This is just sad....

[bailie]

sugars mom, u are one off the great breeders, and u care deeply for ur furbabies, i believe that is the way it shud be

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by shell820810

There is so much talk on here about BYB out to make money etc, but this thread just shows me that breeding is a business, and even for reputable breeders, it is about money.

Yes, you might be improving the breed/standard etc that backyard breeders arent, but at the end of the day, when the dog is no use, it is sold on/rehomed.

Why not keep it till the end of its days, in the environment and family it has been used to and accustomed to all its days? Yes, it might mean you have to wait a bit longer before you breed other dogs, or you would end up with too many, but is "your dog" not more important than "the breed"?

This thread shows me that there is still much misunderstanding in breeding. Of course the majority of breeders are doing it for profit, I recommend someone find a breeder who isn't profit motivated, and is really doing right by the breed, but the some of the things you mention are not harmful to the breed overall, and specifically not harmful to the individual dogs. Non-profit motivated breeders are breeding dogs where they know the line, and have done health testing; they are doing whatever they can to ensure that they are not producing pups that are going to weaken the Yorkshire Terrier Breed. They sell limited registration, with few exceptions, and then only after knowing another breeders breeding program for years. They sell the dogs to the best homes, not the highest bidder, and take time finding a home for their offspring, and ex-breeders. They don't breed whatever dog they have, and know that only certain dogs are meant to be bred. A breeder is more than a "pet owner," much more, and thank goodness we have some wonderful dedicated breeders or all we would have are puppy mill dogs and backyard breeder's dogs. The backyard breeder, tends to only have a couple of dogs, but is purely profit motivated, they in no way are doing what's best for the breed, and don't have any idea whether their own dogs are passing genetic faults or are even within standard. Standard is important because it's what sets the Yorkie apart from other breeds, and dogs that closely meet standard are much more likely to get placed if they end up in a rescue, so breeding to standard saves dog's lives.

I think some of you might find it interesting to read this thread: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...all-began.html. I think it's important that you understand breeding is a passion for some, it much more than a way to produce an income. Obviously, a good pet home is a much nicer environment that a breeding home, but I think some of you are criticizing good breeders unfairly. Arbitrary rules given in this thread, such as a dog should be bred twice and then retired, make absolutely no sense. There is nothing wrong with a breeder finding a good home for an ex-breeder, the qualities that make a good breeder (human or canine) are rare indeed, and some of you seem to think any human would be a good breeder, and anyone can purchase a dog that would be good breeding potential, and this is very far from the truth. I encourage everyone to visit the breeder's home in person to see what type of kennel conditions exist, and to decide for yourself whether this is the sort of breeder you wish to support. However, threads such as this, are unfairly criticizing good breeders. Sadly, it's still legal to euthanize a dog if it's no longer useful to them. This person paid for a spaying and paid for an ad in the paper, and probably will not get the price of the spaying from anyone, yet she is criticized. Is the situation ideal, no of course not, but I would rather this happen than every Tom Dick and Harry breeding whatever dogs they have as pets.

[bailie]

i understand what u are saying, and some breeders do an amazing job,, an i do love the way some have the pups neutered before they go to new homes, i cant believe that euthinasia is legal i find that heartbreaking really, its when u read that its not used to children etc,,, and the age, off course there is gonna be pet lovers that feels hurt, its a fine line really,,

[Dara311]

I can see good and bad in this ad. I see that she is concerned for the dog to find a nice home, however, I don't agree with the fact that she is sorta pushing her out since she is getting older, and can't breed her anymore....but, all in all, i hope the JRT finds a nice home!

[littlepixie12]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

see that's about what i got from it...i kinda took it to mean this dog was always outside in a kennel, never really loved or played with, not potty trained at all and just used to get good breeding out of over and over. i might be reading it wrong as well, but i didn't feel warm and fuzzy from that article, i felt bad for the dog and i do hope she finds a good home to love and care for her in her twilight years.

Actually I feel kind of bad for her. Im not a breeder so I dont know how these things work, but if I breed my female dog, I would keep her until she passed not giver her away or sell her because she cant breed anymore.. that is just my opinion, it may be naive but I wouldnt give up my baby

[shell820810]

Originally Posted by littlepixie12

Actually I feel kind of bad for her. Im not a breeder so I dont know how these things work, but if I breed my female dog, I would keep her until she passed not giver her away or sell her because she cant breed anymore.. that is just my opinion, it may be naive but I wouldnt give up my baby

Thats the point I was trying to make too.

