Originally Posted by FlDebra (Post 2782041)

Rachel -- You asked why dogs that meet the standard cannot just be registered as AKC? I would like to answer that. You can even take a mixed breeding and get some puppies that look like pure-bred dogs. They may even mature into dogs that meet the standard. But their DNA still contains parts from both of its parents! Some of the registries will take a picture of that dog and register it. Now, an unsuspecting newbie to breeding that just wants to breed for warm fuzzy puppies, breeds that dog with another "purebred" -- say that "purebred" was the product of a similar mating. Suddenly the puppies just do not look right. Some may be really off but some may look similar to a purebred pup. More unsuspecting customers buy these puppies and they start to mature looking NOTHING like the standard, nothing like the customer had in mind......Now, maybe they needed a small dog for the space they had, maybe they had another small dog that needed a like playmate, maybe they had a lease that only allowed small dogs and suddenly they had a 15 pounder! (I use this only as an example, it could be turned around for someone wanting a large dog and it winding up being too tiny too). The same sort of breeder that does this usually does not care about temperment either, so these puppies may wind up being aggressive, furtive, not easily trained or socialized. Now multiply this by all of the people breeding like this. How long do you suppose we could keep a yorkie looking like a yorkie? How long do you think we could keep all of the wonderful characteristics that were painstakingly bred into the Yorkie over many, many years?

When you speak of breeding, you have to look beyond how it affected the one puppy you are looking at. How is it affecting the future of the breed? Also keep in mind that many genetic problems do not surface for a year, two or longer. Just because someone is fortunate to bring home a healthy puppy at a few weeks of age, does not mean they will not find problems over the long haul.

You also said that the puppies in pounds and shelters are not purebreds. I think many have told you that is not true. Many of the purebreds are picked up by their breed Rescue organizations before you might see them in the pound. There are several Yorkie Rescues represented by member here on YT. They can tell you that there are never enough to take care of all of the Yorkies turned in for one reason or another. Many of the Yorkie mixes are the result of exactly what you were asking before. Why not register all those that look like Yorkies as AKC -- because many will have puppies looking like those mixes you see in the pound.

Then you go on to say it is dog owners not dog breeders fault for the dogs in pounds and shelters. Ask how many of those dogs are there because they did not turn out the way they were advertised. Supposed "Purebred" puppies with dubious registries not looking like they should, having temperment problems, health problems, genetic features the owners did not want. Should the breeders not share in that blame? I think so -- a customer has the right to believe their Yorkie will grow up to look like a Yorkie and be healthy.

Not all AKC bred dogs will be perfect either and some of them may find their way to a rescue. The registry is only one aspect of what to look for when researching for a well-bred pet. But at least AKC provides for rules, regulations, inspections, follow up and not only that -- a portion of your money goes for public information, animal rights lobbying, etc....

BTW you also said: "i'm sure with AKC the kennel chooses the full length name bases on the lineage of the dog." and that is not true -- AKC allows the new owner to pick the name of the puppy as well. It is tradition to include the kennel's name but not required. Maybe it would be a good itdea to have an open mind more often than being so "sure" of things you are new to.

Originally Posted by yorkie_mama22 (Post 2782044)

I'm probably not a favourite on here for some but I don't ever intend to be rude. I feel very strongly about the APRI and the poor dogs who are tortured into breeding just for the heck of it. I hope you don't take this the wrong way but I like to the time to speak about my girl ANY chance I get, not because I want to lecture or be mean, because my heart was broken over and over again about the place my baby came from! Being born in a cage, taken from her mom too soon, being scared all her life :( It breaks my heart to see dogs suffering. I don't support APRI, because they know what kind of places their dogs come from and they DONT CARE as long as they get money. I know you know this and I am not jumping on you personally, I just feel so passionte about these dogs. I saw the video of the puppymill Stormy came from and it hurts so much.

I also volunteered at our shelter and I saw LOTS of purebreds. Lots of old ones that people got rid of just because they felt like it. I would sit and cry each visit because I couldn't save them all. I would play with them, hold them and tell them how special they were because these dogs in these places are SO loving all they want is to be loved and they are SO grateful to get a home. Our boxer we got from a shelter 10+ hours away, which I find out now that province is well known for mills, she was brought to the shelter because she got too big and wasn't a cute puppy. She is the most loving dog ever, she was so grateful to have a home, she is 8 years old now and starting to get the effects of probably being a mill dog. I haven't bought a dog from a reputable breeder yet, I get re homs usually because I have a big heart for the under dogs.

