Yorkie-poo's... Yay or Nay

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Imagine if instead of coat color, the primary characteristic of a yorkie was long life. I wonder if these little guys would have such marked problems with LP, liver shunt, hypoglycemia, etc.

I have to agree with you on that point. The overall health of dogs being bred should be the primary concern regardless! However, the issues you have mentioned...LP, shunt are issues that responsible breeders make every effort to eliminate from being passed on to future generations. Those problems can be dealt with....unfortunately, many could care less as long as they produce marketable dogs. (Hypoglycemia on the other hand is not a genetic issue. It's related more to environmental conditions and not so much a result of the breeding.)

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

You can do anything you want with your dogs, but when you ask people's opinion -- be ready to get it.

LOL...welcome to the world of a public internet forum.

There has been a lot brought to the surface on this thread that really speaks volumes. A lesson learned that sometimes your own words come back to bite you in the end. No sense in getting upset and lashing out at others because of something YOU shared.

[roxies_mom]

I have a question and it's not disputing anyone here because on the breeding subject I know nill. I only have Roxie for a pet and never intend on ever getting into breeding of any kind. My question is this, lets say you have a litter of pups and it's a well known breeder and the parents have been checked and are of superior quality...is it possible that at least one of the pups could come out with some kind of health problem such as liver shunt or lp etc? I'm just curious if all the precautions have been taken to breed with the highest of quality in mind that something could still go wrong? Like I said I have no idea and just wondering if it's possible.

[cj125]

Originally Posted by roxies_mom

I have a question and it's not disputing anyone here because on the breeding subject I know nill. I only have Roxie for a pet and never intend on ever getting into breeding of any kind. My question is this, lets say you have a litter of pups and it's a well known breeder and the parents have been checked and are of superior quality...is it possible that at least one of the pups could come out with some kind of health problem such as liver shunt or lp etc? I'm just curious if all the precautions have been taken to breed with the highest of quality in mind that something could still go wrong? Like I said I have no idea and just wondering if it's possible.

I guess I'll try to answer this even though "I am no expert".

I think with LP - any toy breed can get it due to jumping etc. I think there's several things to consider when questioning how the dog got it. I think a couple things that come into play are: how early you see signs, grade level, any known accidents, repeated activity where they jump or jar their joints.

Liver shunt - from what I understand in congenital.

Anything is possible and there are no absolute guarantees but a good breeder will stand by their pups - infact, they'd WANT to know if any pups have either of these.

So, yes, it's possble.

[cj125]

Originally Posted by FlDebra

Jexxie -- Yes, For $1000 that person CAN get full registration. But it is NOT a given. Lots and lots of questions and references, as stated. I have not advertised them that way to just anyone. I am not perpetuating unregistered dogs either. They are quality AKC, in breed standard. I had the mother and father checked out ahead of time and got experienced breeder input about my two. I am honest about just starting out -- how is that a negative? A negative would be to do like you did and say that I am experienced when I am just starting. A negative would be to alternately claim puppies are CKC registered, then that the parents did not have papers because they cost more, then that one was a rescue. That gets confusing to type!

How did you get the "practice what you preach" out of my post? I have AKC registered, pedigrees available, pictures of parents and grandparents, puppies to sell. You are talking about having dogs without papers just long enough to put out a litter, selling them for $175 to someone who immediately had another mixed breed, and now talking about breeding one of those puppies with another breed when you don't know the background or health history of the dogs. That is a LOT different. I don't get why you do not see that. I don't think there is anyone against all breeding of quality in standard AKC yorkies, is there?

You keep being so nasty and when I say cussing people, it is the name calling and the hostile words you use that I am talking about. I asked you several questions in that post but you sure did not answer any of them. Instead you want to sling insults. Stick to facts. That is why I tried to quote you several times, so you would realize I was only talking about exactly what you had posted. You have made conflicting statements. Do you want to clear them up?

See you casually ask people's opinion if you should breed these dogs. Do you really think people should just off the cuff say, yes, breed them? Instead, shouldn't a person do a little background work before they say that? I think so, and that is why I made one click of a button where it says "List other posts from this member" and they all come up. It takes about 2 seconds. Not difficult, not time consuming, and an easy way to see what else a person is posting about. Did it all with a puppy in my lap.

You can do anything you want with your dogs, but when you ask people's opinion -- be ready to get it. And don't bite their heads off if they don't all think you are doing it all right. I am just starting, but there is no way that you can say I don't know what I am talking about. I spent 2 years studying what I was going to do before I did it. I asked a million questions BEFORE I let dogs breed. I would never just arbitrarily get rid of my adult dogs because the breeding did not work out either. They are mine to love and be cared for. You can say you really care about your dogs and that they are a member of your family, but when you have a male and female and get rid of both of them in about 6 months time (just long enough to give you a litter) and then on to another dog, well....actions speak much louder than typed words.

[roxies_mom]

Thank you for the reply. That answers it pretty well!

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by cj125

I guess I'll try to answer this even though "I am no expert".

I think with LP - any toy breed can get it due to jumping etc. I think there's several things to consider when questioning how the dog got it. I think a couple things that come into play are: how early you see signs, grade level, any known accidents, repeated activity where they jump or jar their joints.

Liver shunt - from what I understand in congenital.

Anything is possible and there are no absolute guarantees but a good breeder will stand by their pups - infact, they'd WANT to know if any pups have either of these.

So, yes, it's possble.

LP is a congential defect the same as Liver Shunt, Leg Perthes, AAI, or any hereditary trait. The reason that you do not allow a Yorkie to jump that has LP is that it could cause the LP to worsen. Not only that but many times it will get worse with time~kind of like how people who have issues with their knees worsen with time. It is the wear and tear that can cause it to get worse over time.