[Sugar's Mom]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

This thread shows me that there is still much misunderstanding in breeding. Of course the majority of breeders are doing it for profit, I recommend someone find a breeder who isn't profit motivated, and is really doing right by the breed, but the some of the things you mention are not harmful to the breed overall, and specifically not harmful to the individual dogs. Non-profit motivated breeders are breeding dogs where they know the line, and have done health testing; they are doing whatever they can to ensure that they are not producing pups that are going to weaken the Yorkshire Terrier Breed. They sell limited registration, with few exceptions, and then only after knowing another breeders breeding program for years. They sell the dogs to the best homes, not the highest bidder, and take time finding a home for their offspring, and ex-breeders. They don't breed whatever dog they have, and know that only certain dogs are meant to be bred. A breeder is more than a "pet owner," much more, and thank goodness we have some wonderful dedicated breeders or all we would have are puppy mill dogs and backyard breeder's dogs. The backyard breeder, tends to only have a couple of dogs, but is purely profit motivated, they in no way are doing what's best for the breed, and don't have any idea whether their own dogs are passing genetic faults or are even within standard. Standard is important because it's what sets the Yorkie apart from other breeds, and dogs that closely meet standard are much more likely to get placed if they end up in a rescue, so breeding to standard saves dog's lives.

I think some of you might find it interesting to read this thread: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...all-began.html. I think it's important that you understand breeding is a passion for some, it much more than a way to produce an income. Obviously, a good pet home is a much nicer environment that a breeding home, but I think some of you are criticizing good breeders unfairly. Arbitrary rules given in this thread, such as a dog should be bred twice and then retired, make absolutely no sense. There is nothing wrong with a breeder finding a good home for an ex-breeder, the qualities that make a good breeder (human or canine) are rare indeed, and some of you seem to think any human would be a good breeder, and anyone can purchase a dog that would be good breeding potential, and this is very far from the truth. I encourage everyone to visit the breeder's home in person to see what type of kennel conditions exist, and to decide for yourself whether this is the sort of breeder you wish to support. However, threads such as this, are unfairly criticizing good breeders. Sadly, it's still legal to euthanize a dog if it's no longer useful to them. This person paid for a spaying and paid for an ad in the paper, and probably will not get the price of the spaying from anyone, yet she is criticized. Is the situation ideal, no of course not, but I would rather this happen than every Tom Dick and Harry breeding whatever dogs they have as pets.

this is a good post. What most people don't understand that those of us that do it like you are talking about, make very little money, if any. This thread smacks of people that would love to do away with breeders period. Altho their little pet puppies had to come from somewhere.

[Yorkiekids]

Although I don't agree with giving away your dog once your done using them. I personally couldn't do it, but I'm glad she's trying to find her a good home.

[CouversMom]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

this is a good post. What most people don't understand that those of us that do it like you are talking about, make very little money, if any. This thread smacks of people that would love to do away with breeders period. Altho their little pet puppies had to come from somewhere.

I do not think that anyone here wants to get rid of breeders altogether. We are just passionate about our dogs and the humane treatment of them.

I'm sorry, but a dog that have never been potty trained or felt carpet under its feet... that's sad! I do not care if this dog lived a better life than puppy mill dogs, I will still not accept it and say it lived a good life. Living in a kennel with outside access is not a good life. As people have said before, dogs are social creatures, and they yearn for our attention. I cannot imagine this poor dog's life having minimal human contact living its life only to reproduce.

I will not accept that this is a good life for a dog

[CouversMom]

I just thought I would add... I do understand having to re-home the dogs once they are past their prime, but I do not agree with keeping dogs in kennels with minimal human contact. That is what really gets me!

