I don't have any interest in "stopping threads" or debates. What I have an interest in is some kind of simple overview (if possible) regarding the subject.

We discuss, debate, and ask about vaccines *all* the time - that doesn't mean there isn't a need for a Vaccine Overview to point members to. When someone just wants a basic introduction, they need a place to start - they don't need a debate thread.

For example, I've had newbies email *me* (of all people) to ask about the Biewers/Partis bc they don't understand the heated threads, they don't want to post on the heated thread, and they can't find the info here. I'm not qualified to properly address their questions...so...we need something in The Library.

Can I be qualified? :D j/k

I still go by what I originally replied. Bama's explaination and the links provided by kpstoybox. Minus any link to YTCA (sorry Nancy)...but since YTCA doesn't recognize parti's or biewers....it's irrelevant.

Why do these threads get heated? Three reasons basically. You have people who believe biewers are a breed of their own and should be bred respectively as such. Others who believe the dogs are just a color and not a breed...and third...the group of women who are passionate about the original yorkie standard. There is no need to provide any of those arguments into a sticky providing the differences between the two.

There's actually a fourth...but sometimes it's better to let sleeping dogs lie. ;)

I like Bama's explantions...

Now on to Puppy whoever....looks like to me she/he has a major problem with the YTCA...all I can say is "get over it" :) I would NEVER kill a puppy if it were ever to be born a parti colored, I would spay/neuter and place it into a pet home for the cost of the spay/neuter. Then I would spay/neuter both the male and female and start over because I do not want to produce something that is going to not be the best representation of the breed and that is to produce off colored yorkies. Culling is a word to kill and it use to be done many years ago and maybe still done today but I don't see it or hear of it being done anymore because how could someone kill a poor defenseless baby? That is horrifing!!!
Puppylove....the YTCA close minded?? No, we are upholding the standard as written and will stand behind our standard. Sorry but that's not being close minded but upholding our breed and standing behind our convictions!!! Again, I'll say you need to get over it and move on and saying this in the most polite way as possible with a smile on my face :)

Donna

YES, please!!! :D

Personally, after watching this thread evolve - I do agree that the link to YTCA is probably not necessary, but that's just my opinion. The intent of the sticky is to explain some basics about the Biewer and Parti - and I'm not convinced that needs to include the YTCA's opinion...? Jmo.

As far as heated threads, they will always be part of YT - I just want a place I/we can point people when they're looking for a bit of an intro to understanding Biewers and Partis as the question is constantly coming up :). And I agree - no need to provide any of the arguments in the sticky.

wow there is a breeder in Canada that's charging 3000 bucks a pup for Biewers saying the parents gene's is from Germany. If the German CKC equivalent doesn't recognize the breed, then she's got a darn cheek charging for a "rare breed recognized in Germany and Europe". Don't you think?

I think the YTCA opinion is necessary :) Because Parti's are registared as Yorkshire Terriers and the YTCA is the owner of the standard and how it's written for the "yorkshire terrier". :) If someone were to buy a Parti and wonder why it can't be shown they can refere to the YTCA standard and the DQ :) What if a Parti owner that had no knowledge of the YTCA standard and the DQ and decided to enter the Parti and they got DQ'ed they would have questions as to why am I not correct? Some people selling dogs aren't always truthful when they sell and to some unsuspecting buyer the seller can say sure you can show your parti it's registered with AKC...make sense?

Donna

I feel like if you are going to have a 'sticky' on the Biewer and the Parti yorkie then you would need a link to the YTCA website. After all the Parti yorkie is a Yorkshire Terrier with disqualifying colors. There is so much more to a yorkie than just a color. If someone wanted the best parti yorkie possible then they would need to study the standard for the Yorkshire Terrier therefore anyone who is trying to educate themselves about partis and Biewers should read the standards. jmo

Good luck, Ann.

Yeah....maybe it's just not realistic, I guess? I think unless there is some kind of consensus that occurs, I'll just chuck the idea - bc I really feel like I'm btwn a rock and a hard place, which is fine...I was just hopin' :).

I agree for the same reasoning

The standards for both the parti and the biewer are no where to be found on the YTCA link. So..why link to it under the topic at hand? And let's be honest here...someone wanting the best parti yorkie or Biewer they could find...would not get any help from the YTCA or it's website.

