That is why I said I may be wrong.. I didn't know but I have been told that several times.;)

yes I understand, It does not matter to me if they are judged against the traditionals or in a separte category. But I think it would be more fair for everyone if they did it in a separate category.

I understand what you are saying. I am not the one that brought up the comparison. The question was, how is one breeding to the standard and one isn't considered that. IMO, that is determined by what you are trying to achieve in the pups you produce. Are you using these faults, but still trying to achieve the 'standard', or not. With Partis, you are trying to get dogs that won't meet the standard.

Again, if I were asked to explain, which I was, that would be my take on it. What I can't figure out is why it was even brought up or why it's relevant to the topic that was being discussed. :confused:


You are right about that! :thumbup:

I see. I was just curious as to what your thoughts were. I would think they would need a separate "classification" as well. Don't they do this with some spaniels now? But then again, some dogs like Bassets and Beagles and Dobies, they show altogether. Who knows...will be interesting to see what they future holds.

First, Blue and Tan is the correct color per the YT standards (not blue and gold as you've indicated above and in previous posts). Just wanting to clarify this so people aren't confused any more then possible in this thread.

So you're saying, that it's ok for someone to use an off colored black and gold or silver and tan to "enhance" the blue and tan coloring in their pups. If that's the case, than I guess it would be just as ok for a parti breeder to use their black and tan parti to enhance the coat color of their steel blue and tan parti carrier pups?

Yep, you are right....sorry for the inaccuracy. In my brain I refer to it as gold everytime because to me, that's what color it looks like.

Sure...I don't see the difference. Then again...I don't see where I ever said that Partis shouldn't be bred,do you? That just seems to be the conclusion that was made. (Which I was actually finding quite humorous.) All I stated was that there was no standard for Partis...and there isn't. Not the same thing, now is it?

Yes
except that they can be shown, just not AKC.

Yes many other breeds have separate categories for different colors.
I don't understand why the YTCA won't do that. You know, if they did, then they could set the standard and have some control. It is only a matter of time.

The original biewer standard called for docked tail that was changed in 1998 because it was banned in germany.

It was around, it has been stated and in books that they had them put down.

So Bama do you believe that the Biewer is a separate breed and not a yorkshire terrier?

Thank you for clarifying. I didn't know this.

I can't speak for the Biewers, but as for the parti's, there are writings in magazines and books, stating that there were white yorkshire terriers in the early 1900's (these writings were printed in the early 1900's). Well known breeders who bred during the 1930's -1980's have also said they had the parti color pop up in their litters. Prior to the acceptance of the parti color into the AKC registry in 2000, parti colored pups were kept quiet, placed in pet homes and sometimes even destroyed.

Misty I think it would be fair to say that most show breeders do not follow the standard for color.
Look how many Black /Tan/Gold Silver/Tan/Gold off colored Ch dogs are still being bred
or
The one who enhance the color or chalk the white spot for the show ring so they may qualify.
Those breeders follow the same standard except for off color, same as Parti’s.

I'm not going to make an assumption on what most show breeders to given that I "know" very few show breeders. But, I don't think what you are saying is really that far fetched or impossible. :)

The fact of the matter is if someone wanted to show a parti yorkie in IABCA...(which I'm pretty certain is the circuit you are referring to) when the disqualification for color was enacted in Oct 2007...the dog would be disqualified as the same standard governs judges in IABCA. Prior to this event...I'm sure they could be shown and the color considered a fault and judged accordingly.



While Mr. Biewers dogs began with yorkshire terriers...there is no way to determine what was or was not been bred into the dogs from Germany as we know them today. While we may argue standards...the biewer's color placement has nothing to do with the pie bald gene. It's another gene entirely.

The biewer has now been accepted into the Russian Krnological Federation....which is a registry recognized by AKC and is being shown in confirmation events in Russia. Obviously the RFK considers them a seperate breed. ;)

That's great if you live in Russia, but I don't believe it has anythjing to do with the US. The Biewers are considered a separate breed in Germany also. But that has nothing to do with the points being debated here.

Really, and what gene would that be, and how do you know it to be different gene??

I suspect it's the Irish spotting gene, that gene produces a fairly predictable pattern. Masks, saddles, white legs, chest and white tipped tails (basically). There has also been research on some biewers that shows they have the parti gene but others look to me, to have the Irish spotting gene.

Partis come in 3 genetic types,
Irish Parti-White collar, white chest, white legs. Most the time With blaze. This is the most common parti.
Spotted Parti-This dog is over 60% white, with spots on the Back.
Piebald Parti- This dog has over 80% white. There are from
None to 3 spots on the body. Many times there is only a spot Over one eye. This is the rarest parti.
All parti must carry at least 2 of these genes. Irish is more
Dominant over both spotted and piebald. Spotted is dominant Over piebald. Parti is recessive, both parents must carry the Gene to produce it. 2 partis bred together will always produce Parti.
They act on each other. If a dog has a gene for Irish parti, and One for piebald parti, he may look like a spotted parti. Each Parent gives one gene to the puppy. If both parents look Spotted, but are genetically, 1-Irish, and 1-piebald, then each Parent could give 1-Irish, and the pup would end up with 2 Genes for Irish parti, and be a Irish parti. This is how a parti can Be born that has less white than both his parents. An Irish Marked parti can carry the gene for both spotted, or piebald, And could throw pups with more white than he or she has. This Is all very confusing, but this is where knowing the pedigree of The the dogs comes in real handy.

Please tell me where a parti-yorkie is shown?? Certainly not in the AKC ring. My information is correct. Biewers are shown in the U.S. with IABCA, NAKC, and ARBA as well as with several Canadian Clubs.

I do not know where but I know others have said they were showing them. Might be registered APRI.

It was stated that someone saw Raymond Antonucci who owns Parquin
showed his Parti's with IABCA before his untimely death.
Two others are APRI and ACA.

Thanks for the help.

Since this thread is still going pretty strong, I have a question. :)


Does anyone know a reputable Biewer or Parti breeder in Oklahoma? I hope to own one or the other or maybe both :D one day and would like to start looking and hopefully find a good breeder.

I know of an excellent one in Texas, I think she's this side of Dallas. If you're interested, pm me and I'll give you her info.

Yes, Raymond Antonucci had Parti Yorkies and he did show in IABCA. Actually I have a photo of him with one of his parti's .

Fantasy Yorkies is in Missouri

My Livi is due anytime now....I live in Missouri.