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

This thread shows me that there is still much misunderstanding in breeding. Of course the majority of breeders are doing it for profit, I recommend someone find a breeder who isn't profit motivated, and is really doing right by the breed, but the some of the things you mention are not harmful to the breed overall, and specifically not harmful to the individual dogs. Non-profit motivated breeders are breeding dogs where they know the line, and have done health testing; they are doing whatever they can to ensure that they are not producing pups that are going to weaken the Yorkshire Terrier Breed. They sell limited registration, with few exceptions, and then only after knowing another breeders breeding program for years. They sell the dogs to the best homes, not the highest bidder, and take time finding a home for their offspring, and ex-breeders. They don't breed whatever dog they have, and know that only certain dogs are meant to be bred. A breeder is more than a "pet owner," much more, and thank goodness we have some wonderful dedicated breeders or all we would have are puppy mill dogs and backyard breeder's dogs. The backyard breeder, tends to only have a couple of dogs, but is purely profit motivated, they in no way are doing what's best for the breed, and don't have any idea whether their own dogs are passing genetic faults or are even within standard. Standard is important because it's what sets the Yorkie apart from other breeds, and dogs that closely meet standard are much more likely to get placed if they end up in a rescue, so breeding to standard saves dog's lives.

I think some of you might find it interesting to read this thread: http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...all-began.html. I think it's important that you understand breeding is a passion for some, it much more than a way to produce an income. Obviously, a good pet home is a much nicer environment that a breeding home, but I think some of you are criticizing good breeders unfairly. Arbitrary rules given in this thread, such as a dog should be bred twice and then retired, make absolutely no sense. There is nothing wrong with a breeder finding a good home for an ex-breeder, the qualities that make a good breeder (human or canine) are rare indeed, and some of you seem to think any human would be a good breeder, and anyone can purchase a dog that would be good breeding potential, and this is very far from the truth. I encourage everyone to visit the breeder's home in person to see what type of kennel conditions exist, and to decide for yourself whether this is the sort of breeder you wish to support. However, threads such as this, are unfairly criticizing good breeders. Sadly, it's still legal to euthanize a dog if it's no longer useful to them. This person paid for a spaying and paid for an ad in the paper, and probably will not get the price of the spaying from anyone, yet she is criticized. Is the situation ideal, no of course not, but I would rather this happen than every Tom Dick and Harry breeding whatever dogs they have as pets.

I think you are being very unfair to, what you refer to as BYBs. I prefer "hobby breeder", and I have yet to make any kind of a profit. I breed because I enjoy breeding, but I'm sure not going to get rich from it. I do not breed to all of the YTCA standards, but I do breed healthy, good tempered, well socialized dogs.

Not all "bybs" are created equal, and not all show breeders have the best interest of the breed in mind. they are not doing it for profit, they are doing it for the "Blue ribbon".

Many breeds have health issues due to the selective show breeding. If the dog is a champion on the outside, many show breeders do not care what is going on, on the inside.

Judges know that dogs with flat faces have breathing issues, yet the flatter the face the more likely they are to win the ribbons. GSDs crouch because their hind quarters are weak, GSDs of the past did not have that crouch. King Charles Spaniels have weak hearts deafness and siezures due to their flat skuls, but the flatter the skull the better the chance of winning.

So to all of you who do not know better, don't let the title "show breeder' fool you.

There are good and bad hobby breeders and good and bad show breeders.

In fact many show breeders have quit showing because they did not like the way the breed was going. But they enjoy breeding so now they are considered BYB's.

[KimberlySRN]

This topic is a difficult topic because there are so many components to it. I think it is sad when the quality of life of a dog is decreased because it is a breeder. But on the other hand we can't fairly group all breeders together. I understand when breeders have to find dogs that are a part of their breeding program a home.
Lace was a breeder. She had one litter and required a C-section, so she was fixed and she found her way into our family. The breeder was not concerned about money, she was fixed, up to date on everything including a vet check. Lace's first mommy was not throwing her aside. She was just as a part of that family as any of the other dogs. She was spoiled and loved and well taken care of. When it was time for her to come home (with my sister) the breeder and her family was there to see her off. We give her updates all the time with pictures. We are all going to visit soon so she can see them all in person.
So I don't see the problem with breeders re-homing their breeding dogs. I can see if the dog was not fixed, not up to date on anything and the breeder was casting their dog away to the first bidder. In this particular situation...of course it is not ideal. I couldn't imagine a dog living outside of a home. But I also don't agree with outside dogs. I can see having a doggie door giving the dog access to outside but a strictly outside dog is sad. This breeder seems to have a set up to make her dogs comfortable...with the Ac/heating etc... I find it sad the way she worded it. But I find her situation, while not ideal, better than most. The dog is fixed, current on vaccinations, and she is not asking an outrageous price for a purebred dog...$50...in my opinion she should be asking more because anyone off the streets can pay that much. If you go to a rescue they are asking a lot more than that. I can see the point of view of thinking that breeders are in it for the money and don't care about their animals....but you cannot whole heartedly say that about all. There are breeders out there that spend all they have to save one of their babies, that stay up all night long trying to keep that little one alive, that do it because they truly love and want to preserve the breed. Just because you don't show, I don't think that makes you a miller or a BYB.
When I picked my breeder I was looking for someone that truly cared for their yorkies. No she doesn't show...but she does the required testing that every breeder should do, she loves every single yorkie that is in her home and that she has brought into this world. She answers every question that I have ever had pop into my head; she was there for me when I vowed never to get another dog. She does use the term "tinies", "teddy bear face", and "teacup" from time to time, but I know she loves this breed. She keeps her yorkies in her home and raises them all as if she was keeping them forever and makes sure they find great homes. She has had people offer her ridiculous amounts of money and still stood her ground when she decided they were not the perfect home for her yorkies. So to say that they are in it for the money may be true for some, but we can't group every breeder into one category.

