Debarking Hooks
 

I have been "sneaking" my pups on campus and it has been a pretty big success. I moved off of campus for the summer into a house with a few other people and for some reason Hooks has developed a joy for barking. It has reached sheltie level barking where it is like he can't believe this sound comes from his mouth and everyone needs to hear it:eek:

I think he does it so that I will pick him up because once I do he stops, but even if he is just laying around he will just get into a barking fit for no reason. I don't know what has brought it on because we lived her for a the last few weeks in May and he was normal, but all of June he has been barking his little butt off.

I took them with me to the NOW convention and I was asked to leave 2 hotels. I really don't mind it during the summer. My roommates haven't said anything to me about it since they are gone during the day for classes and at night for work and my pups sleep when I sleep. I am just worried about August because I have to move back onto campus and I am not getting rid of my dogs for anything in the world and I have been researching debarking and it doesn't seem that bad. It is less invasive than his neuter. I am trying to work out living off campus, but I don't even think it is financially possible.

Has anyone had the procedure for their dog?
Besides aesthetics then it doesn't do any harm right?

I know there is a chance that it won't work and it can only soften the bark, but I would take soften too. I have found a vet who has an amazing record for this procedure, so I am not trying to be as responsible as possible.

I haven't done the research into debarking myself so I won't comment. There are many other additional methods you could try first.

Pennies in a can worked wonders for me, but needs to be used consistantly.

A couple friends of mine have used spray collars with good success - they spray some kind of citrus when the dog barks - eventually the little guys got the idea and no longer need to wear it.

How old is Hooks? Have you tried ignoring him when he barks? You have a couple months to work on the barking issue, there is ways to train it out of them. Personally I would leave debarking as a last resort.

I don't think this is a good idea--debarking. It seems cruel to me.

I am going to say this in the nicest possible way: maybe now is not the time for you to have a little dog in your life. Students move constantly and they have schedules that can be varied and unpredictable. I know when I was a student, having a dog (of any kind) just would not have worked for me. You said already that you have been "sneaking" your dog into campus. While we have all done this occasionally, I don't think it is a good practice on a regular basis.

I don't doubt that you love your dog. But think about his needs. Dogs, like children, thrive on routine and stability.

I agree! You picking him up when he barks is rewarding his behavior and he will do it more. Try ignoring him when he does it....turn your body from him, wrap your arms around your chest, and make no eye contact (when he barks). Wait a few seconds of quiet and then reward him. Dogs are great at reading the slightest body language.

My father adopted a puppy mill female pom years ago that was debarked and when she tried to bark a squeak came out of her mouth. It was soooo heartbreaking, because it was used to silence her in the miller's house. I know your situation is very different from that, but I strongly urge you to reconsider. Image if some one took away your ability to communicate. Please, try the training or hiring a personal trainer for the money you'd spend on the procedure.

I would exhaust every training method available and if none worked (which I can't imagine some method wouldn't work) I would choose not to move onto campus.

I've known of only one case where I thought debarking was acceptable. This was an elderly woman with an older dog that was moving into a nursing home. The only way she could take the dog with her was to have her dog debarked. They had been life long companions and both would have been heartbroken with out the other.

All I can say is this post makes me want to cry.:cry: I am speechless.

The only person I know who had their dog debarked is my grandmother. She lives in a neighborhood for the elderly and it was a similiar situation to the one above. My grandmother isn't that pleased with the result. The noise that her dog makes now is pitiful. Also, she was told that the procedure can "wear off." I had not heard that before, but that is something else to take into consideration.

I think it's kind of cruel to get a dog de-barked, whether you do it in a humane way or
not! Dogs bark... it's what they do. You have to know that going in to getting a dog.
There is many ways to prevent it as well. I'd want to cry if I saw a dog trying to bark
and they couldn't! It's natural for them, it's instinct, and while dogs who bark annoyingly
are not fun... you can train them to not bark as much. Picking him up while he's barking
is only adding to it, just so you know. You've been given great tips above ^^ I love
using pennies in a can to shake when he barks, or squirting him with a water bottle.
Works like a charm.

I agree...please dont have your pup debarked.

"I have found a vet who has an amazing record for this procedure, so I am not trying to be as responsible as possible."

Freudian slip? I am not trying to be mean, but I think what you are thinking of doing is cruel. You chose to break the rules by acquiring, not one, but two pets that aren't allowed on campus. And for these actions there are now consequences that you are all to willing to let your dog pay the price for.

Is there any possibility that they can remain with your parents? Sometimes living off campus can be cheaper since what you would pay for student housing and meals could just be applied to an apartment. You owe it your pup to exhaust every possibility.

