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10-04-2009, 06:21 PM | #1 |
Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Jasper, AL
Posts: 15
| It all began... To make a long story short (or hey, keep it long!)... How did you guys get into breeding dogs? Where did it all begin? How did you learn? What were the early days like? Go! |
Welcome Guest! | |
10-04-2009, 06:35 PM | #2 |
Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California
Posts: 14,776
| It began with buying a pet yorkie, then a year later buying another pet. Then joining a regional yorkie breed club to learn more about the yorkie breed and how to properly care for my 2. Then because most of the members in the regional club were exhibitors, I began attending shows. When attending shows, I did a lot fetching and gopher work, assisting friends and learning as much as I could. Deciding on the type I liked, structure, coat, temperament, virtually everything I could soak up. Then I got bit by the show bug.....began researching breeders and pedigrees. It happened that the breeder I picked was a long time breeder/exhibitor. I approached her for a show dog. I waited for a year and a half before she trusted me with one. I traveled with her and her handler for about a year (he handled my first show dog) and they both taught me how to groom, train and present a yorkie before she allowed me into the ring. She taught me the art of breeding, I had to learn genetics, pedigrees, and had to I finished 3 Champions, assisted her with many whelpings before she allowed me to breed. I then began handling her dogs too. Much more to this story, but that's along story, short.
__________________ Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers |
10-05-2009, 06:49 AM | #3 |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: northern ireland
Posts: 947
| that certainly is the proper way,spelt wrong
__________________ my beautiful sole mates,, beau,sonny,gino,frazer R.I.P my fallen angel bailie 97-2012 Last edited by bailie; 10-05-2009 at 06:51 AM. |
10-05-2009, 06:53 AM | #4 |
YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: northern ireland
Posts: 947
| ps ur aviator i mean ,
__________________ my beautiful sole mates,, beau,sonny,gino,frazer R.I.P my fallen angel bailie 97-2012 |
10-05-2009, 07:01 AM | #5 |
Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: May 2007 Location: Beaumont Texas
Posts: 285
| I guess my reply is in the long category Mardelin’s advice is exactly how one should begin. Nothing beats seeing the best and starting with that goal in mind. I was fortunate enough to have parents who worked with Scottish Terriers and Upland Game Dogs..... I'm not sure where the beginning was for me, it was just something natural to me that I always knew and loved.... For several years, I worked exclusively training English Pointers and Setters for field trials and several corporate bird reserves, but did very little breeding.... Training a game dogs, who are expected to perform, is quite intense and took most of my time. I had a break for a few years and then decided I wanted to go back to working / studying dogs. I knew, though, I wanted to work with a smaller breed as my human family began to grow. I began researching small, but spirited dogs genetically similar to the Scottish terrier, so I settled on Yorkies... Purchased a really sweet, female and the rest is history, I guess… Even though I had a great deal of experience in genetics, it was still important to go back and focus on breed specific elements. Mardelin really stressed the need for learning from those who know the breed, and she is very right. Even though I certainly had my parent’s at my right hand for help, I still searched out a mentor who specialized in Yorkies. Her experience and willingness to help really made the difference for me. I do not currently show, but spend many hours a day peering through a microscope, scripting data for food manufacturers, and recording analysis of new medications, vaccinations, ect…. I hope in some way, my work on the scientific end adds to the longevity and health of all breeds. It is been really good and really bad, depends on the day you ask.... I can say without hesitation, I wouldn't want to do anything else.... Grooming, boarding, limited training and research studies help me keep my small breeding program floating.…. Breeding is a highly personal endeavor and the best advice I can give is to diligently learn. Some just skim the surface, but I mean really learn. Read everything you can get your hands on (anything by Willis is great), there is such a wealth of material out there and most breeders don’t mind helping… I think that is why so many on this board are frustrated when some post, “I’ve bred my dogs, now what?”…. There is just no excuse for not knowing as the information is readily available…. It all comes down to passion, not matter what the profession… Anyway, this is getting long, so I am adding the story that made the difference for me… Hopefully it both enlightens and encourages: Every breeder started somewhere…. Let me tell you the story of our humble beginning as something to consider. I had an excellent mentor….. She was passing the torch of 25 years of knowledge and experience to me (how lucky was I?)…. My second litter was due being whelped by my most beautiful dog (not to mention that I was also attached to her as much as I was my children)…. Talk about a textbook pregnancy…. 42nd day ultrasound showed 6 very well proportioned, small puppies…. Delivery started…..no distress….easy labor on the first puppy… then nothing….and nothing… I was prepared…. I had read all of the books…. Not to fear, middle of the day, no emergency call…. We headed to the vet just to be sure (12 miles)….she died in my hands as I walked through the office door…. I called my mentor in horror and unbelievable grief….she said, “you’ll know in a few weeks if this is for you.” …. She said that because I had 6 very tiny puppies (5 saved through c/s) that needed to be nursed every two hours for weeks….I buried my Gizmo where our new kennel stands today and got started with her babies…..I would hardly close my eyes b/f it was time to feed again….two weeks into it, one just didn’t thrive….now I was at wit’s end….three days later one aspirated on the feeding tube….I was done, called my mentor and told her to come get them all… she said, “no, this was your choice”…. 