Not the Puppy mills necessarily this time-all of us guilty

[Cerise]

Originally Posted by NewYorky

Thanks for the post, I am so glad that this documentary is being discussed here. Here we can to our part to turn the tide of opinion against inbreeding were it counts, among those who love and breed purebreeds or any dog.

Fifteen years or so ago, my family had our collective hearts broken by a purebred. It was a purebred boxer from generations of championship lines. Looking at his lineage chart is how I discovered line breeding to "set the breed". Our poor (or should I say puredog) dog was beset by allergies his entire life and he was barely ten when we had to put him down because he was crippled from a chronic, uncurable, degenerative disease of the spine. His gait became like the gait of the German Shepards in the documentary. I do believe it comes from breeding for a certain topline. It eventually leads to a totally paralyzed and suffering dog. The kids grew up with him we all loved him, losing him was like losing one of the family and made me very wary of purebreds. We all learn in basic Biology that inbreeding is limiting the gene pool which statistical increases the possibility of genetic based disease in ANY creature.

I now have two dogs, one is a mix between a westie and a maltese. The other is her son, from an accidental breeding with a purebred yorkie named Baxter I rescued from an abusive home. Baxter is how I came to join this forum. I would have kept dad too but Hubby insisted that we had to reduce the number of canines in the house, so I let my cousin, who positively loves dogs, have Baxter.

Sammy, their son, looks like a teapot Yorkie, I even have to tell the groomers he is not a big Yorkie (with floppy ears). Both are truly wonderful dogs and very healthy. Neither of them (so far) have any of the inherited maladies know to any of the three breeds they are mixed from and I hope they never will. Sam's father had slipping kneecaps, but Sam does not. I am glad of the designer "breed" movement, not because I believe in a name or think these are breeds at all, but because it is away to increase the gene pool for purebreds. Izzy is considered a "Highland Malty" to me she is just my Izzy and I do not care what she is.

After saying ALL of that, let me be clear I love the Yorkie and if my Dear Husband would let me I would have three dogs (I am working on him about that) the last would be a Yorkie! However, I would ask my breeder about the health of the lines the dog comes from, I would ask to see the lineage chart to check for inbreeding.

Let me also express my gratitude to responsible breeders, after just one liter, I see what they go through to breed these dogs we love and my hat is off to them that do it right! Izzy was immediately spayed and Sammy will also never be bred! Baxter is an example of a badly bred Yorkie, in no way does he approach the breed standard. The original owners purchased him from a slimy pet shop that buys puppy mill pups (I know the shop). That shop is a perfect argument for responsible breeding practices. Now we need to convince those that bred that inbreeding is a practice that is detrimental to the breed. Those who bred and those how buy must decide collectively that the health of these dogs is a paramount issue that must take precedent over appearance. That has got to be a part of our responsibility as dog owners and lovers.

I don't understand this statement. How is the "designer breed movement" mongrel, going to increase the gene pool for purebreds? Mixing two different breeds does not make a purebred dog or better the health of a breed.

[Heather of BFB]

I saw this documentary and was overwhelmed at what some are doing with their breeding practices. I believe it is essential to look at health issues over beauty. I didn't hear what the KC was beginning to do about it though. Thank you for sharing what was being done.

[NewYorky]

Originally Posted by Cerise

I don't understand this statement. How is the "designer breed movement" mongrel, going to increase the gene pool for purebreds? Mixing two different breeds does not make a purebred dog or better the health of a breed.

Allow me to elaborate:
I am not asserting that mating two differing purebreds is creating another purebred, nor am I focusing on the preservation of the pedigree. What I am raising is mating differing breeds can help the health of the progeny under the genus dog not classification of breed. Statistically one could decrease the inheritance of certain genetic diseases through the expansion of the gene pool.

This matter of introducing other breeds to improve the health of a particular pedigree of dog while maintaining pure breed designation gets really difficult, as referenced in an earlier post.

[Cerise]

Originally Posted by NewYorky

Allow me to elaborate:
I am not asserting that mating two differing purebreds is creating another purebred, nor am I focusing on the preservation of the pedigree. What I am raising is mating differing breeds can help the health of the progeny under the genus dog not classification of breed. Statistically one could decrease the inheritance of certain genetic diseases through the expansion of the gene pool.

This matter of introducing other breeds to improve the health of a particular pedigree of dog while maintaining pure breed designation gets really difficult, as referenced in an earlier post.

I'm not a Scientist, but I can say from what I have seen, and researched, that I don't agree.

Introducing another breed to improve the health of a particular pedigree of dog is not helping. In simple terms: Once mixed (introduced) it's mixed, likely to inherit issues from both breeds and create others. I actually know some women with mixed breeds who have spent too much free time during these last 15 years with serious vet visits for issues caused by genetics. Things that they didn't have any idea would happen because they don't know the pedigree line of their dogs. They think I'm nuts for believing in purebreds.

Bless them for trying to give these mixed dogs a good life, but I'm not a believer in mating different breeds intentionally. I do know that accidents happen when owning two types of breed, and some are extremely cute, but to do it intentionally...NO. It serves no great purpose to add something else to current problems. You don't know which side the dog will inherit it's traits from. There are vets, scientist, and others trying the argument that mixed is better, but with enough breeds to choose from already, IMO people should be trying to make the future for purebreds healthier within the current breeds.