Let me correct myself, my fiancee bought his dog from a good breeder for alot of money. But personally myself I love to give the dogs who need a home a new home. Maybe one day I can buy an expensive puppy but for me I get a good feeling helping an animal in need. I am sorry you feel attack, I feel attacked too sometimes but I know most have good intentions. You picked a lovely name for a lovely pup, but just love her and be grateful she is with you and away from where she was because it may of been clean, and he may of loved his dogs but his breeding is NOT good.

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie (Post 2782035)

see my other post!! yes i did look, and i found what you found, a bunch of older dogs, mostly male, weird colors, health issues, bad habits to retrain, and not close enough to me.

i'm not trying to sound mean or anything, but i really did want my first puppy to be a puppy, and to have been influence by me personally and not some other owner. i didn't want to deal with a history of trauma or health issues and i knew i wanted a female that i could name myself not an adult i'd have to rename.

i got exactly what i wanted and regret nothing about it.

Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2782057)

You contradicted yourself.

This is what you said at first:

if there are so dog gone many pure yorkies in shelters then home come on my search for a shelter yorkie i never ONCE found one of them in my area???? HMMMMMMMM

Then when we called your bluff and showed you all the Yorkies up for adoption in your area, you changed your story.

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie (Post 2782063)

no i didn't contradict my story. i didn't find a pure bred yorkie in my area...not close enough...those are in Cole Camp and Kansas, there were no pure bred yorkies that i could find in good health without huge mental problems and a female in Liberty, MO Kansas City, MO or surrounding areas within 30 minutes... and if there were i DID NOT find them...not finding them before getting Sadie doesn't make my story change one bit...just because you found some around MO and in KS doesn't mean i was lying when i said i never found them in my area...i didn't and by my area i meant within 30 minutes...if they are here I DID NOT FIND THEM

not to mention that like i said i wanted a baby, a famale, and a purebred yorkie, no found here.

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 2782068)

All you need to do is put your ZIP CODE into the search box and they come up in your area! :rolleyes: You live in the PUPPYMILL capital of the U S A. There are yorkies all the time being dumped at the shelters in your state!

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie (Post 2782063)

no i didn't contradict my story. i didn't find a pure bred yorkie in my area...not close enough...those are in Cole Camp and Kansas, there were no pure bred yorkies that i could find in good health without huge mental problems and a female in Liberty, MO Kansas City, MO or surrounding areas within 30 minutes... and if there were i DID NOT find them...not finding them before getting Sadie doesn't make my story change one bit...just because you found some around MO and in KS doesn't mean i was lying when i said i never found them in my area...i didn't and by my area i meant within 30 minutes...if they are here I DID NOT FIND THEM

not to mention that like i said i wanted a baby, a famale, and a purebred yorkie, no found here.

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2782078)

You also live in Liberty, the same town where one of the best breeders around lives; Starbarks Yorkshire Terriers.

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2782078)

You also live in Liberty, the same town where one of the best breeders around lives; Starbarks Yorkshire Terriers.

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 2782101)

Now that is a very interesting piece of information that I have learned today! :) Filing into memory bank for future use :)

*See how that works, information absorbed and taken without argument :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2782098)

Blumoon Yorkies is also very close in Kansas City, Missouri.

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie (Post 2782106)

i wasn't going to post back at all but it's comments like this that get me so fuming mad that i just want to say something really really mean and uncalled for that would get me banned from this site.

how dare you to be so outright rude and horrible.....

(see how that works, information absorbed and taken without argument)

How about next time you learn to take information and absorb it without a making a snide nasty poke at others hmm?

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie (Post 2782035)

see my other post!! yes i did look, and i found what you found, a bunch of older dogs, mostly male, weird colors, health issues, bad habits to retrain, and not close enough to me.

i'm not trying to sound mean or anything, but i really did want my first puppy to be a puppy, and to have been influence by me personally and not some other owner. i didn't want to deal with a history of trauma or health issues and i knew i wanted a female that i could name myself not an adult i'd have to rename.

i got exactly what i wanted and regret nothing about it.

Originally Posted by yorkie_mama22 (Post 2782044)

I'm probably not a favourite on here for some but I don't ever intend to be rude. I feel very strongly about the APRI and the poor dogs who are tortured into breeding just for the heck of it. I hope you don't take this the wrong way but I like to the time to speak about my girl ANY chance I get, not because I want to lecture or be mean, because my heart was broken over and over again about the place my baby came from! Being born in a cage, taken from her mom too soon, being scared all her life :( It breaks my heart to see dogs suffering. I don't support APRI, because they know what kind of places their dogs come from and they DONT CARE as long as they get money. I know you know this and I am not jumping on you personally, I just feel so passionte about these dogs. I saw the video of the puppymill Stormy came from and it hurts so much.