However, they can find and study the standard of the parti and Biewer at the links originally provided. :)

But isn't a Parti a yorkie so hence wouldn't anyone wanting one want to know the standard for the yorkshire terrier? I"m not trying to start anything but I hope that one that breeds and sells Parti's lets the buyer know that the Parti color is a disqualification in an AKC comformation show ring and that they can't be shown and would be for pet purposes only.

This debate is going to go round and round and I usually dont get into them but it just seems if your going to classify them as a yorkshire terrier the YTCA link should be there. I understand it is not needed for the biewers but they arent classified as yorkshire terriers. What am I missing?

I guess I"m missing the same thing...and I agree this debate will be non ending but at least I can keep it civil :)

Well, it should come as no surprise that I agree with this.

I want to add..I wasn't thrilled with Misty's interpretation of "the differences"...but at least she didn't degrade the parti and those that love and breed them. So I have no problem with her post being the explanation in the sticky.

As far as Nancy's contribution is concerned...the only relevance the link to the YTCA and the parti yorkie have in common...is a sentence or two of labeling all parti breeders as unscrupulous. That link may prompt or scare a newbie into not purchasing a parti yorkie (which I am certain was the purpose in adding the link). But in all seriousness...unless you are allowing the politics or opinions of breeding the parti into the equation...how is the link to the YTCA going to help anyone determine the difference's between the Biewer and Parti? This sticky is not called "Everything you should know concerning the Parti Yorkie". It is "The differences between the Biewer and the parti yorkie". And that is what is being lost in this thread.

I can understand why people don't want the YTCA views on the subject, but some Biewer clubs do believe that the biewer is a Yorkshire terrier, and I'm pretty sure all Parti's believe that the Parti is a Yorkshire Terrier. I think it very important to understand what the breed club of the Yorkshire Terrier believes. The Parti breeders have their own clubs and links, and if you only read them you get a one sided view on the subject. I'm don't really believe anyone has all the facts, but isn't it good to offer all opinions, and let people decide for themselves?

Ann, look to your signature for wisdom.

Since you asked...the fact you are missing is...my Biewer's are indeed still considered German Biewer Yorkies.

Well obviously Im not an expert on biewers nor do I claim to be. If that is the case I think the YTCA link should be included for both of them,

I don't think I've stated anywhere on these boards that I've called any parti breeder not reputable "because" I don't know any parti breeders with the exception of one and she and I get along because we both choose to agree to disagree and not let it get between us so I can't make that statement for any other Parti Breeder...BUT why are Parti Breeders so afraid of the YTCA? Because they take away from your sales? Or tell the truth about what is the standard for the Yorkshire Terrier? Please don't tear me a new one because I'm just asking the questions....
I also want to know do you have buyers that ask for show quality and can they be shown? Are you honest with them and say that their color is not up to the breed standard and that you are breeding away from the orginial standard? Do you tell them that eventually they will be allowed to show? Which I'm sorry to say won't be happening in the near future. I've been wanting to know these answers for awhile now since I get involved in some of these threads. The Parti's are suppose to be a yorkshire terrier with a major color fault so why wouldn't you refer anyone wanting a yorkshire terrier to the YTCA breed standard? I feel these are honest questions.

Donna

Please explain WHY they should be linked to a sticky concerning the differences in the two, when the YTCA does not reconize or support either? Just maybe I could understand the reasoning for some wanting the link included.

I just don't understand how linking to a site that barely mentions the parti and never mentions the Biewer...be included in a sticky explaing the differences between the two.

I do show and I do have friends who are members of the ytca, I personally chose not to be a member. I do know for a fact not all ytca members do liver shunt testing on their yorkshire terriers, do not OFA certify them, or do not do any blood testing of any kind! To me there is more to the standard than just a pretty yorkie with a nice conformation! Just because a yorkie meets the standard by their coloring and conformation it does not mean they are a healthy example of the breed. I do personally know of ytca members who are not reputable or have no morals, but yet they have say in what happens with this breed. I know of more parti breeders and biewers breeders who do the proper testing before they ever breed a litter of puppies or walk into a show ring with their show prospect! So closed minded yes!

