Fussy Puppy

[Zanders' mom]

When getting Lexie at 10 weeks, I knew she would be too tiny to hold it all night, when I got her it was cooold outside, I did not want to risk getting either of us sick.. so I set up her sleep area just like the breeder had done at her home, placed a childs gate xpen next to my bed, with her small crate, pee pad, blanky, a stuffed animal, a little bit of food and water, if she was thirsty she got out of her crate, drank, or nibbled and tinkled, she would then go back to her crate and stay quiet. If she made noise, I would say - ssshhh, night, night, and that would do it. Once she was 3 months I could tell she was holding it until at least 7:30 a.m. so I started taking her outside. Now she goes on pad or rings the bell to go outside.

I also remember reading it is a good thing to teach your furbaby quiet time, so if they are running around being crazy it is ok to put them in their crate for 10 minutes or so it could be with a toy or chewy treat. Same thing when she is not behaving, biting.

Just sharing what has worked for me.

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by mnewco

You always try treats. Everytime she wines, say quiet time and give her a treat. When she does it again, give her a treat and say it again. It might take several times but it might work.

Also, when I brought my Samoyed home last year, I paid no attention to her and slept in the quietest bedroom in the house and after a solid week, there was no more whinning or barking and let me tell you, she barked all night long. Drove us crazy too.

Originally Posted by mnewco

Here is another idea that the breeder of my Samoyed advised me on.

Take up her water by 3 pm and then she will have it all out by bedtime. It worked for me. I took up Apple's food and water at 3. ...If it not a bathroom problem, then like I said, leave her whine for a week. She will get over it. Apple did. The sooner you leave her alone for a whole week uninterupted, the better she will be. ...

Originally Posted by mnewco

I don't want to argue about what my breeder advised me because it worked on my Samoyed. ...My breeder shows Samoyeds and is quite knowledgeable. You should see all of the Champions on her pedigree. ...

This is really a dangerous mistake to make -- thinking toy breeds are the same as larger ones. People may have experience with a larger breed dog and then think everything they learned for that dog is exactly the same for a toy dog like a Yorkie. I know you now have a yorkie but it was 2 years old when you got her so you have never dealt with a Yorkie puppy and all that entails. There is a HUGE difference in a Samoyed and a Yorkie! Samoyeds are working dogs that wind up being about 10 times the weight of a yorkie as adults! (35-65 pounds instead of 4-7 pounds average)

The advice you are giving could well be fatal for a yorkie puppy. They cannot be expected to go from 3 pm one day until the next morning without food or drink. They would be very susceptible to dehydration and hypoglycemia with that sort of treatment! Then ignoring them if they did whine, could lead to them dying overnight with no attention to their poor pleas. Even if they do make it through the night, drops in their sugar level and even mild dehydration can do unseen damage that shows up later in life.

No one doubts your Samoyed breeder knows her stuff -- for a Samoyed. But I think you need to step back and reassess before suggesting someone follow the same advice for a tiny, 8 week old Yorkie puppy. In this case Rachel is getting enough advice not to follow what you told her and she is already aware of the dangers of dehydration and hypoglycemia .... but what if another new owner read that before seeing any counterpoints and lost her little one during the night from one of those conditions? Think how awful you would feel.

I know you offered your advice with good intentions, but when giving advice as drastic as that, you really need to be sure the advice is going to apply to a tiny Yorkie puppy. Maybe even check a few references before typing it out. I also had a problem with your "treats for whines" idea and the suggestion to ignore/leave alone/etc. I think Yorkies, even more than most breeds, need a LOT of nurturing attention when they are puppies especially. They are more people-oriented, loving, and require more hands on attention than a lot of breeds. They sure know how to pay it back a thousand-fold though! I have never known a breed more loving, attentive, and so obviously in need of play and cuddling. That's why we love them so much!

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

This is really a dangerous mistake to make -- thinking toy breeds are the same as larger ones. People may have experience with a larger breed dog and then think everything they learned for that dog is exactly the same for a toy dog like a Yorkie. I know you now have a yorkie but it was 2 years old when you got her so you have never dealt with a Yorkie puppy and all that entails. There is a HUGE difference in a Samoyed and a Yorkie! Samoyeds are working dogs that wind up being about 10 times the weight of a yorkie as adults! (35-65 pounds instead of 4-7 pounds average)

The advice you are giving could well be fatal for a yorkie puppy. They cannot be expected to go from 3 pm one day until the next morning without food or drink. They would be very susceptible to dehydration and hypoglycemia with that sort of treatment! Then ignoring them if they did whine, could lead to them dying overnight with no attention to their poor pleas. Even if they do make it through the night, drops in their sugar level and even mild dehydration can do unseen damage that shows up later in life.

No one doubts your Samoyed breeder knows her stuff -- for a Samoyed. But I think you need to step back and reassess before suggesting someone follow the same advice for a tiny, 8 week old Yorkie puppy. In this case Rachel is getting enough advice not to follow what you told her and she is already aware of the dangers of dehydration and hypoglycemia .... but what if another new owner read that before seeing any counterpoints and lost her little one during the night from one of those conditions? Think how awful you would feel.

