I see you have been done wrong by some members and I'm truly sorry for your bad experience. Please don't judge all the members for a few bad apples.
Aren't you defeating your purpose on the color issue? LOL...again I'm so sorry you have had a bad experience I so hope that you can find peace.
As I've said before, health to me is of the utmost importance then comes the whole package...can't explain it any plainer than that ;)

The Partis' were from one of the top show breeders in England and one of the top show breeders in the U.S., those dogs were out of Champion dogs, champion bred and in my opinion they have every much of a right to show in AKC, if are show quality and not be ostracized because of white hair.
The pedigrees are the proof.

And so are the black and tan yorkies but it doesn't fit the breed standard for the show ring doesn't make them any less to love and be placed in a pet home just the color isn't for the show ring...it's the dark steel blue and tan...rules are in place for a reason and whether you like the reason or not, rules are rules, standard's are standards. I love a black and tan yorkie they have the most awesome structure for the most part but it's not what is called for the show ring doesn't make them any less a yorkie to love.

Is there an automatic DQ rule for dogs who have a slight overbite, or a coat that isn't the ideal silk? How about the black and gold yorkies who have won champion titles, these dogs will never be steel blue and tan because they do not carry the gene that will dilute their coats to the standards desired blue color ... will these dogs be stripped of their titles? Why the automatic DQ for parti, chocolate and golden?

In a TNT Article by Carl Yochum, president of the YTCA, he states "The parti colored, chocolate and tan solid colored yorkies are nothing but designer dogs." News - Bulletin Board

The YTCA's website also calls Parti yorkies "Designer dogs" Yorkshire Terrier Club of America (Awards)

But early history clearly writes, that off color has shown up in the breed since the beginning of the breed.

The YTCA's website article states:

A brief history of the development of the Yorkshire Terrier will show that the dog was developed in the 1800’s. In England, the Waterside Terrier was often crossed with the old English terrier, a silky coated black and tan or blue and tan terrier weighing around five pounds. When crafters from Scotland came into England, they brought several “Scotch“terriers, among them the Paisley and the Clydesdale. The Paisley was a small silky coated dog in various shades of blue. The Clydesdale was a blue and tan dog with the exact color pattern as the Yorkie of today. All of these original breeds were grizzle, tan, blue, blue and tan, or black and tan. No white dog or dogs with white markings were involved in the process of developing the breed. The first Yorkshire Terriers were entered at shows as Broken Haired Scotch and Yorkshire Terriers. In the early days, dog classes were often divided by size, under five pounds and over five pounds; however, there was never a class for colors other than the blue and tan we see today.

The article states that No white dog or dogs with white markings were involved in the process of developing the breed ... BUT

The Otter hound was used in the makeup of the Waterside terrier - Waterside terriers were used in the make up of the Yorkie according to the YTCA's Yorkie history page. Color's of the Otter hounds were not only grizzle and blue and tan but also piebald, chocolate and tan colored. Otterhound Colors

The YTCA article goes on to state that scotch terriers or broken haired scotch terriers were used in the make up of the yorkie but there are numerous early writings of blue, tan or white colored scotch terriers, see a few links here:

Kennel Club calendar & stud book - Google Books

British rural sports: comprising ... - Google Books

1861: Shows At Leeds, Birmingham, And Manchester. Continued

Books also mention white Yorkshire Terriers, here's one link:

A manual of toy dogs: how to breed ... - Google Books

Some of the first prize winning yorkshire terriers were blue and tan born Yorkies.
The American book of the dog: The ... - Google Books

Numerous early writings also state that the maltese were used in the make up of the yorkshire terrier. Maltese were used to enhance the texture and length of the yorkies coat ... Maltese display the maximum expression of the piebald gene ... they're just one big white spot!

In addition to the above writings, parti and other off colors have appeared in well known old time breeders and in well known show breeders lines, in addition to Nikkos, parti also has been seen in the Wildweir and Parquin kennel.

So I'm not sure how a group of people can say that something never happened or that these off colors are a result of being "designer (made) dogs" when early writings state that these off colors have been seen since the beginning? How can they say that No white dog or dogs with white markings were involved in the process of developing the breed when history clearly shows that dogs who carried white and other off colors, were used in the make up of this breed?