20 or so weeks later of round the clock care, One by one, these tiny replicas of their mom, of whom I had become a surrogate mother, were picked up by new owners. To this day, I still grieve for my Gizmo, to this day I still check up on every puppy I sell… I’ve shoveled truck loads of poop, dried gallons of pee, built kennels, torn down kennels, delivered puppies at 2:00 am on every holiday celebrated by man (even my kids birthday parties which I had to miss)….Breeding is a complete sacrifice of everything else when the moment counts b/c your female is counting on you for everything….If you bring puppies into this world they are your responsibility and yours alone. My mentor made that quite clear to me. If you do not have the ability to deal with the difficulties with the same passion as you delight in the rewards, keep you little girl as a pet….. If you do have the ability, this could be the blooming of a wonderful new career…one that I love more with every pooper scooper full…. |
10-05-2009, 08:14 AM | #6 | |
Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California
Posts: 14,776
| Quote:
__________________ Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers | |
10-05-2009, 10:52 AM | #7 |
Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Jasper, AL
Posts: 15
| My husband and I are ready to put together the pieces we've been building seperately over the years. Its been a slow process with no clear focus until now. Its hard to say why we've chosen yorkies... When I lived with my parents we had a tiny yorkie girl that was such a joy. My grandmother (who raised me) has always had such a love for yorkies and passed that on to me. In my last marriage I had large dogs (Weimaraners)... when my husband and I decided to go ahead and pursue breeding/showing the discussion kept leading us to yorkies, it just feels right... almost like its what we're supposed to do. Neither of us have ever bred dogs before. We've both wanted to and been very interested in genetics and standards. He is an engineer and is wired to want to understand and perfect something. We dont want to breed for money but more for... this is hard to put into words... but for a goal. Each time we breed it should be for a goal of improving. We know it takes many years of experience and perfecting but we want to create champions. I've always tended to be very critical of breeders because the majority of breeders out there are doing it for the wrong reasons. I have to bite my tongue around family and friends that want to breed their family dog to "see her puppies" and "show the kids how puppies grow" and "because she deserves it" when that family dog has skin problems or eye problems or temperament problems. I dont understand how people can be so... well, you guys know what I'm saying. Why are people like that? Dont they understand what they're doing? I'm guessing they DONT understand because their intenetions are not bad. Its very frustrating to me. In the end I know that its not BREEDING thats bad - breeding can be just as GOOD as it is BAD when done the right way. I'm not doing a bad thing if I'm breeding for the right reasons and in the right ways. The right reason is to improve the breed by conforming to standard - the right way is by making educated decisions in our breeding program. The pieces we have right now: -a personal desire to hold myself to a high standard when it comes to the care of my dogs and the outcomes of my breeding program. -I've worked in animal hospitals and managed a pet store. This brings a bank of knowledge on the medical and routine care of animals along with experience with all ages of dogs and pregnant mothers and what can go wrong. -My uncle has been breeding and showing champion dogs for decades. -Made a website for a breeder that is heavily interested in genetics, I learned a lot from her labradoodle program. -Ashley, the yorkie family dog -countless books and websites that we've been pouring over that relate to standard, genetics, puppies, whelping, pregnancy... -rescue involvement (weimaraner and springer spaniel). -and now this forum, a wealth of information on all subjects specific to the Yorkie. The next step is to make contacts and visit with and speak to people. We've got a lists of dates for shows we're going to go to and we're going to start visiting breeders. The visiting part is probably just going to fire us up even more. Pull out the local paper and there are TONS of yorkies for sale... I can only imagine what people are breeding because "Fifi deserves to have puppies and I want the kids to see the birth". A take home message from a statistics class years ago... the best way to minimize "error" is to have the most reliable "measurement". By joining this forum and making reliable contacts we stand to minimize the mistakes we make over the process. We want to learn and are open to any and all suggestions! Here is a big thank you ahead of time for everyone that helps us along the way. ~Angela |
10-05-2009, 01:58 PM | #8 |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: GA
Posts: 3,787
| I was so lucky when I had my first litter - I worked as a vet tech and had seen several litters whelped. I also had my boss, who was my vet ready for any emergencies that might arise. Showing and grooming skills came from my breed club mentors and whelping experience and knowledge all came from my vet/boss. I also had to learn from reading a lot of books and I learned as I went through my own experiences. I knew I could not just depend on others -you have to dig in and book learn yourself too. I hate the whelping part of all this I must say. I love the showing so much better, not so much at risk. Maybe that is the reason I do not breed much. When I finally decided to breed for the very first time I tried to make the best match I could, trying to get the best out of the pedigrees and also make a match of how they both look like in person against the standard. I learned my girl's faults and good points and tried to make the best match not to double up on anything. I always tried to make sure first though that my dogs were worth breeding as well - reason showing is so grounded in my breeding program. I still believe this now. My very first litter ever was (AKC) championed sired, by a really good champion and so gorgeous!! I can still remember him to this day. What a coat and structure too!! I just knew that if I was going to do this - I wanted to make sure I did the best possible. If you want to do the best - nothing is impossible and you have to make it happened. |