I also volunteered at our shelter and I saw LOTS of purebreds. Lots of old ones that people got rid of just because they felt like it. I would sit and cry each visit because I couldn't save them all. I would play with them, hold them and tell them how special they were because these dogs in these places are SO loving all they want is to be loved and they are SO grateful to get a home. Our boxer we got from a shelter 10+ hours away, which I find out now that province is well known for mills, she was brought to the shelter because she got too big and wasn't a cute puppy. She is the most loving dog ever, she was so grateful to have a home, she is 8 years old now and starting to get the effects of probably being a mill dog. I haven't bought a dog from a reputable breeder yet, I get re homs usually because I have a big heart for the under dogs.

Let me correct myself, my fiancee bought his dog from a good breeder for alot of money. But personally myself I love to give the dogs who need a home a new home. Maybe one day I can buy an expensive puppy but for me I get a good feeling helping an animal in need. I am sorry you feel attack, I feel attacked too sometimes but I know most have good intentions. You picked a lovely name for a lovely pup, but just love her and be grateful she is with you and away from where she was because it may of been clean, and he may of loved his dogs but his breeding is NOT good.

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie (Post 2782106)

i wasn't going to post back at all but it's comments like this that get me so fuming mad that i just want to say something really really mean and uncalled for that would get me banned from this site.

how dare you to be so outright rude and horrible.....

(see how that works, information absorbed and taken without argument)

How about next time you learn to take information and absorb it without a making a snide nasty poke at others hmm?

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 2782186)

I was not trying to be "outright rude and horrible". Let me explain to you a little about me since you only joined YT a little over a month ago. I came to YT looking for knowledge in August 2007 because I wanted to add a puppy to my home. I too had many misconceptions about where, how and who to purchase a puppy but I wanted to learn from knowledgeable people. It was months before I posted for the first time and introduced myself. By that time I had grasped as much knowledge as possible from the many, many post that I had read. I had also taken in a rehome Pebbles who was from my friend. Pebbles has many behavioral issues because she was taken from her mom too soon and under socialized with her siblings. I hired a trainer and read many book on dog behavior as I possibly could to further educate myself. It was during this time that I also became involved in rescue and began volunteering. I then added a little puppy Doodlebug to our little family who is a puppy mill rescue. His mom was purchased from an auction and he was one of her liter. I felt at the time I was making a difference by "help" save a rescue. Since that time I have become further educated and changed my views on this subject as well. I have since learned from YT that this practice enable the millers to continue the suffering within the mills by making a new spot for a younger dog as well as putting money into the millers pockets. :mad: Then I began volunteering with YHR and became even more active within the YT community because I felt KNOWLEDGEABLE enough to make a meaningful contribution. It is my belief that information that I have contributed to this forum is meaningful and informative. I have been both a student and teacher within this community. I have learned and tough while making friends and sharing fun stories. I spend most of my time in the Rescue Forum trying to help and save as many dog as possible. There have been members of YT that have decided to join YHR and other rescues to try and make a small difference in this sometimes cruel world we live in. Other have found wonderful new additions to their homes in the Rescue forum. I added both Truman my foster and also Bogey from the Rescue Forum. You can look at all of my posts and see that I have made a genuine positive contribution to the community with my 2,417 posts. Most :rolleyes: are well thought out and thoughtfully worded to provide information and guidance to whomever I am posting a response. Yes~I have been called rude in the past but sometimes the truth needs to be told and I sometimes it does have a little sting.

Originally Posted by MorkieMomii (Post 2782200)

Sorry I don't get this one part, if Doodlebug was a rescue then how did you do anything wrong? Should the puppy have been put down instead? I am misreading this maybe?

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 2782238)

Let me explain what I meant by this statement. Doodlebug's mom was pregnant when she was brought to the puppymill auction to be sold. The millers will sell dogs regardless if they are pregnant or not. She was ready to give birth to her liter who Dbug was part of. The rescue PAID the Amish miller for the mom and took her back to the rescue where she had her puppies. The problem with purchasing at these auctions is that you are making a free spot for the millers to put another more profitable dog into her slot and at the same time putting money into their pockets for a dog they no longer considered profitable. If they know the can even get $5 for one of their cast off it is still profit to the mills. Now if they gave away the dogs and didn't make a profit they would reconsider having so many dogs within their mills. It is a matter of supply and demand. Whether it is the public making the demand at the petshops or making purchases online or a rescue paying for dogs they will continue to "supply the demand".