Here is a pretty good resource that explains exactly what it is and how it can be treated.
Yorkie Medical Information

Here is Liver Shunt:
Yorkie Medical Information

Collapsed Trachea:
Yorkie Medical Information

Legg Perthese:
Yorkie Medical Information

(AAI) Atlantoaxial Instability

Atlantoaxial instability (AAI) is characterized by excessive movement at the junction between the atlas (C1) and axis (C2) due to either a bony or ligamentous abnormality. Neurologic symptoms occur when the spinal cord is involved. A life threatening neck defect.

MVD
MVD

I hope this will answer some of your questions about the different conditions that can be seen in the Yorkie breed.

[roxies_mom]

I didn't realize that LP was hereditary. I always worry about Roxie jumping off of things and that might cause it. She's 2 and never shown any signs of any of these problems as of yet so should I still worry about it showing up and not letting her jump off of things? Should probaby post this elsewhere, it just kind of came up with reading all of this.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by roxies_mom

I didn't realize that LP was hereditary. I always worry about Roxie jumping off of things and that might cause it. She's 2 and never shown any signs of any of these problems as of yet so should I still worry about it showing up and not letting her jump off of things? Should probaby post this elsewhere, it just kind of came up with reading all of this.

When it's hereditary, it's often noticeable the first year, even as young as 12 weeks, and surgery will eventually be needed. It can be caused through trauma, but you are not as likely to see a severe case so young. If there are no signs by the age of 2 Roxie parents didn't pass the fault to her, but she can still be injured so keep up the good work, and don't let her jump off things! Not every case is completely clear what caused it, but many are.

[roxies_mom]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

When it's hereditary, it's often noticeable the first year, even as young as 12 weeks, and surgery will eventually be needed. It can be caused through trauma, but you are not as likely to see a severe case so young. If there are no signs by the age of 2 Roxie parents didn't pass the fault to her, but she can still be injured so keep up the good work, and don't let her jump off things! Not every case is completely clear what caused it, but many are.

Thank you for the info on this. It's not an easy task keeping her from jumping off of things since she's like lightening when she's on a mission to check something out! I cringe and freak out and run to make sure she didn't hurt herself. I even pushed the couch back up against the wall to keep her from jumping that high since she will (silly girl)!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by roxies_mom

Thank you for the info on this. It's not an easy task keeping her from jumping off of things since she's like lightening when she's on a mission to check something out! I cringe and freak out and run to make sure she didn't hurt herself. I even pushed the couch back up against the wall to keep her from jumping that high since she will (silly girl)!

Joey's the same way, Yorkies are fearless when it comes to jumping.

[phfgkl]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

LP is a congential defect the same as Liver Shunt, Leg Perthes, AAI, or any hereditary trait. The reason that you do not allow a Yorkie to jump that has LP is that it could cause the LP to worsen. Not only that but many times it will get worse with time~kind of like how people who have issues with their knees worsen with time. It is the wear and tear that can cause it to get worse over time.

Here is a pretty good resource that explains exactly what it is and how it can be treated.
Yorkie Medical Information

Here is Liver Shunt:
Yorkie Medical Information

Collapsed Trachea:
Yorkie Medical Information

Legg Perthese:
Yorkie Medical Information

(AAI) Atlantoaxial Instability

Atlantoaxial instability (AAI) is characterized by excessive movement at the junction between the atlas (C1) and axis (C2) due to either a bony or ligamentous abnormality. Neurologic symptoms occur when the spinal cord is involved. A life threatening neck defect.

MVD
MVD

I hope this will answer some of your questions about the different conditions that can be seen in the Yorkie breed.

LP Is NOT always congenital

It can be caused by some form of blunt trauma, or may be a congenital defect. In congenital cases, it is usually bilateral.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by roxies_mom

I didn't realize that LP was hereditary. I always worry about Roxie jumping off of things and that might cause it. She's 2 and never shown any signs of any of these problems as of yet so should I still worry about it showing up and not letting her jump off of things? Should probaby post this elsewhere, it just kind of came up with reading all of this.

Originally Posted by phfgkl

LP Is NOT always congenital

It can be caused by some form of blunt trauma, or may be a congenital defect. In congenital cases, it is usually bilateral.

I was replying based on the idea that the question was about passing on a defect.

[phfgkl]

This is def. one of the best things about a tiny, Tootsie is too big to jump up on the couch, and when we put her up on there with us, she's too afraid to jump down.

[Jemma]

YES, you can have both parents cleared of genetic defects in that breed and still have pups with those same defects that the parents cleared. Why? Proven fact that the gene pool is made of millions and there is no guarantee, I don't care what anyone say's on this, that neither parent isn't carrying a recessive gene. Impossible to know. As far as breeding to the standard, how far does a breeder go to do that? To be considered a good breeder?
When breeding my Goldens, I researched many, many dogs pedigrees before I ever bred. I live on the East Coast. However I found one male who looked like his pedigree blended with my bitch's so well, I wanted him. I felt that the blending of the two could really produce to a extremely well standard,according to the AKC standards. But the dog was on the West Coast, CA. But because you are suppose to breed closest to the standard, we had frozen semen shipped into my vets office. Thawing frozen semen, yuck, such joy, lol. Then doing three AI's, every other day. Pricey? OMG yes.
So when we talk about what is a good breeder, how do we judge that? I consider myself a good breeder because of all I do/did to better the breed. But do all breeders do what I did? No. Does it make me better than them? No.
So how do we judge who is a good breeder and who is a backyard breeder. Do we judge according to how far they go to better the breed? How many litters a year one produces? How long of a guarantee they give? etc etc.
So I guess everyone has a opinion of what is a good breeder, by their own standards and not by any set standards that were ever developed.
This thread sure has opened opinions, lol