People can pick and choose to believe what they want to believe; they can see what they want to see (or see what others only want them to see) but for me, I see recessive genes at work, and these genes have made their appearances in the breed since it's beginning. So now I ask, what makes a yorkie a yorkie ... is it it's blue and tan coat color or is it the dogs unbroken, documented bloodline and heritage?

Written standards are a wonderful guide for trying to achieve that "perfect" goal but standards should not be taken so literally that it discriminates and casts aside healthy dogs, solely because of their nonstandard coat color - these being the same non standard colors that have been documented in many early books about the breed.

Just something for all to think about ....

I will still show what the standard calls for as long as it's healthy. If I produce a healthy parti it will be placed in a pet home and again parents spayed and neutered. Of course it's a recessive gene if it's being produced, genetics is genetics.
Call me hard headed LOL but as long as the rule is in place it's to be followed. I try and not break any rules as that is what I was taught call me weird but I see things the way it's to be followed. Until the standard changes I will abide by it.

I personally don't show a dog with a bad bite because it's not what the standard calls for, I don't show a black yorkie as it's not what the standard calls for, I don't show a light silver dog as it's not what the standard calls for...in fact I have a yorkie that is my first champion that was a nice dark steel blue when he finished but turned very light and is now neutered and never has been used for breeding because he isn't what the standard calls for and not exactly what I want in my breeding program but is healthy and from nice and well known lines. He's now a happy pet in my home being loved. I've started over a couple of times to insure I'm doing the right thing health wise and what the standard calls for.

This breed has changed drastically since it's large boned, rat chasing days. Many breeders obviously deviated from the standard quite a few times over the years...to get where the yorkie is today. It certainly looks a lot different then what the founding fathers and mothers of the breed had in mind years and years ago. I bet some of them would be devestated to see the yorkie of today. But the fact is...change is inevitable...a true fact of life.

The parti's day will come. For now..they are AKC registered and much to your dismay...their carrier's can and will be shown. Once we have parti's the quality of today's show yorkie...and pedigree's filled with red...maybe the PTB in the YTCA will come around. If not..we will continue to show our dogs elsewhere until they do. Once they are being consistantly bred to a conformation that would rival a show quality Yorkie...someone in the YTCA will come around...it only takes a member or two to get the ball rolling. That is my hope anyway.

[QUOTE=Brooklynn;3134772]I will still show what the standard calls for as long as it's healthy. If I produce a healthy parti it will be placed in a pet home and again parents spayed and neutered. Of course it's a recessive gene if it's being produced, genetics is genetics.
Call me hard headed LOL but as long as the rule is in place it's to be followed. I try and not break any rules as that is what I was taught call me weird but I see things the way it's to be followed. Until the standard changes I will abide by it.[/QUOTE]

But how does one go about changing something without fighting for it?

If we cull all the parti's and the carriers from the breeding pool...how will that bring change? It won't!
Can't you see we have no choice but to fight for change? Even if we keep losing..we keep bettering our dogs and keeping pushing for change. One day it may happen. I just hope I live to see it!

You know as well as I know there are many yorkshire terriers from top lines with off bites being shown and championed. They are not being DQ from the ring! There are modified coats being shown and championed as well. They are also not being DQ from the ring. There are dogs being shown in the ring with bad patellas and becoming champions. Do you honestly not see a problem with this picture?

I would rather breed a parti colored yorkie who is healthy to a standard colored silk coated yorkie from top lines with health issues!

[quote=kpstoybox;3134824]I wish you wouldn't use the word "cull" maybe replace with take out because the word "cull" to me means kill and that is horrid in my eyes. The parti in the US hasn't been in the ring as long as I remember and used so I really don't see it changing in our life time. And to be honest, and being a God fearig person I believe no one will see it happen and sorry to bring religion in it but again my beliefs. I'm sorry but we'll just have to agree to disagree on this topic. All I can say is good luck and I will continue to stand up for the current standard :) as I'm sure you'll continue to fight your fight.