Hope that makes sense ;) *BTW Dbug is a Morkie too :)

Originally Posted by MorkieMomii (Post 2782243)

This was from a post on another thread but it really applies here.

I got Sushi, Sake, And KitCat strsaight from their breeders, and it's actually in the contract I signed that if I ever decided to rehome these babies I will have to call the breeder first. They would take them back any day. Two of them actually went as far as making me sign that even if at some point I found a new home for them, I have to get the breeder's approval for the new home. I guess they just wanna make sure that their babies are always looked after and with responsible reliable owners. And I can't blame them!

I know breeders have good intentions but this is exactly why many people are probably pushed away. Most people are going to love and care for their dog and breeders don't really need to do this. I think it is having the opposite effect and people are turning to petstores and less controling breeders.

I have come across many people who just walked away from the "reputable breeder" because they just wanted a girl (and the breeder wouldn't let girls go until you learn how to take care of your yorkie boy first-really just scared you were going to breed her maybe???)or who didn't want to wait so long to get their pup(meaning the breeder wanted to keep the pup until it was old enough for them to see if it would fit the "standard" and then if not they would sell it).

Anyway if good breeders would advertise more or make it a more accessible and enjoyable experience then more people would turn to them. I don't think their attitude is always positive in helping the puppy mill situation.

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 2782238)

Let me explain what I meant by this statement. Doodlebug's mom was pregnant when she was brought to the puppymill auction to be sold. The millers will sell dogs regardless if they are pregnant or not. She was ready to give birth to her liter who Dbug was part of. The rescue PAID the Amish miller for the mom and took her back to the rescue where she had her puppies. The problem with purchasing at these auctions is that you are making a free spot for the millers to put another more profitable dog into her slot and at the same time putting money into their pockets for a dog they no longer considered profitable. If they know the can even get $5 for one of their cast off it is still profit to the mills. Now if they gave away the dogs and didn't make a profit they would reconsider having so many dogs within their mills. It is a matter of supply and demand. Whether it is the public making the demand at the petshops or making purchases online or a rescue paying for dogs they will continue to "supply the demand".

Hope that makes sense ;) *BTW Dbug is a Morkie too :)

Originally Posted by Mardelin (Post 2782268)

May I jump in here and explain (and you probably already know most of this)

Since most reputable exhibitor breeders breed for themselves first, it's very common for them to hold a litter, because the litter looks very promising. So, yes there is a bit of a wait. It's hard for those that are wanting a puppy yesterday, but if one has done their homework and wants a quality dog they are willing to wait.

You're right, most of us don't advertise, although many have websites to showcase their accomplishments. Most of us either have breeder referrals via YTCA, word of mouth and/or repeat buyers. I preferably don't care to have a website....just a bit old fashioned that way, the internet is a wonderful tool, but with it, it has brought some criminal elements.

Originally Posted by megansmomma (Post 2782238)

The rescue PAID the Amish miller for the mom and took her back to the rescue where she had her puppies. The problem with purchasing at these auctions is that you are making a free spot for the millers to put another more profitable dog into her slot and at the same time putting money into their pockets for a dog they no longer considered profitable. If they know the can even get $5 for one of their cast off it is still profit to the mills. Now if they gave away the dogs and didn't make a profit they would reconsider having so many dogs within their mills. It is a matter of supply and demand. Whether it is the public making the demand at the petshops or making purchases online or a rescue paying for dogs they will continue to "supply the demand".

Originally Posted by red98vett (Post 2782275)

You make perfect sense. The same theory applies to pet shops like you said. Once a puppy is bought - another from a mill is brought in to replace that puppy and the cycle continues.

It's very VERY hard not to want to save them but, in reality, people are keeping them in business by buying. It's all about profit.

I'm glad you mentioned auctions. That's another disgusting practice that needs to stop. It's like our country turns a blind eye to the plight of all these poor animals. Even on the news, when they have the tv adoptions, there is hardly any mention about the thousands being abused/neglected LEGALLY in Mills all over the country.

Our laws just SUCK.

Originally Posted by MorkieMomii (Post 2782286)

Ok so with these two statements I just don't get it. If breeders really wanted to put puppy mills out of business then why not breed to sell and advertise to people to ensure they buy from someone who cares. I don't mean this in any mean way at all, but if you are going to tell someone not to go buy something they want from place A because it is bad and to buy from place B, but then you can't find place B and when you do, place B won't let you have the product.

There really is a conflict in that.