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-   General Yorkshire Terrier Discussion (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/)
-   -   "Parti Yorkies" What's your opinion (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/183625-parti-yorkies-whats-your-opinion.html)

yorkiegirl2 10-28-2009 12:23 PM
1 Attachment(s)
I agree this has been a very civil discussion.
I've been reading this thread from the beginning.

The info on lines and such has been very informative.
Since I have been studying the Parti’s and the lines for the last few years.
I’ve always wondered where the Nikko lines originated.

While I couldn’t afford to spring for a Full Parti .
I did however find a very nice little carrier boy with the CA. lines.
And hope to next year to find a nice carrier female to go with him.

I am proud to introduce my new boy Gizmo.

kpstoybox 10-28-2009 12:24 PM
[QUOTE=Nancy1999;2857867]:thumbup:
I agree with this, and I believe that one of the reasons so many people can't see the differences between the Parti and the Biewer is that BOTH sides do not trace back, they are diluting the gene pool every time they breed back to the Yorkie, either with traditional yorkies or parti colored yorkies.

By the way, for those who breed parti to biewer, why aren't the offspring called or sold as parti puppies instead of biewers? Is it only because they they can't be AKC registered?[/QUOTE]


I bred my parti male to my Biewer female to produce a litter of Biewer Yorkies. I'm sorry...I don't know if you know anything about the German registries...but my club STILL accepts that pairing and DOES register the resulting pups as Biewers.

3FurryFaces 10-28-2009 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 2857955)
Hmmm...IMO...just as many parti marked Biewers are being born to supposed "true German heritage Biewers that haven't been deluted with anything but that same Biewer lines. I have had white bodied pups born from my two "true" German Biewers.

In fact...wasn't an almost all white Biewer puppy...who happens to be out of two "true German heritage Biewers"...recently shown at the Candian Specialty?
When you say white bodied, does that mean no color or saddle on your Biewer? The BBCA standard states body white has to be pure white on belly and legs, but does not say you have to have color elsewhere (not including the head fall colors). So does a Biewer meet that standard if it has no coloring on the body (excluding the required tricolor symmetrical head)?

Breny 10-28-2009 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkiegirl2 (Post 2857998)
I agree this has been a very civil discussion.
I've been reading this thread from the beginning.

The info on lines and such has been very informative.
Since I have been studying the Parti’s and the lines for the last few years.
I’ve always wondered where the Nikko lines originated.

While I couldn’t afford to spring for a Full Parti .
I did however find a very nice little carrier boy with the CA. lines.
And hope to next year to find a nice carrier female to go with him.

I am proud to introduce my new boy Gizmo.
Congrats on your new boy! :)

3FurryFaces 10-28-2009 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 2857962)
Isnt that why some allow the breeding back to the traditional color to keep the white from taking over?
Are both AKC partis and BBCA Biewers bred back to traditionals to control the degree of white color? And is this a widely held method or is this controversial?

bchgirl 10-28-2009 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3FurryFaces (Post 2858002)
When you say white bodied, does that mean no color or saddle on your Biewer? The BBCA standard states body white has to be pure white on belly and legs, but does not say you have to have color elsewhere (not including the head fall colors). So does a Biewer meet that standard if it has no coloring on the body (excluding the required tricolor symmetrical head)?
Their backs may be black/blue, white, or a mixture of the two. It is usually personal preference.

Breny 10-28-2009 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2857867)
:thumbup:
I agree with this, and I believe that one of the reasons so many people can't see the differences between the Parti and the Biewer is that BOTH sides do not trace back, they are diluting the gene pool every time they breed back to the Yorkie, either with traditional yorkies or parti colored yorkies.

By the way, for those who breed parti to biewer, why aren't the offspring called or sold as parti puppies instead of biewers? Is it only because they they can't be AKC registered?
My pups were sold as Biewers, as that is what they are.

yorkiegirl2 10-28-2009 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breny (Post 2858013)
Congrats on your new boy! :)
Thanks Breny
I'm really excited about him....:D

bchgirl 10-28-2009 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpstoybox (Post 2857955)
Hmmm...IMO...just as many parti marked Biewers are being born to supposed "true German heritage Biewers that haven't been deluted with anything but that same Biewer lines. I have had white bodied pups born from my two "true" German Biewers.

