Anyone see the BBC Pedigree Dogs Exposed?

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by chachi

My quess is more show breeders are testing their sire and dams than non show breeders.

I would guess the same but what level of testing? Just enough to get by with breeding? Many Yorkie breeders do not test for LS....they really do not want to find out and have to shut their lines down. I have seen breeders deny it was LS and find some strange disease to pin on the dog. Unless people and breeders are willing to neocropsy every puppy/dog that dies due to medical reasons we will never know how many are really dying of LS or Auto Immune or herpes or a number of diseases...this goes for owners also.

Again it goes back to the ethics of the breeder.

[carmen in nj]

all I can say is that it is sad what we had done to those poor dogs in the name of beauty.. I also have an open door policy, if for ANY reason my parents can't take care of the dog, I will take him or her back no questions asked,I will make sure my dogs, get a new home or stay with me.
I do wish we can take a hard look at what is happening and put our little grain of sand into help fixing it..
hugs,
Carmen in nj

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by carmen in nj

all I can say is that it is sad what we had done to those poor dogs in the name of beauty.. I also have an open door policy, if for ANY reason my parents can't take care of the dog, I will take him or her back no questions asked,I will make sure my dogs, get a new home or stay with me.
I do wish we can take a hard look at what is happening and put our little grain of sand into help fixing it..
hugs,
Carmen in nj

Good for you and I agree everyone can help...education is empowering.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

As it should be, as far as I am concerned. If you are going to be bringing living creatures into this world you have a responsibility to these dogs. I don't believe it should be the government (shelters) or rescue responsibility to pay for all of these animals = which means us (taxes or donations) should have to pay for this. I would love to see a system where every dog that goes into a shelter/rescue the breeder would have to pay for the expense of finding it a new home. The animals would not be euthanized (as I could see breeder doing this) but a new home found as long as the animal was evaluated and deemed to be a good pet. I have never understood why the breeder makes $$$ but then is never responsible for these dogs again but I am as a taxpayer or a person who gives donations to rescue. I do not understand where my rights come in...I hear breeders talking about their right to breed anything they want and anytime they want.... sorry this is from another post that drives me nuts.....but with over 5million animals being put down every year someone is sucking in the $$$ and I (along with other taxpayers) am paying for it.

The Dane brothers are not Hobby breeders. They are puppy millers.


Perhaps all litters should have to be microchipped in order to register them. That system would track every dog back to it's breeder.

I agree with the problem of where does one persons rights end and anothers begin. Similar to the seat belt laws, one person believe it is their right to NOT wear a seat belt, even though the taxpayers have to support this person if they become brain damaged due to them NOT wearing one.

Not to bring in another issue, just using it as an example.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

The Dane brothers are not Hobby breeders. They are puppy millers.


Perhaps all litters should have to be microchipped in order to register them. That system would track every dog back to it's breeder.

I agree with the problem of where does one persons rights end and anothers begin. Similar to the seat belt laws, one person believe it is their right to NOT wear a seat belt, even though the taxpayers have to support this person if they become brain damaged due to them NOT wearing one.

Not to bring in another issue, just using it as an example.

If you ask the Dane brothers they are hobby breeders ...who determines what is what and why should any breeder have a hobby that costs me $$$...If it is a hobby the breeder should pay for all expenses..if you get what I mean. It really is all about how many puppies/cats are born a year and the glut of animals we have. The Hunt Corporation would pay a very high amount ... as they should as brokers.

The difference to me is that a puppy has no control if he/she is born or not and is controlled by whomever owns him/her. They have no choices. Human's have choices when it comes to wearing a seatbelt or not but again it boils down to the high cost of insurance (medical care). When I was a kid no one wore a seatbelt, now I don't know anyone who doesn't...I am sure it has helped bring down the cost of brain damage in auto accidents....big time.