I think this is cruel for many reasons. We have bred these dogs to be watch dogs, to warn us of intruders, and this is wired into their being. To try to eliminate something that is so much a part of them seems cruel. You can modify barking, and have the stop on your command. You won't eliminate it, but you can greatly reduce the behavior. I love penny's in a can for this, and if done correctly, can greatly reduce barking, even if you are not present to reinforce. Like anything, the training method has to be fairly precise to work correctly. So if you tried it, and it doesn't work, you are not doing something right. It is not one trial training and success doesn't come overnight.

:eek::eek: I'm sorry but that is just plain sick! HOW CAN YOU CONSIDER THAT? I don't mean to sound rude or offend you but that is just totally wrong, a dog is a dog, they bark. It's their nature to bark. If you don't like barking you should of thought of a cat instead or a pet that makes no noise! I'd say get rid of your dog before you would do something cruel like that to him(them). :(:(:( :mad::mad: :thumbdown:thumbdown

I have to admit I was pretty horrified when I opened this thread, but then I got to thinking: we breed our dogs artificially, we take away their sex organs, we cut off their tails, we choose when they die... I know this is a very bald way of putting it, but a surgical de-bark doesn't seem out of the question to me.

HOWEVER, like others have said, I would consider it an absolute last resort. Your dog may need his bark someday to let you know he's in trouble, or to tell others that YOU are in trouble. He needs his bark to communicate with other dogs. And from what I have heard, the resulting sounds are really pitiful.

Thor barked inside a lot until I tried pennies in a can. I literally shook it maybe a dozen times, and that was the end of that. Much cheaper, much faster, and much less invasive.

I was thinking about that too when I first read the thread, but didn't say
anything! lol. However, I don't agree with docking tails either. So, I feel
the same way about both things, lol.

I think the same argument can be made for children. We make critical choices about their care and that can be anything from circumcision to deciding to end life support. I know a lot of people on here consider their pets their children and that is why I make the argument.

My dogs are neutered because it is healthier for them. Their tails came docked or else I would have left them intact. I just got my gallbladder out because it was healthier for me, I didn't want to do it but it NEEDED to be done.

Debarking doesn't need to be done. It is being done solely to prevent undesirable behavior that is at the crux of what a dog is.

Sorry for the rambling thoughts still on Vicodin:D

I have never had a dog debarked but if I had to choose between losing my dog or having it debarked then I would chose the debarking. Why is debarking anymore cruel than spay and neutering, is that 'natural'? I have a friend that bought a 8 month old puppy from a top show breeder and he was debarked. He could still bark but it was a quiet bark. He is a champion now. I agree that other methods should be tried first but the OP should make the decision based on what is best for her dog and her situation. Whatever she decides she has my support and I wish her the best.

Ahem. A dog is a dog. A dog barks. If a may be so blunt, if you didnt want a dog that barks, may i suggest a stuffed one?

Ive been around debarked shelties. IT IS TERRIBLE. The dog can still make little barking sounds. It is so strained because he WANTS to bark, but he cant. Its like a person that has lost there voice. They bcome frustrated. You are taking away a big way of how your dog communicates when you debark a dog.

Its like declawing a cat. Which i am 100 % against. You get a cat, a cat has claws. Cats scratch, its a well known fact. If you didnt want a cat with claws, that will scratch things, get a stuffed one. (FYI, declawing a cat is a MAJOR amputation, taking part of the cats toes, and the human equivilant would be chopping your fingers off at the knuckle, many cats will not use a litter box after wards. Or jump. Or get on any high surfaces, it effects balance. Which i know is off topic, but declawing a cat is animal cruelty, and so is de barking, an animal.)
how would you like to have your voice box removed?:confused::eek:

I think one of my biggest concerns and why I am so passionate about the issue is because I've lived on campus, from dorms to on campus apartments and a lot, a LOT of people try to have pets and I would say most of them get busted. I would hate to have this pup lose his bark possibly permanently for something that is a temporary situation that is not even guaranteed.

Your right. S/N is just a cruel. S/N helps control pet population, and many people who dont s/n will not taht the initiative to stop a pregnancy from happening. S/N helps get dogs/cats off the streets and ends alot of needless suffering. S/N also reduces the number of unwanted animals in shelters,making less animals having to experience life in a cage. Not to mention how much alot of shelters save money when an animal is not allowed to reproduce because of S/N.. And lets not forget how many animals would have to be needlessly uthanized daily because of pet over population... Its just a joy to see a 1 year old black mixed breed dog be put to sleep because nobody wanted him. Even though he was never anything but kind, loyal and loving.

but debarking is only to accomedate the owner. And the owners "happiness" whilst not taking the dogs hapiness into consideration at all.