In fact...wasn't an almost all white Biewer puppy...who happens to be out of two "true German heritage Biewers"...recently shown at the Candian Specialty?
The fact remains deviating from the line will dilutes phenotype.

And yes one was shown. There are no dis-qualifications listed for biewers in the show ring...only faults which are weighed against the dog's other attributes. Dogs with one dark leg are shown all the time too.

3FurryFaces 10-28-2009 12:50 PM
I have been googling Biewers since this thread started and reading as much as I can. I think I have found a site which explains some of the registries and recognizing "authorities" on them. For those of you with Biewers, is this accurate information?Biewer Frequently Asked Questions
Thanks!

bchgirl 10-28-2009 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezeaway (Post 2857962)
Isnt that why some allow the breeding back to the traditional color to keep the white from taking over?
Genetically this won't work. Just as there is phenotype for biewers...there is phenotype for yorkshire terriers. You can't pick and chose which will be given in a pairing such as this.

3FurryFaces 10-28-2009 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchgirl (Post 2858044)
Genetically this won't work. Just as there is phenotype for biewers...there is phenotype for yorkshire terriers. You can't pick and chose which will be given in a pairing such as this.
From what I learned in genetics, breeding back has its pros and cons. You can strenghthen a quality, but you can also bring back a lot of unknowns which may not show up for generations. It is much like the debate between strict line breeding and out crossing. There are 2 distinct theories and each one has its merits.

kpstoybox 10-28-2009 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bchgirl (Post 2857947)
The Durrer line and Parquin line of yorkshire terriers were breeding toward a standard already developed and setting a phenotype towards that goal.

I like the lineage behind the biewer lines. That's what I like to see perserved...the lineage. Much like whoever developed the Nikko line of parti's went to the trouble of having the dogs dna'd and vertified so that they may be AKC registered. They were preserving the lineage. :)
Purebred yorkies are what's behind all the Biewer lines!! And a lot of health problems as well. My Biewers are registered in Germany as Biewer Yorkshire's. Not Biewers, and certainly not Biewer Terriers.

Until Germany closes the stud book...breeders who truly care about the Biewers future health have the right to breed a quality and health tested yorkie back into the lines. It has been done this way since the first Biewer was born.

It wasn't until us Americans got a hold of it a mere 7 years ago that we felt we had the right to change the name, change the standard, etc...just to make it our own breed. It's a tri colored German Yorkie. It always has been!!

If you choose to breed to a small gene pool, over and over...that is your right. I would never try and force my breeding philosophies on you or your clubs breeding practices. I am sure you will do the same for those who don't share your same views on the Biewer Yorkie.

3FurryFaces 10-28-2009 01:33 PM
Can someone explain to me how an open or closed stud book affects breeding practices? Not being facitious, just asking for information...

kpstoybox 10-28-2009 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3FurryFaces (Post 2858002)
When you say white bodied, does that mean no color or saddle on your Biewer? The BBCA standard states body white has to be pure white on belly and legs, but does not say you have to have color elsewhere (not including the head fall colors). So does a Biewer meet that standard if it has no coloring on the body (excluding the required tricolor symmetrical head)?

Yes...many biewers being born today have none, or very little color on their bodies. Many do not have the symmetrical markings on the head either, with little to no white on the head and face.

The Biewer standard calls for "Rather white or blue-white broken or closely blue absolute, or black, without brown coloring. Hair on the breast, pure white on the belly, and the legs. The head with White-blue-gold, symmetrical colored".

I keep hearing over and over how the Biewer is different then the parti because it has a standard. Yet half the Biewers being born do not conform to the standard and should be neutered and spayed... not shown and bred.

Just as many parti's are born with so-called Biewer markings.


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