[Dixies Mom]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

I would guess the same but what level of testing? Just enough to get by with breeding? Many Yorkie breeders do not test for LS....they really do not want to find out and have to shut their lines down. I have seen breeders deny it was LS and find some strange disease to pin on the dog. Unless people and breeders are willing to neocropsy every puppy/dog that dies due to medical reasons we will never know how many are really dying of LS or Auto Immune or herpes or a number of diseases...this goes for owners also.

Again it goes back to the ethics of the breeder.

I have dealt with 2 breeders that are fully aware of issues within their lines and they continue to breed and worse than that they continue to sell the dogs with open registrations. If they had to be held accountable and pay to keep that baby alive or free from pain maybe they would change their breeding practices.

[Cerise]

video quote: "all in the pursuit of cosmetic points, not anatomical points"

So true! It's has been out of control for far too many years.

$$$$$ is the reason. Many breeders say that there is no money in breeding. Are they sure about that? When a dog is labeled BEST IN SHOW in the serious, high end UKC, and AKC shows, there IS money in
breeding those dogs. The money makers are the ones who control these organizations and breed clubs, and who fight to keep the rules they have made in tact. You witnessed them going to the hearings in this video and there are many, many, more like them representing other breeds in the UKC and AKC. Money controls the continuance of this problem.

This video is heartbreaking, and the UKC and breed club presidents were shameful in it.

We hear about the BYB and puppymill unethical money making mind set. To see in this video the high ranking people in the dog world giving top honors to sick and defective dogs, talking about these breeds by glorifying continuous inbreeding, dismissing genetic and health issues, and ignoring historical breeding failures, makes them just as SICKENING as the BYB and puppymill breeder. IMO it's worse because they are hypocrites.




I'll take a puppy from a Hobby Breeder whose concerned about health anyday!

[JeanieK]

Hobby Breeders

We are not show breeders--- we put health and temperament before looks, we don't care about the ribbons

We are not puppy mills----- we do not mass produce, money is not our objective

We are not back yard breeders---- we have researched our breed and breeding practices and continue to learn, the health and welfare of our dogs comes first. We research and choose our breeding stock carefully, And we take responsibility for our puppies.

This is not to start an argument, it is to clarify exactly who we are.

Many people believe that if one is not a show breeder, they are either a puppy miller or a byb. We are non of the those. We do it because we love it and we love our dogs.

Our dogs are more than a status symbol or a dollar sign. Just like with any other hobby, we do it because we love to do it. We get our gratification from just having the dogs and raising healthy puppies, and improving on what we do.

[Cerise]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Hobby Breeders

We are not show breeders--- we put health and temperament before looks, we don't care about the ribbons

We are not puppy mills----- we do not mass produce, money is not our objective

We are not back yard breeders---- we have researched our breed and breeding practices and continue to learn, the health and welfare of our dogs comes first. We research and choose our breeding stock carefully, And we take responsibility for our puppies.

This is not to start an argument, it is to clarify exactly who we are.

Many people believe that if one is not a show breeder, they are either a puppy miller or a byb. We are non of the those. We do it because we love it and we love our dogs.

Our dogs are more than a status symbol or a dollar sign. Just like with any other hobby, we do it because we love to do it. We get our gratification from just having the dogs and raising healthy puppies, and improving on what we do.

[carmen in nj]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Hobby Breeders

We are not show breeders--- we put health and temperament before looks, we don't care about the ribbons

We are not puppy mills----- we do not mass produce, money is not our objective

We are not back yard breeders---- we have researched our breed and breeding practices and continue to learn, the health and welfare of our dogs comes first. We research and choose our breeding stock carefully, And we take responsibility for our puppies.

This is not to start an argument, it is to clarify exactly who we are.

Many people believe that if one is not a show breeder, they are either a puppy miller or a byb. We are non of the those. We do it because we love it and we love our dogs.

Our dogs are more than a status symbol or a dollar sign. Just like with any other hobby, we do it because we love to do it. We get our gratification from just having the dogs and raising healthy puppies, and improving on what we do.