I think I and Mardlin have stated many times there are bad and good in every aspect of any kind of membership and non membership clubs LOL...I personally believe health is of the utmost importance in this breed then comes everything else and so does many other "YTCA" members. Just because there are a few bad apples doesn't mean the whole is bad...just like with Parti breeders or Biewer breeders or Pug breeders or Basset hound breeders or Poodle breeders or mutt breeders the list goes on there are bad apples in every catagory so what you are saying is not flying with your accussations that the YTCA is closed minded....again get over it and move on :)

I would not have an issue with the ytca if all the members practiced what they preach or did not accuse others of not being reputable. When they are not reputable.

There is one other fact. If a breeder is truly trying to better a breed there is no financial gain of any kind. I personally know of many parti breeders and biewers breeders who breed to better the breed and not line their pockets with puppy money!

Plain and simple there is no place for the ytca to be linked with the parti or biewer.

I agree. When and if parti's are recognized as a separate breed like Biewers, then the YTCA's opinion would be irrelevant. Until then, any sticky about parti colored Yorkshire Terriers must contain YTCA links.

It is especially important than anyone considering a parti read what the YTCA says. It is important for a potential buyer to be aware that the color is a fault, not "rare". Pet quality Yorkies with faults, no matter what the faults are, should be priced accordingly, not have inflated prices.

As the proud owner of one Yorkshire Terrier and two Biewer a la Pom Pon's (did I just wake up a sleeping dog?) I think for the first time ever I'd like to weigh in on one of these Biewer vs Parti threads.

I understand where Ann is coming from by wanting to have some type of "generalized" sticky regarding this very controversial issue. Cause it was here on YT that I first seen a Biewer and wanted to know more about them.

What instead I found was heated threads that bordered on downright nasty. And in the mix of everyone claiming "THEY ARE CORRECT" the beauty of all these dogs, whatever you want to believe them to be, (Biewer, YT, Biewer Terrier and Parti Yorkies) was completely lost. And I'd walk away saying "Huh???"

I am a proud member (as some of you know) of one of the club links in kpstoybox post. But these heated threads are not doing any of our dogs justice, and that breaks my heart.

With that said, I feel bchgirls post was the closest except where she removed the YTCA. For whatever we want to believe about the origin of our dogs, etc. the discussion circle always includes the Yorkie and without permitting the YTCA's perspective on this issue is doing a disservice to the person seeking information.

I am one for ALL FACTS ON THE TABLE. You have to remember that most of the folks looking at these dogs are not nearly as informed as those that have posted on this thread. I was one of them.

So there's my two cents, Ann. However, I do agree with bchgirl in that she says... "good luck, Ann"

I personally know of many ytca members who do no health testing! So just because someone is a member of the ytca does not mean they are breeding healthy puppies or adults. Just because a yorkshire terrier has champion in front of their name does not mean they are an excellent example of the breed. When you can prove all ytca members practice what they preach, I will gladly get over it, lol.

Exactly, and I don't think that the average person knows this, I had to read so many threads here, to learn that that parti color was a "fault." It is not a rarity, if you breed 2 parti's together you can only get parti's.

Good luck on getting everyone in all organizations to be on the same page with a lot of members. I practice what I preach and when I see something that is not right you think I'm going to keep my mouth shut? If that is calling someone not being reputable so be it but I will do it tactfully and politically correct and in a way I won't be held liable for a law suit, I'm smarter than that LOL...

In my opinion the YTCA should be linked with the Parti because they all say that the Parti is a "Yorkshire Terrier" and that is plain and simple, black and white. Facts are facts ;)

LOL...I know plenty of non YTCA members that are not breeding for healthy puppies and adults and do not health test. And just because a NON member has a yorkshire terrier with a champion in front of their name does not mean they are an excellent example of the breed. When anyone can prove they can practice what they preach I'll take you seriously :)
I see so many yorkies in the ring and their owners are NOT members and they think their yorkie is the best representation of the breed and it should be petted out and yes I know breeders on this site that have LS issues in their lines and they are NON members but continue to breed so again until everyone can conform to responsible breeding practices then again I'll take your comments about the YTCA more seriously.

Donna

Because it is the parent club of yorkishire terriers. It seems you want to have your cake and eat it too. You want them recognized as yorkishire terriers but you dont want to recognize the parent club for yorkshire terriers. Please don't grow me a new one as I said I usually don't get into these debates but cant get past that one fact