10-05-2009, 02:08 PM | #9 |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: GA
Posts: 3,787
| What I meant by not doubling anything - I am talking about faults. You have to make sure the pair do not have any major faults. And any minor faults are not doubled up on. Pedigrees are good to know what is behind them, but you must also make judgement especially how the sire and dam are in real life. What can look gorgeous on paper, might not always be as good in real life. But you can not avoid looking at the pedigree either. It gives you a peek into what my be the outcome. It drives me crazy when people do not know the pedigree on their dog they are breeding and do not learn the standard. Nor know for sure if their dog is really worth breeding. Okay - I am going to bite my tongue here. Last edited by topknot; 10-05-2009 at 02:12 PM. |
10-05-2009, 02:25 PM | #10 |
Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Jasper, AL
Posts: 15
| We've been studying the standard and looking at pictures of dogs and talking about them together... that way we've got two sets of eyes working together. We have been discussing ways to offset faults (not doubling, finding one that is really strong where the other has a minor fault) to do the best we can. We've been noticing common faults that really stand out in poorly bred dogs. Do most (good... GREAT) breeders keep or even HAVE pictures of relative dogs? not only the parents of a certain dog but grandparents and litter mates of the dog, the parents and grandparents? During our "yorkie time" tonight we're going to research and discuss how to evaluate the personality and quality of a puppy... We'll try to read as much on it as we can but I feel that a lot of that is simply going to come from experience. I love looking at puppy pictures and seeing the dog change over time. The puppies look sooooooo much alike but the adult dogs have marked differences, is it a total guessing game as to what the adult will look like or can you start to see changes that clue you in? I know people sell "show quality" puppies, I want to be able to recognize one. While I work on chemistry and physics homework this week, Hubby's homework is to find us a breeder friendly vet that is CLOSE to us. I think it will end up being Paris's (our springer spaniel) vet but we're going to "interview" all of them to make sure. The vets I assisted are all 45 mins away and I need someone MUUUCH closer than that. ... putting the pieces together...!!! |
10-05-2009, 02:35 PM | #11 |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: GA
Posts: 3,787
| Yes, you will need a closer vet. And one major question I asked - do you do c-sections for emergencies - just in case. Most of the vets in my area do not do c-sections in off hours and I will never use the emergency vet clinic in my area again!! What dummies - based on what happen to me!! Also - do not just look at photos - you really have to go to the shows and watch the movements, see color, texture of coats, etc... on the real thing! Try Welcome to Sweety Blue Yorkshire Terriers Home Page to help you in your pedigree research. You can also google and get some information come up if they are champions or at least showing. You can also use the Superintents like Onofrio to help pull up show enteries and see who won. |
10-05-2009, 02:52 PM | #12 |
Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California
Posts: 14,776
| Your question if breeder/exhibitors keep pics of relative dogs. Yes, they also keep in touch with people that they have placed dogs with. One must keep track of relative dogs and their offspring as well as siblings. The thing to remember besides studying, studying and it never stops, is that you must start with the best foundation your money can buy. And be patient don't buy the first person that will sell you a dog with open registration. As one breeder/exhibitor on here has stated there are no short cuts, if you want a short cut go to a barber. The other thing is to build trust with breeders, to see that your heart is in the right place and not in it for the money....That trust will enable you to obtain that quality show puppy. Since yorkies cannot be bred pheno type to pheno type. Learn your pedigrees. The first 3 generations within a pedigree are the most important. The Sire and Dam contribute 50% of a pups genetic make, the Grandsire and Granddam contribute 25% and the great Grandsire and Granddam 12% anything beyond that is worthless, unless you find a dog several times within the pedigree. Good breeders know these pedigrees backward and forward.....
__________________ Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Last edited by Mardelin; 10-05-2009 at 02:53 PM. |
10-05-2009, 03:20 PM | #13 |
Donating YT 2000 Club Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: GA
Posts: 3,787
| Mary is so right!!! Mary - you are so much better with words than me - love the barber comment but so true! If you are going to do it right - you must be patient and do not take short cuts!! All it does is waste time, money, and you will produce substandard. I have heard of so many people taking short cuts since they were in a hurry to get started and then had to back up and retry years later. Yes, we all have to start somewhere, but if you are patient, start with something really nice, and do things right - one is so much better off. Last edited by topknot; 10-05-2009 at 03:25 PM. |
10-05-2009, 04:17 PM | #14 |
Yorkie Talker Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Jasper, AL
Posts: 15
| We're so excited to get started but we understand how important it is to do the best we can from the start... I'm excited about getting to some shows, its looking like we may be able to go to two this month and two in November, one in January and one in February. anybody showing in the southeast soon? |
10-05-2009, 04:20 PM | #15 | |
Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Donating Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: California
Posts: 14,776
| Quote:
By the way do you subscribe to the Yorkshire Terrier Magazine there is also an online Magazine E Yorkshire Terriers
__________________ Mardelin Yorkshire Terriers Last edited by Mardelin; 10-05-2009 at 04:22 PM. | |
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