I agree with that too.. my daughter is a jr.handler and we decided to show one of our dogs,so no ribbons or wins yet, hopefully one day that will come, she is just doing it for fun. is ok with me if she ever decides not to do it at some point, will I keep breeding my dogs, probably once a year like I been doing.. just for the love of my dogs and the benefit of the breed..
hugs,
Carmen in nj

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by Dixies Mom

I have dealt with 2 breeders that are fully aware of issues within their lines and they continue to breed and worse than that they continue to sell the dogs with open registrations. If they had to be held accountable and pay to keep that baby alive or free from pain maybe they would change their breeding practices.

Well lets one day hope they will be held accountable.

[chachi]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

If you ask the Dane brothers they are hobby breeders ...who determines what is what and why should any breeder have a hobby that costs me $$$...If it is a hobby the breeder should pay for all expenses..if you get what I mean. It really is all about how many puppies/cats are born a year and the glut of animals we have. The Hunt Corporation would pay a very high amount ... as they should as brokers.

The difference to me is that a puppy has no control if he/she is born or not and is controlled by whomever owns him/her. They have no choices. Human's have choices when it comes to wearing a seatbelt or not but again it boils down to the high cost of insurance (medical care). When I was a kid no one wore a seatbelt, now I don't know anyone who doesn't...I am sure it has helped bring down the cost of brain damage in auto accidents....big time.

I agree there is a fine line between who is a hobby breeder and who is a byb. And I know Jeff Dane thinks hes a hobby breeder

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Hobby Breeders

We are not show breeders--- we put health and temperament before looks, we don't care about the ribbons

Except I have seen what some Hobby breeders are producing and some of the Yorkies I have seen are not even Yorkies...If you look at some other breeds they cannot receive ribbons until they pass temperament test.

We are not puppy mills----- we do not mass produce, money is not our objective

We are not back yard breeders---- we have researched our breed and breeding practices and continue to learn, the health and welfare of our dogs comes first. We research and choose our breeding stock carefully, And we take responsibility for our puppies.

Personally unless you have been with a lot of other breeders of the breed I think it would be very difficult to pick good breeding stock. I have seen this with the Biewers..pictures/pedigree's do not tell a total story. It helps when you see 30 Biewers together to start seeing thin chests, to long in the body..so on and so forth.

This is not to start an argument, it is to clarify exactly who we are.

Many people believe that if one is not a show breeder, they are either a puppy miller or a byb. We are non of the those. We do it because we love it and we love our dogs.

But you also add to the pet overpopulation because of your Hobby. Knitters don't do this, nor do people who like to paint or play games on the computer...why are people allowed this Hobby but no one pays for my Hobbies?

Our dogs are more than a status symbol or a dollar sign. Just like with any other hobby, we do it because we love to do it. We get our gratification from just having the dogs and raising healthy puppies, and improving on what we do.

I will bet you the majority of breeders in the US who do not show will tell you they are Hobby breeders...so why do so many million animals have to die because of this hobby.

Please don't think I am opposed to breeding...I am not but I think it is totally out of control and we need to stop the slaughter of all of these animals and figure out how we are going to be a humane society and also have wonderful healthy purebred dogs.

[livingdustmops]

Originally Posted by chachi

I agree there is a fine line between who is a hobby breeder and who is a byb. And I know Jeff Dane thinks hes a hobby breeder

Yes it would be interesting to open his books. I will also say I am guessing most Hobby breeders do not claim any taxes on the $$$ they earn selling dogs or a lot of it is big lies.

Again if my hobby was knitting sweaters and I sold one for $500 I would have to declare income on it...how many Hobby breeders do you think do this?

[chachi]

If its a hobby theres too many people doing this hobby because too many animals are put to death each year. I know by saying that I am a little of a hypocrite because I got my yorkies from a breeder but now that I know better I will be going to a shelter or a rescue