Oh and those dogs didn't live for 15 years. They died early and the owners just went and saved another mixed one, and inherited problems...again.

[NewYorky]

Originally Posted by Cerise

I'm not a Scientist, but I can say from what I have seen, and researched, that I don't agree.

Introducing another breed to improve the health of a particular pedigree of dog is not helping. In simple terms: Once mixed (introduced) it's mixed, likely to inherit issues from both breeds and create others. I actually know some women with mixed breeds who have spent too much free time during these last 15 years with serious vet visits for issues caused by genetics. Things that they didn't have any idea would happen because they don't know the pedigree line of their dogs. They think I'm nuts for believing in purebreds.

Bless them for trying to give these mixed dogs a good life, but I'm not a believer in mating different breeds intentionally. I do know that accidents happen when owning two types of breed, and some are extremely cute, but to do it intentionally...NO. It serves no great purpose to add something else to current problems. You don't know which side the dog will inherit it's traits from. There are vets, scientist, and others trying the argument that mixed is better, but with enough breeds to choose from already, IMO people should be trying to make the future for purebreds healthier within the current breeds.

Oh and those dogs didn't live for 15 years. They died early and the owners just went and saved another mixed one, and inherited problems...again.

I do respect your opinion, but I respectfully am going to have to disagree with your contention that everyone should only breed purebred dogs. The overall health of the dogs would depend on how the individual dogs are selected for breeding, either mixed or pure. There are breeders of both who run the full range of the spectrum, bad to great. The numbers of each - who knows, I don't. Anecdotal accounts on either side are not anything to base an argument on, an opinion yes, a well thought out discussion - no. One would have to site scientific studies based on empirical data to debate this properly. I for one do not have the time nor inclination to do so. IMHO people should retain the right to choose whatever kind of dog they want pure or mixed. The one thing I will state we should all do is work to keep them healthy, happy and give back some of that love that they give so freely to us.

[inabowbina]

Breeding animals to human standard and likes is nothing new. All yorkies started out at 30 lb. they were all breed down to be smaller to what you have and like today. of course people are going to want smaller or bigger or cuter its all human nature.we always want better. Its sad but all just so true. the consequences are just not enough even if it means death sometimes. people do it to themselves too they risk their lives and health to have extreme plastic surgery or to loose weight just to look better. we don't always do what is healthy, but what makes us or things look better no matter what the cost.

[mommyofsophie]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

Here is the video:Documentary - BBC - Pedigree Dogs Exposed Video by bordercollie19 - MySpace Video
.”

This was heartbreaking, and I wept multiple times. Thank you for sharing this. I think everyone who owns, breeds, or wants to get a dog should see this so they can make informed decisions and advocate for animals.

[mommyofsophie]

Originally Posted by inabowbina

people do it to themselves too they risk their lives and health to have extreme plastic surgery or to loose weight just to look better. we don't always do what is healthy, but what makes us or things look better no matter what the cost.

Great point! Sad, but true for some people.

[inabowbina]

Well Most dog breeds are a result of human selection. Existing dog breeds began as mixed-breeds! either random-bred or by deliberate crosses of existing breeds. Studies that have been done in this area show that mixed-breeds on average are both healthier and longer-lived than their purebred cousins. This is because current accepted breeding practices within the pedigreed community results in a reduction in genetic diversity! and can result in physical characteristics that lead to disabilities

Originally Posted by Cerise

I'm not a Scientist, but I can say from what I have seen, and researched, that I don't agree.

Introducing another breed to improve the health of a particular pedigree of dog is not helping. In simple terms: Once mixed (introduced) it's mixed, likely to inherit issues from both breeds and create others. I actually know some women with mixed breeds who have spent too much free time during these last 15 years with serious vet visits for issues caused by genetics. Things that they didn't have any idea would happen because they don't know the pedigree line of their dogs. They think I'm nuts for believing in purebreds.

Bless them for trying to give these mixed dogs a good life, but I'm not a believer in mating different breeds intentionally. I do know that accidents happen when owning two types of breed, and some are extremely cute, but to do it intentionally...NO. It serves no great purpose to add something else to current problems. You don't know which side the dog will inherit it's traits from. There are vets, scientist, and others trying the argument that mixed is better, but with enough breeds to choose from already, IMO people should be trying to make the future for purebreds healthier within the current breeds.

Oh and those dogs didn't live for 15 years. They died early and the owners just went and saved another mixed one, and inherited problems...again.

[Cerise]

Originally Posted by inabowbina

Well Most dog breeds are a result of human selection. Existing dog breeds began as mixed-breeds! either random-bred or by deliberate crosses of existing breeds. Studies that have been done in this area show that mixed-breeds on average are both healthier and longer-lived than their purebred cousins. This is because current accepted breeding practices within the pedigreed community results in a reduction in genetic diversity! and can result in physical characteristics that lead to disabilities

Yes it's common knowledge that most existing breeds started out by mixing. But with all of the mixed breeds ending is shelters in this country EVERY DAY, let alone the purebreds, there is no NEED to keep mixing and mating all these breeds on a constant basis. The majority are mated for MONEY, not scientific research. And to justify the continuing birth of mutts, mongrels, or overbreeding of purebreds is absurd.