and marketing is as an asset. I see this as unethical.

Originally Posted by Pinehaven (Post 3136763)

Maybe it was an oversite but I do have to disagree with your statement "that the only breeder/club/website that has provided proof of any kind is the Parti Yorkshire Terrier Club." The Colorful Yorkshire Terrier Club was started in August 2008, solely for the purpose of educating people about color genetics in the Yorkshire Terriers and as a safe and friendly place for colorful yorkie breeders to come together. I've tried to acknowledge the Parti Yorkshire terrier club in my postings and would appreciate it if you'd reciprocate the courtesy towards our club too, since we're both fighting for the Parti and other off colored yorkies rights in the Yorkshire Terrier world :)

Originally Posted by bchgirl (Post 3136525)

Which came first the chicken or the egg??? :p

Looks like this thread has come full circle...

Originally Posted by AprilLove (Post 3136949)

In all seriousness, is there going to be a sticky, Ann???

Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 3136996)

The Difference in the Parti Yorkie and the Biewer

As far back as we can trace the parti color has been in the Yorkshire Terrier. It is a recessive gene that can be explained very well at the Colorful Yorkie website. CYTC...Party Color
Now as to the difference of the two parti colored dogs, From my tracing of pedigrees and speaking to numerous people. The Biewers started with Mr. Biewer purchasing a stud dog in 1975 from Streamglen Kennels, Streamglen Richard. Nikkos Kennels purchased a couple of females from Streamglen, One being Streamglen Milady. At the time Streamglen was producing Champion status yorkies and were selling yorkies across the world and the United States.
Mr Biewer started breeding Ch. Streamglen Richard to all his Female Yorkshire Terriers trying to make his own mark by producing Champion quality yorkies that would come from his kennel. In his quest for champions, he did a lot of line and inbreeding. Then in January of 1984, a Parti colored Yorkshire Terrier was born from 2 of his Champion dogs line bred from Streamglen Richard. Darling and FruFru.
On the other side of the ocean was Nikko’s Kennels were doing the exact same thing, breeding for Champion Yorkies. Nikkos purchased their Champion male(Ch. Quarnhill Fusspot) from Stoneybrook Kennels in 1971 and bred him to Streamglen Milady, the female they obtained from Streamglen Kennels. Nikkos then began producing Champion Yorkies and continued to line breed also. In the 80’s Parti colored Yorkies started showing up in Nikkos kennels also, Gloria couldn’t bear to put the pups down so she passed them out the back door as pets and told them not to say where they got them(her own words).
Mr. Biewer did get his first ones registered with VDH but they designated them wrong color not for breeding, he wanted his adorable dogs to be shown so he went in search of a club that would accept them as a separate breed because they could not be shown as Yorkshire Terriers. The ACH was the first club to accept them as a distinct and separate breed. The dogs were then registered as Biewer Yorkshire A la Pon Pom. They originally had docked tails but Germany passed a law against docking so the tails then remained long.
In the USA, others wanted theirs registered with AKC as they were out of registered dogs and they wanted the right color to be shown on the papers( Black , white and tan), so in 2000 after 18 months of DNA testing AKC accepted the Parti colored Yorkshire Terrier.
During this time each went its own way in developing and registries.

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom (Post 3136997)

Yes, I would still like to see one bc for people new to Biewers/Partis - it's difficult for them to glean beginning info from a discussion thread.

I would like to keep it somewhat simple, yet informative. I don't feel it should be written by me, but rather by someone who has been involved deeply - as so many of you have been for quite a while now.

The tough part there, is the differing angles/opinions. Another option is to have 2 or 3 people each contribute a post to the sticky.

Or, MaryKay, like you said earlier (brilliantly :)) - just keep it extremely simple, descriptive, and provide some links to various sources for reading.