Donna

Of course I see it and again, I can't say how many times I've said I don't agree with it and fight against it as well....and the difference is there is not a DQ in place for those faults. There happens to be a DQ in place for the Parti AND the standard doesn't call for those colors. If there was a DQ in place for a bad bite there would be more DQ's in the ring I'm almost sure.
If you go and read a lot of my posts I have said there is a problem with those issues being brought in the ring and I am against that with passion as well. I get so frustrated myself when those types of dogs beat my dogs that doesn't have that problem!!! You're beating a dead horse there with me because I see it and complain about it too....
And Parti's don't have those types of issues???? And what makes you think if Parti's that were allowed to show wouldn't be brought in the ring with those problems as well? You can't say that wouldn't happen either. AGAIN, there is a bad apple in all areas of breeding whether it be in the standard yorkie or the Parti...

I understand and appreciate your dedication to following the standards.

It's interesting that we always hear "if I produce a parti it will be placed in a pet home and it's parents spayed and neutered." What about the rest of both parent's lines? Will all past and current offspring from that sire and dam be spayed and neutered? How about the sires, dams, brothers and sisters of the parti carrying parents?

Since it may be hard to determine which of approximately 50% of these two line carry the recessive parti gene, will the breeder end both lines and start all over again with new unrelated lines? Spaying the parents of a parti dog, is only putting a band-aide on the situation because the gene is still in those 2 lines ... it will just take the right mating to bring the color out again and if that parti carrying stud was used often, there could be a lot of carrier puppies running around. ;)

I can only answer for myself but I wouldn't personally buy from those lines anymore and try and stay away from any breeder that doesn't do what I feel is in the best interest of the yorkie breed and standard.
Thank you for understanding my view point and being nice :) I try and practice what I preach and stay true to my convictions and on this subject with Parti's I will agree to disagree :) I hope you can appreciate and understand it :)

Donna

Personally I don't know why parti yorkies couldn't be shown as another variety of the breed. Plenty of other breeds have parti colors shown separately. For that matter, some breeds are even separated by coat type.

Where the gene came from is a moot point...it's here now and the dogs aren't going away.

I can only see benefits of allowing parti's to be evaluated in the ring.

This is it...bottom line, end of story.

Even if those of us who only want the best for the parti...quit breeding it today...those who breed for the sole purpose of money or those who claim they want just one litter (that's where most of today's pet yorkies come from) will keep the parti growing through the pet population anyway's. One quick look on puppyfind will back up this statement.

I would hazard a guess...that on average...there are at least 20 carriers to every parti born and registered with the AKC. As Debbie mentioned...she tried to get the YTCA to release this info, and they refused. How come? Because contrary to what some have said here...the YTCA is very worried over the parti's growing popularity and the movement to get them recognized.
How many times have we all read on this board...member after member stating their next yorkie will be a Biewer or a Parti. When prices come down even more so...and the pet homes can readily afford them...the parti population will explode whether we like it or not.

So I ask the YTCA members...what good is the DQ helping to better the yorkie breed as a whole? It's not..it's only a quick fix..a band aid to try and keep the parti from infiltrating the show lines. However, they forgot about the parti's greatest weapon...the carrier.

Eventually...they will have no choice but to address this situation in a correct manner and quit sweeping it under the rug with hastily and poorly written DQ's.

I don't think the YTCA is worried about the Parti's growing popularity; a breed club should never change the standard to go with popular trends. Most breeders I've spoken with don't even like it that the Yorkshire Terrier is such a popular breed, they think popularity produces breeders who are just in it for the money, and not a true love for the breed. When you love something, you want to protect it.