I know you offered your advice with good intentions, but when giving advice as drastic as that, you really need to be sure the advice is going to apply to a tiny Yorkie puppy. Maybe even check a few references before typing it out. I also had a problem with your "treats for whines" idea and the suggestion to ignore/leave alone/etc. I think Yorkies, even more than most breeds, need a LOT of nurturing attention when they are puppies especially. They are more people-oriented, loving, and require more hands on attention than a lot of breeds. They sure know how to pay it back a thousand-fold though! I have never known a breed more loving, attentive, and so obviously in need of play and cuddling. That's why we love them so much!

I think this post was well put, i hope that it is taken to heart and that it is not taken the wrong way. i'm glad that i did learn about dehydration and hypo before getting Sadie, and i agree with you that yorkie puppies need different things than other dogs, they are little and they need more attention and people time than most dogs do.

i hope that mnewco doesn't take offense to your correction, and i hope no one takes offence to her either, she was trying to help and had good suggestions for a larger breed dog!!

Thanks to you both for being so helpful and willing to teach YT viewers about those two breeds and tricks and tactics that work well with each type.

I will add that all dog breeds are very different, and not only breeds, but all dogs are different. what works for one yorkie doesn't always work on another, for instance, pinning my girl makes her more angry and hyper, it doesn't calm her down and show me as leader. the best trick for her is to end playtime by ignoring her and removing myself, or if on the couch, removing her from the area. it seems that doing this along with NO BITE works best for her. yelping makes her bite more and harder, she doesn't get it, and pinning or holding her up to get her to settle makes her crazy.

thanks again for the advice!!

Update: Sadie and I had a pleasant evening yesterday. I finally got it into my head that she is only a baby, and that i can't honestly expect that much from her yet. i will keep training and working on her biting and nipping, but that takes time, patience, and love. she's a very sweet girl, she cuddled with me a lot and even lay on my chest and snuggled in our fleece tie blanket together. i adore my little girl, i just needed to realize she was just that and not an adult capable of knowing better. my attitude change has improved her moods as well. she's learned to sit almost 80% of the time on command and we're still working on down which takes longer to get. i tried "sit pretty" and showed her how to, in between chewing my hands. she didn't seem to want to try or get it, and then i said it one time without helping her and she tried it and got it. she hasn't done it again since, but knowing she is still there learning through the chewing is impressive. she enjoys treats and training time and i ask her for a sit now before meals and to get a toy. she's really smart!!

she also lays down on command in her crate and that helps put her to sleep at night a lot better. she just likes attention and wants to be near us all the time, she can't stand to be pinned up in the same room as us when she could be playing, i use a blanket over her crate if i absolutely have to pin her up.

anyways, she's getting much better with my patience now!

See you all later for more updates

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by cheryl19

One of the best postings I hope she read it.

i certainly did, every word of it, i needed to hear it!!

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

I will add that all dog breeds are very different, and not only breeds, but all dogs are different. what works for one yorkie doesn't always work on another, for instance, pinning my girl makes her more angry and hyper, it doesn't calm her down and show me as leader.

Oh, gosh, Rachel, I'm so glad you learned that pinning Sadie down is a bad idea. That's called the Alpha Roll and is outdated and even dangerous. It was developed by the Monks of New Skete back in the 1970's. They later apologized for it and said they never intended for it to be used by owners, but only by professional trainers in cases of extreme aggression.

The premise behind it was that wolves turn one another over on their back to get them to submit. In reality, the only time they do this to to kill the other wolf by ripping its entrails out. When you flip your dog on its back, it is terrifying for them and they can go into survival instinct. The Alpha Roll can make your dog more aggressive and is a good way to get bitten.

This is an excellent article on the subject:

ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory

[RachelandSadie]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

Oh, gosh, Rachel, I'm so glad you learned that pinning Sadie down is a bad idea. That's called the Alpha Roll and is outdated and even dangerous. It was developed by the Monks of New Skete back in the 1970's. They later apologized for it and said they never intended for it to be used by owners, but only by professional trainers in cases of extreme aggression.

The premise behind it was that wolves turn one another over on their back to get them to submit. In reality, the only time they do this to to kill the other wolf by ripping its entrails out. When you flip your dog on its back, it is terrifying for them and they can go into survival instinct. The Alpha Roll can make your dog more aggressive and is a good way to get bitten.

This is an excellent article on the subject:

ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory

see i would have never known this wasn't good before, people kept saying to try it, i don't like it, i tried it a couple times and her eyes go wild, i hate that look in her eyes, i don't know if it's fear, but now since you said that i bet that it is fear, she's terrified of it and i stopped doing i awhile ago, i hated her expression and that's just not the right method for a baby, she does much better with me ending playtime or making her settle down by removing myself or her from the play area.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

see i would have never known this wasn't good before, people kept saying to try it, i don't like it, i tried it a couple times and her eyes go wild, i hate that look in her eyes, i don't know if it's fear, but now since you said that i bet that it is fear, she's terrified of it and i stopped doing i awhile ago, i hated her expression and that's just not the right method for a baby, she does much better with me ending playtime or making her settle down by removing myself or her from the play area.