Originally Posted by Brooklynn (Post 3134063)

But isn't a Parti a yorkie so hence wouldn't anyone wanting one want to know the standard for the yorkshire terrier? I"m not trying to start anything but I hope that one that breeds and sells Parti's lets the buyer know that the Parti color is a disqualification in an AKC comformation show ring and that they can't be shown and would be for pet purposes only.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3136156)

Again, another reason why the YTCA link is appropriate.

Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3137202)

They all originated from, wolves too but no one suggested linking to a wolf site.

Them YTCA has nothing good to say about them. What would be the point of linking to their site?

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3137206)

To educate. Again quoting Ann's signature. Having heard all of this, you may choose to look the other way...but you can never say again that you did not know.
~o~o~o~ William Wilberforce 1759-1833 ~o~o~o~

Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 3136496)

I think that's what is causing all the confusion in this thread.

Compiling links to be pinned as a sticky in the library is a separate issue from answering the OP's question. It would be a resource for people who want to learn all about Parti Yorkies and Biewers, not just the differences between them.

I don't see how the YTCA link could not be included since Parti Yorkies are Yorkshire Terriers and the YTCA is the breed club.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3136570)

It's not just the YTCA, ever breed has a standard, and there are always those who would rather breed another variation. I'm not saying the YTCA should be the only link, the other sites have a chance to explain their side of the argument.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3136751)

I'm surprised you didn't know it was on their website, but that's exactly why I want the link posted. People aren't aware of the mother clubs beliefs on this. This is about those breeders who claim a fault is a plus, and charge more for it. I would have no problems with Parti breeders who charged pet prices for their dogs, however by charging more, it shows me they are breeding for profit.

Also since all the other links contain their version of the history of the Yorkshire terrier, the leading experts on the breed should be included. Whether you like it or not, the YTCA is the leading authority on the Yorkshire terrier.

Originally Posted by AprilLove (Post 3137033)

I agree Ann. The problem will probably be trying to find two or three people to write something, without 3 or 4 more objecting :D
When I was new to YT, I happened upon a post about someones' Biewers. I looked at the pics and said WOW! I didn't ask about it on the forum though, I just followed links, read websites and looked at more pictures, and said WOW! some more. Found the BiewerTalk site, joined it, found other Biewer sites, etc
I guess the point I am trying to make is, the debate about Biewers, Partis, where they came from, standards, etc etc has grown tremendously since I joined this site and probably will continue to stir debates and go off topic on any thread started with the word Parti or Biewer in it.

A sticky with nothing more than links to the various Biewer and Parti club websites and a condensed short version of the physical/trait differences in the dogs is probably the fairest way to do it :) JMO


oh, and maybe links to the various show venues that allow these breeds to be shown

Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3137206)

To educate. Again quoting Ann's signature. Having heard all of this, you may choose to look the other way...but you can never say again that you did not know.
~o~o~o~ William Wilberforce 1759-1833 ~o~o~o~

Originally Posted by livingdustmops (Post 3137248)

Sorry but there is no education on their website..only opinions..no proof of anything.

I don't have a problem posting the standard on YT without all the other comments that are made on the YTCA's website.

Originally Posted by AprilLove (Post 3137033)

I agree Ann. The problem will probably be trying to find two or three people to write something, without 3 or 4 more objecting :D
When I was new to YT, I happened upon a post about someones' Biewers. I looked at the pics and said WOW! I didn't ask about it on the forum though, I just followed links, read websites and looked at more pictures, and said WOW! some more. Found the BiewerTalk site, joined it, found other Biewer sites, etc
I guess the point I am trying to make is, the debate about Biewers, Partis, where they came from, standards, etc etc has grown tremendously since I joined this site and probably will continue to stir debates and go off topic on any thread started with the word Parti or Biewer in it.

A sticky with nothing more than links to the various Biewer and Parti club websites and a condensed short version of the physical/trait differences in the dogs is probably the fairest way to do it :) JMO


oh, and maybe links to the various show venues that allow these breeds to be shown