Anyone see the BBC Pedigree Dogs Exposed?

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

I agree it is a complicated problem. But even if people did just drop them off or turn them loose, once the dog is picked up and turned in there should be huge fines.

Just as with registering guns has not kept guns off the street, but it has made it easier to track them.

I want my dogs back if the owners can no longer keep them, it is written into my contract.

There are no easy answers, and if you convinced all the reponsible breeders to stop breeding, it would just make a better market for the bad breeders.

Education is the the only real answer.

I have never, never, never said to stop breeding but now I am because I think we should stop breeding in commercial settings (volume breeders).

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by nana911

breed, never want to. I have my "pets", newly spayed and am perfectly happy. So, I have no investment in this debate. My question is, if one depends on the UKC or AKC 'book' of standards for their breeding program and the 'book' is specifying standards that are detrimental to the breed then where do the ethics come into play?

I am NOT speaking necessarily to Yorkies, as I do not see a tremendous degradation of them healthwise overall in their skeletal systems, only in the mill system that is breeding them ever smaller and that is NOT in the standard. I am referring to what was hammered on in the Crufts program such as the King Cavalier and the German Shepherd which I found appalling and was defended as a written standard. If that is the written standard and as a breeder you are supposed to breed to that standard to win in the showring, than what is the alternative to being a show breeder?

I'm just asking, seriously? The program really disturbed me...

The program should disturb you and any other human that cares about animals. Again Education is the key and once more people start understanding what is going on they can demand that things change. The breed clubs are responsible for this and need to step up to the plate in terms of health of their dogs. AKC should but they will tell you they are only a registry...so I have no faith in them unless the public really gets into their face. As a showbreeder you make choices...health of the dog or winning ribbons..your call.

It will be a slow learn but never give up.

[nana911]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

The program should disturb you and any other human that cares about animals. Again Education is the key and once more people start understanding what is going on they can demand that things change. The breed clubs are responsible for this and need to step up to the plate in terms of health of their dogs. AKC should but they will tell you they are only a registry...so I have no faith in them unless the public really gets into their face. As a showbreeder you make choices...health of the dog or winning ribbons..your call.

It will be a slow learn but never give up.

yes but, as in the case of the German Shepherds who could barely walk because of their hind legs, and then when asked the judge's response was that this was a more correct form then the 'working' dogs. So that is what the showbreeders obviously aspire to and propagate. In that case how does the debate between hobby breeders and show breeders rage if that is the standard that show breeders are adhering to? Clearly in this case the standard is unacceptable healthwise.

My girls are not registered, I never saw the need as they are not breeders. But it makes me suspect the entire registering process. What is the point. Absolutely, I've always abhored the mills, bybs, brokers etc... I'm just questioning the problem with hobby breeders vs show breeders if adhering to the written standards on some breeds is producing such problems.

I like your answer of choose between health or ribbons. That is pretty much what it does come down to.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

I have never, never, never said to stop breeding but now I am because I think we should stop breeding in commercial settings (volume breeders).

I did not mean to indicate that YOU persnally said to stop breeding. It was a hypothetical comment as in even if all the ethical breeders could somehow be convinced to stop breeding, it would just create a larger market for the bad breeders.

Unfortunately the volume breedeers are licensed by the USDA. And they approve of them being kept in out buildings in cages. They do not see Jeff Dane's way of breeding to be a problem.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

The program should disturb you and any other human that cares about animals. Again Education is the key and once more people start understanding what is going on they can demand that things change. The breed clubs are responsible for this and need to step up to the plate in terms of health of their dogs. AKC should but they will tell you they are only a registry...so I have no faith in them unless the public really gets into their face. As a showbreeder you make choices...health of the dog or winning ribbons..your call.

It will be a slow learn but never give up.

The AKC also needs to step up to the plate and take their share of the responsibility. True they are only a registry, but they share the blame. They do not have to allow these breed clubs to show.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

The AKC also needs to step up to the plate and take their share of the responsibility. True they are only a registry, but they share the blame. They do not have to allow these breed clubs to show.

Since the AKC does registries on high volume breeders and puppymills then I doubt they will ever step up. I will never, ever understand how the AKC can put on shows and make it look so beautiful but behind the curtain they really don't care about the dogs...I was so let down when I learned this.

That was why I was so impressed with what happened in England..Their kennel club stepped up to the plate and demanded changes...now it took the awful documentary to show the public what was really going on but at least change was started. It will be interesting to see if there is any backlash with the AKC here in the states.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

Since the AKC does registries on high volume breeders and puppymills then I doubt they will ever step up. I will never, ever understand how the AKC can put on shows and make it look so beautiful but behind the curtain they really don't care about the dogs...I was so let down when I learned this.

That was why I was so impressed with what happened in England..Their kennel club stepped up to the plate and demanded changes...now it took the awful documentary to show the public what was really going on but at least change was started. It will be interesting to see if there is any backlash with the AKC here in the states.

Well maybe the AKC needs to be exposed also. I agree they are not likely to stop as long as it is a large protion of their income.

[Lilyshuman]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Perhaps all litters should have to be microchipped in order to register them. That system would track every dog back to it's breeder.
.

In Canada a registered CKC must be microchiped with an international ISO chip before the puppy leaves the home of the breeder. Also you can only have registered dogs in your home if you want to breed and register. Now everyone is buying dogs with no papers because there are so many people just in it for the cash. Every CKC breeder I have talked to is a show breeder.

The problems seem to just change. I agree it must be education, public education!

At least when the dogs are registered anyone can see inbreeding. The situation seems overwhelming... But there was that one lady (I forget her name) who seems to be making a difference in the KCS breed.

I would love to hear what a show breeder has to say about this??