Yep, exactly the same thing:rolleyes:

You make a neat little list, but if you consider each of these individually, they don't necessary have to be cruel. We breed dogs, yes, but good breeders understand how to do this successfully and not produce a genetically crippled offspring. Taking away a dogs sex organs is also not a cruel behavior, what I believe to be cruel, is having a male dog who has this incredible urge, and yet no way to satisfy it. Cutting off their tails, if done early, and with the correct procedure, I also consider not to be cruel. Your last reason of choosing when they die, is perhaps the kindest thing we do for animals that we don't do for humans. However, there are some breeders who recommend hitting the dog with a hammer to induce death.

Any of these things can be done cruelly, we all know breeders who breed 3 pounders who are at risk for cesareans, later joint problems, and worst. We all know breeders who breed a young dog before they even know if he has genetic ailments. I've read of breeders who perform neutering and spaying with no anesthesia, and of course all the byb's who don't know how to properly cut tails, and are too cheap to see a vet. These are the same people who often use debarking methods, and it usually involves a medal tube crammed down a dog's throat, very cost effective.

Even though the surgery she's choosing is a humane alternative, the result is the same, and the dog will know it can no longer bark, this is the part, I believe is inhumane. Neutered dogs, don't know what they're missing.

I would rehome a dog before I would consider debarking.

I agree I would rehome before I debarked also.

:thumbup: I would also rehome before even CONSIDERING debarking...I think it would be selfish not to.

Here is an interesting article that talks a little about debarking and some of the myths that go along with it.
NAIA: Debarking* (Bark Softening) - Myths and Facts

In my opinion, neutering male dogs is not in their best interest, the cons outweigh the pros. People do it because they don't want to be responsible for accidents. Spaying females at a very young age is cruel and not in their best interest. If a dog is barking to the point that it is disturbing the neighbors and everyone in the house then as a last resort it is better to debark than to send them to a animal shelter or to rehome the problem.

I have some very vocal outspoken babies and thank goodness I live way out in the country so me and my husband are the only ones that have to listen to them.:)

I agree -- rehome before debarking! What happens if you put your dogs through this debarking and then you get caught with them on campus and are told they must leave? What would you do then? Whatever it is, do that now instead. Think of your dogs instead of yourself. If dogs are against campus rules, then don't bring them on campus. I don't think anyone should think they are above the rules especially to the point that they would mutilate their dog just to keep them hidden. What happens if after debarking, they keep running out in the open where they could be seen? Will you find someone to hobble them?

It would be a simple procedure to make a person mute also. Hardly any harm done, except the loss of your voice. Would you want that? I don't think your dogs do either.

I have never heard of anyone but puppymillers debarking dogs! I did not realize a reputable vet would even do that!

Humans talk & YELL, cats meow, cows moo, and dogs bark enough said!!

I think that is horribly cruel, barking and growling is a defense mechanisim , god gave them that tool , to alert and defend themselves, who are we to take it away.. Please rehome , do not debark....

The thought of someone removing my voice box because they didnt want to hear me talk makes me shrill... :eek::eek::thumbup::thumbup:

Just a thought....
 

I did read some on this and there are just as many sites against debarking as the one posted promoting it. It is illegal to debark dogs in Ohio! -- Yea Ohio! Other states have been trying to pass anti-debarking laws. Many vets refuse to perform the surgery! Yea vets! The Association of Pet Dog Trainers is against the surgery! Yea APDT! I guess if it was absolutely the last resort, meaning professional training had been tried and failed, and all other methods of behavior modification had been REALLY tried and failed, the penny can had tried and failed, the spray collar had tried and failed, and the dogs were living in an area where dogs were allowed, then, maybe .......... no then, I would still just move somewhere that would not annoy others and let them bark as God intended!

After seeing a dog that was debarked I can't begin to tell you how heartbreaking it is...I was always, always against debarking (Matty Lu LOVES to bark, so I know what you are going through; believe me!!) but actually witnessing a dog after the procedure I am even more adamently against it.

I'm not really sure how to respond to this, but I find the comment about my neat little list a little snide. Not sure if it was intended that way. I was merely trying to point out that we control almost every aspect of dogs' lives, and some we take for granted, while others seem horrifying. I disagree with some of your points, but I am not in favor of de-barking, so I don't really want to get into a point by point debate.

For the record, I don't believe in tail docking, declawing cats, or debarking. As I said before, there are many training alternatives, so no, it's not something I would do, particularly since it appears to be a permanent solution to a temporary problem.