Sorry for the rant...but this topic has come up time and time again...

[Crestwing]

Dogs adapt fairly quickly to new homes. Just go ask the humane society that have to place many older dogs. This breeder had enough compassion to want her older dog to have some loving undivided attention which is hard when you have several dogs. Having her spayed also tells how compassionate she is also telling all she knows about her not pulling the wool over anyones eyes. A JRT and most small dogs can sometimes live to eighteen yrs old. So lets actually give her kudos for spaying her and trying to find a good home for her to be spoiled rotten and not dropping her off at the pound. You would not believe how many people email me to ask if I have an adult available. They do not want to raise a puppy. Adult dogs actually learn quicker than a puppy. So lets give her some credit for being a responsible breeder. I am sure if you talked to the people who have this dog's puppies they would say they were so glad they found her and their little puppy is the best gift to come into their life. Sue

[lil fu fu girl]

Originally Posted by Sugar's Mom

this is a good post. What most people don't understand that those of us that do it like you are talking about, make very little money, if any. This thread smacks of people that would love to do away with breeders period. Altho their little pet puppies had to come from somewhere.

I do not believe that this is the summation of the feelings being displayed here. I do not know you, or know what kind of breeder you are.
What I do know is that there are 3 past-prime, previously used for breeding, female yorkies in a rescue I am affiliated with, and each of them were brought in by so called, "quality" breeders who could not sell them once their breeding time was at an end. When asked why they were being brought to the rescue, their answers were all the same. "I don't have room/time for my darling girl anymore, as I have a new female to breed, and this one is no longer in breeding age".

So I ask again, and no one seems to want to respond.

What do you think she is going to do with her darling , and I quote,
"She has been my best producing female " if she cannot sell her?

I can tell you; she will end up in a rescue like mine, and someone who is humane will take her home and take over the responsibility that was the original owners; the person who made money off her health and puppies.

I am in no way insinuating that this is how you behave with your animals, but clearly, it is the way a lot do. So, while most might not understand about breeding... believe me, I surely understand what it takes to clean up the mess that is left.

[CouversMom]

Originally Posted by lil fu fu girl

I do not believe that this is the summation of the feelings being displayed here. I do not know you, or know what kind of breeder you are.
What I do know is that there are 3 past-prime, previously used for breeding, female yorkies in a rescue I am affiliated with, and each of them were brought in by so called, "quality" breeders who could not sell them once their breeding time was at an end. When asked why they were being brought to the rescue, their answers were all the same. "I don't have room/time for my darling girl anymore, as I have a new female to breed, and this one is no longer in breeding age".

So I ask again, and no one seems to want to respond.

What do you think she is going to do with her darling , and I quote,
"She has been my best producing female " if she cannot sell her?

I can tell you; she will end up in a rescue like mine, and someone who is humane will take her home and take over the responsibility that was the original owners; the person who made money off her health and puppies.

I am in no way insinuating that this is how you behave with your animals, but clearly, it is the way a lot do. So, while most might not understand about breeding... believe me, I surely understand what it takes to clean up the mess that is left.

Great post. Thank you for offering another perspective on this problem.