Ending playtime is exactly the right thing to do. That's what her mom and littermates would do if she got too rough. She will learn that the fun stops if she gets too carried away.

It scares me how many people still use the Alpha Roll without realizing that it is outdated and dangerous.

[RachelandSadie]

i loved the article, very very interesting thank you, i'm going to pass it on if that's ok!!

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

i loved the article, very very interesting thank you, i'm going to pass it on if that's ok!!

Absolutely!

Here is another excellent article on the subject:

http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonli...0statement.pdf

[ARCHIE]

Rachael, with all this knowledge your absorbing, Sadie will be one well
trained little girl and you will be one well informed owner
YT is a wonderful learning site. I can't imagine one member not
learning something from it. I know I have learned so much over
the years of being here and am a better owner for it.

[BonBon]

Originally Posted by Ladymom

Oh, gosh, Rachel, I'm so glad you learned that pinning Sadie down is a bad idea. That's called the Alpha Roll and is outdated and even dangerous. It was developed by the Monks of New Skete back in the 1970's. They later apologized for it and said they never intended for it to be used by owners, but only by professional trainers in cases of extreme aggression.

The premise behind it was that wolves turn one another over on their back to get them to submit. In reality, the only time they do this to to kill the other wolf by ripping its entrails out. When you flip your dog on its back, it is terrifying for them and they can go into survival instinct. The Alpha Roll can make your dog more aggressive and is a good way to get bitten.

This is an excellent article on the subject:

ClickerSolutions Training Articles -- The History and Misconceptions of Dominance Theory

I've never liked this method either, but I couldn't explain to others what it was that bothered me about it. Thank you - this is a great explanation!

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by RachelandSadie

I think this post was well put, i hope that it is taken to heart and that it is not taken the wrong way. i'm glad that i did learn about dehydration and hypo before getting Sadie, and i agree with you that yorkie puppies need different things than other dogs, they are little and they need more attention and people time than most dogs do.

i hope that mnewco doesn't take offense to your correction, and i hope no one takes offence to her either, she was trying to help and had good suggestions for a larger breed dog!!

Thanks to you both for being so helpful and willing to teach YT viewers about those two breeds and tricks and tactics that work well with each type.

I will add that all dog breeds are very different, and not only breeds, but all dogs are different. what works for one yorkie doesn't always work on another, for instance, pinning my girl makes her more angry and hyper, it doesn't calm her down and show me as leader. the best trick for her is to end playtime by ignoring her and removing myself, or if on the couch, removing her from the area. it seems that doing this along with NO BITE works best for her. yelping makes her bite more and harder, she doesn't get it, and pinning or holding her up to get her to settle makes her crazy.

thanks again for the advice!!

Update: Sadie and I had a pleasant evening yesterday. I finally got it into my head that she is only a baby, and that i can't honestly expect that much from her yet. i will keep training and working on her biting and nipping, but that takes time, patience, and love. she's a very sweet girl, she cuddled with me a lot and even lay on my chest and snuggled in our fleece tie blanket together. i adore my little girl, i just needed to realize she was just that and not an adult capable of knowing better. my attitude change has improved her moods as well. she's learned to sit almost 80% of the time on command and we're still working on down which takes longer to get. i tried "sit pretty" and showed her how to, in between chewing my hands. she didn't seem to want to try or get it, and then i said it one time without helping her and she tried it and got it. she hasn't done it again since, but knowing she is still there learning through the chewing is impressive. she enjoys treats and training time and i ask her for a sit now before meals and to get a toy. she's really smart!!

she also lays down on command in her crate and that helps put her to sleep at night a lot better. she just likes attention and wants to be near us all the time, she can't stand to be pinned up in the same room as us when she could be playing, i use a blanket over her crate if i absolutely have to pin her up.

anyways, she's getting much better with my patience now!

See you all later for more updates

Thanks Rachel -- I appreciate the comments and the turn your posts are taking. You seem to have a fast learning curve. Sometimes I think it is most frustrating for a confident, intelligent person to admit that this little 2 pound package of energy has them baffled. Believe me, it is compounded several times over with children. Books are a great starting point, but as you are already finding out with your puppy, they are all so individual it just takes time, patience and consistency. And just when you think you have it right, they throw you a curve and you have to regroup and start over again. But it is all so worth it! Enjoy the adventure!

[Zanders' mom]

Not only can lack of water cause dehydration it can cause crystals in the urine/bladder when feeding dry dog food. Something I experienced with Jazzie, on her own she did not drink enough water. She is ok now, but when she was younger lets just say we had a few more visits to the vet than I would have wanted.