I do agree. The parti-carrier is a threat and will be one soon. I have seen some very nice parti-carriers that if the white was not so pronounced on the chest or up to the chin could strut in the ring with pride.
This brings up the earlier question about removing the parents from a breeding/show program. If you have shown your male and championed him out, shown your female and championed her, done all lab/xray/and vet screenings and produced say 2 litters of pups from them that were all standard color. You place the top 3 in show homes, and pet out the rest. Then on the 3rd and final litter you get a particolored pup. You stated you would spay/neuter the line. What about the 3 that are showing with people you have allowed to show them? Do you take the pups back and refund the money? How about their time? What if one of them had championed in a year and now had a litter of pups? What then?
I just see this growing more and more each time a litter of pups are born to parti/or particarriers alike. There is no "test" to assure that your lines are pure. It just takes one here or there to infiltrate the lines and there it is.
Just sad to think with all the unhealthy pups that are born, with all the diseases that are running rampant in the Yorkies lines, that we chose to take a stand against a healthy dog. When you breed a litter, are you only looking for conformation and standard? I would hope that health would be first and foremost in your breeding program. How about temperment?
Like stated I agree that we disagree. I hope that someday the powers that be wake up and see that within their very lines are some beautiful healthy dogs that for years have been shunned and ignored.
Maybe one last word....:rolleyes:...I hope the YTCA will look at Americas past...some day owners of Yorkies of color may stand up together and challenge for change. When that happens I bet pens will start changing the standard or there maybe one heck of a fight.
:)

If you have read all my posts you'd know that health is of the utmost importance with me and then the standard. #1: I don't sell show dogs to anyone :) so therefore I have no worries about anyone producing something. I breed for show dogs for myself period. #2: Temperament is very important, don't want an aggressive dog nor very timid dog in my breeding program. Parti's are not going to be allowed in the standard anytime soon that I can pretty much say. Just like the Poodle standard they have a DQ as well stating no parti coloreds and that is also a DQ, so it's not only the yorkie breed that doesn't accept the Parti's.
Can't challenge or change the standard if you are not a member of the YTCA and the conceus within the YTCA it's not gonna happen.
Donna

The Parti's and the Biewers are a big threat or else the people so opposed to them would not be making post after post on a thread that was suppose to be about the different between a Parti and a Biewer. There are over 10-15 AKC breeds that accept the Parti color.

There are quite a few breeds that are in serious trouble, and anything that may compromise the health of the breed should be seen as a threat. We really don't know enough about the parti gene yet. I don't think they are a threat to YTCA in the way you are implying. It is very easy to breed the parti color, much easier than trying to obtain the right shade of blue, if YTCA members were only concerned about selling dogs and not protecting the breed, they could easily add the parti gene to their lines. It's so much easier to add a recessive trait than remove it.

it got off topic :) And as far as them being a threat they aren't to me because if it's not in the standard it's not a threat. I'm just upholding the written standard and following it no threat just stating facts :)
If you want a breed that accepts Parti's go to that breed if you want to conform to a standard. YTCA isn't going to change the standard to fit the Parti yorkie.
And on the Biewer they are making it a seperate breed so when they are recognized as a seperate breed then I have no problems with them.

Donna

Parti poodles can be shown in UKC.

A gene color does not harm the health of a dog...inbreeding harms these dogs. Since I have been involved with the Biewers (which is the same dog as the Parti based on pedigree's) I have spent a great deal of time reading books on genetics and color. I believe it is your mission and a few other breeders on YT to continuously try to imply there are health issues with these dogs when their issues are no different than any other Yorkie.

Why do you think the Yorkie is 36 times more likely to have LS? It was because the breeders didn't care and continuously inbreed these dogs and in many cases still do. That is a much bigger health concern than a color in a dog. Why do you think many members in YTCA tried their hardest to discredit Terri Shumsky..they made her life a living hell when she tried to bring the truth out of what was going on with the dogs and LS in the show world. She is my hero because she was willing to speak the truth about the dogs and she was willing to hurt her standing in YTCA to save her precious dogs.

I think two of the Biewer clubs don't believe in breeding biewer to yorkie, but one club still believes in doing this. Are the offspring biewers or yorkies? Since there is one club that still believes in breeding biewers with yorkies, I believe having the YTCA link is applicable again, after all, yorkies are involved.

Exactly and they certainly make sure no one gets in that even looks at a parti. But one day......

So help me here....
The YTCA will never change its standards for popular trends?
Did it not do that with the blue and tan/black and tan/blue and gold/ or whatever color combo is now allowed. How about when the weights were 2 classes and now are one? And the latest change to completely exclude and in many people rudely "unanimously" rule against unscrupulous breeders looking to make a buck?
They in fact do change, like it or not.
LOL at the way your post sounded to me. "Can't challenge or change the standard if you are not a member of the YTCA and the conceus within the YTCA it's not gonna happen." Adding humor, please do not take it wrong but should na na na not be after that? lol
I do want to protect the Yorkshire Terrier breed and preserve it for generations to come. It is not working that well right now and change is needed. I want to see less health issues in the ring and out of the ring. I want Yorkies to live to 15 as a norm again. I want them to walk on firm knees and hips. I want them to be free from liver shunts and other life threatening diseases. I want them to have happy homes that do not neglect and abuse them. Imagine what OUR dogs parent club could do for US owners if they all worked together on more important issues. Because when it comes right down to it, the YTCA is MY dogs club. I may not be a member but I DO own Yorkies and YOU represent my dog in the public also. And I for one am not happy with the way it is going for MY breed. Everyone on this thread has a say in this. I feel a parent club not only is there to protect a "standard" but to protect a breed. You as a YTCA member have chosen to ...
'To encourage and promote quality in the breeding of pure-bred Yorkshire Terriers and do all possible to bring their natural qualities to perfection." Did the AKC not get proof that particoloring is indeed their natural quality also? How many DNA tests were done to prove this fact from more than one line?
"To do all in its power to protect and advance the interests of the breed and to encourage sportsmanlike competition at dog shows and obedience trials."
Protect and advance interest in the breed? By the shunning of owners of Yorkies who may one day want to be a member? If I owned a particolored yorkie that was altered could I be a member? Would my dog be shunned? Many are interested in the new colors...how are you going foster that interest for the breed?
"To urge members and breeders to accept the standard of the breed as approved by The American Kennel Club as the only standard of excellence by which the Yorkshire Terrier shall be judged." Now the AKC does recognize and register "off" color dogs. How long will it take for them to allow them in the ring? When they do, will we be here with open arms to let YOU in our breeding program? hmmm
Most of the people who are trying to improve the parti lines and better the breed are working to improve the breed also. They are trying to protect and advance interest. Our dogs are AKC registered. Their standard colored parti carrying offspring can show in AKC shows. They can compete at obedience trials. Should we not be offered the chance to show the YTCA and its members what we are working on. The opportunity is there to foster us, to help us to improve. Instead we are shunned and chastised.

Well stay tuned...things change everyday in the clubs but just because a club believes as the Germans do to bred back to a Yorkie does not have anything to do with the YTCA...nothing.

These dogs are all Yorkies...take the time to read the pedigree's and you will see these dogs started from a top show breeder in England and were inbreed big time then 2 shipped to Germany and a few to California.

I have been reading this thread from the begging, and even though I do not have a dog in the fight( no pun intended) I love your passion for the Parti's ,well not just for the Parti's but for all Yorkie's. I love an underdog ( once again no pun intended) and I pray that the Parti will one day get its place in the sun.

Not all the Biewer clubs believe as you do, but if this is what you believe than the YTCA link is indeed relevant.

:rolleyes: I wasn't going to post in this thread because it always starts and stops with the same things being said...the exact same false info about the parti's health. I can't speak for other parti owners/breeders but I can speak for me and my dogs. I currently own 3 parti colored Yorkies and did, until recently, have two carriers (one being Livi's baby and one being my male, Huck) and I also raised another parti carrier of Livi's last Summer. With that said, I have had 4 vets now tell me how INCREDIBLY sound and healthy that each and every one of those parti & carriers are!! The babies had more shots today and another exam...the vet bragged on them from this time and also told me that her and the other vet had talked about how extremely nice and sound they were at their last check-up.

I am tired of hearing how we do not know if the parti is healthy or not! I have now owned, with Livi's babies, a total of 6 partis and/or carriers and they are (as all of the vets have said) EXTREMELY healthy!! No, I cannot speak for all partis but I have 6 out of 6 that are perfect. I can't say that for the one traditonal colored Yorkie that I bought from a show breeder.