Article about BYB! Must read!

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by Karrie

It is silly and way off base because this thread is about the original article as posted by the OP. You want to take this thread in a different direction and use extreme and inapplicable examples to make your point.

Regarding another post of yours, I am not making a half-ass attempt to defend irresponsible breeders - I am simply stating that the author made broad and harmful statements against breeders in general that she labled as back yard breeders.

i still don't see it as off base or taking the thread in a different direction. i don't understand how i am taking this thread a different direction. i thought i was pretty focused on the main topic of the original post.

i did mention earlier that i think everyone is focusing on different parts of the article and that may be why you think i am taking it a different direction. no one else has informed me or bring to my attention that i was going the wrong direction? (or have i not been listening?)

i guess i just really don't see things the way you do. i don't see how the article is making harmful statements against breeders in general.

i just don't see it.

[megansmomma]

[quote=yorkiekist;2497781]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

I didnt say ALL BLAME, I said MORE BLAME. Big difference.

Please clarify what responsibility that a breeder should hold for the life of that pet they have breed and sold? You picked two words and never address any of my other very valid points that I rose. What responsibility should a breeder have after selling a puppy? If all breeders were held responsible for the production of their puppies wouldn't that cut way down on the number of puppies there are born each year? It is so easy to just pass the buck and shun responsibility for your actions.

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

I asked before....what is harmful in that post? I don't see it, but could be missing something.

LOL!!!!! check out the time on our posts, we posted at the exact same time and we asked the same question! LOL!

[yorkiekist]

[quote=megansmomma;2497803]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Please clarify what responsibility that a breeder should hold for the life of that pet they have breed and sold? You picked two words and never address any of my other very valid points that I rose. What responsibility should a breeder have after selling a puppy? If all breeders were held responsible for the production of their puppies wouldn't that cut way down on the number of puppies there are born each year? It is so easy to just pass the buck and shun responsibility for your actions.

I am not going to speak for other breeders. But more and more breeders ARE spaying/neutering puppies before they are placed just because of the over-pupulation problem and they dont want great quality puppies to fall into the hands of mills, bybers, other registries, etc. Most reputable breeders interview and check potential buyers homes before placing a puppy. Most reputable breeders have a lengthy contract and guarantee. Alot are now having mandatory return to breeder clause. But with everything, some buyers dont want to be "micro-managed", some dont tell the breeder that they haved moved, married, changed there name, or taken the puppy to the pound or have given it away or sold it. Cant blame that on the breeder!!
So if you want the big government to micro-manage breeders, you must also have big government micro-manage buyers.

[crystalsmom]

[quote=megansmomma;2497803]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Please clarify what responsibility that a breeder should hold for the life of that pet they have breed and sold? You picked two words and never address any of my other very valid points that I rose. What responsibility should a breeder have after selling a puppy? If all breeders were held responsible for the production of their puppies wouldn't that cut way down on the number of puppies there are born each year? It is so easy to just pass the buck and shun responsibility for your actions.

There are 'Lemon Laws' and I know Florida has one that covers pets and I'm sure there are other states also.

[ladyjane]

[quote=yorkiekist;2497833]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

I am not going to speak for other breeders. But more and more breeders ARE spaying/neutering puppies before they are placed just because of the over-pupulation problem and they dont want great quality puppies to fall into the hands of mills, bybers, other registries, etc. Most reputable breeders interview and check potential buyers homes before placing a puppy. Most reputable breeders have a lengthy contract and guarantee. Alot are now having mandatory return to breeder clause. But with everything, some buyers dont want to be "micro-managed", some dont tell the breeder that they haved moved, married, changed there name, or taken the puppy to the pound or have given it away or sold it. Cant blame that on the breeder!!
So if you want the big government to micro-manage breeders, you must also have big government micro-manage buyers.

In rescue we have a clause like that. I have yet to have an adopter NOT respond to my requests to follow up on a pup. Maybe I am just fortunate...or maybe, just maybe it is because I am a total bug about screening? I think the latter! Yes.....I am lucky...but, I don't chalk it all up to luck. I take my time.

[crystalsmom]

Here are the states that have lemon laws.

Puppy Lemon Law States

[yorkiekist]

[quote=ladyjane;2497845]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

In rescue we have a clause like that. I have yet to have an adopter NOT respond to my requests to follow up on a pup. Maybe I am just fortunate...or maybe, just maybe it is because I am a total bug about screening? I think the latter! Yes.....I am lucky...but, I don't chalk it all up to luck. I take my time.

Do you "follow up" ten years after you placed the dog? Thats what you are implying that breeders should do. I keep in contact with most of the buyers for my puppies over the years. Some of them have moved, changed their number, etc. Life happens! I suppose that is MY FAULT also in your perfect eyes. Reputable breeders do the absolute best they can. And lets face it, 25% of the shelter dogs are not from reputable breeders are they?

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Do you "follow up" ten years after you placed the dog? Thats what you are implying that breeders should do. I keep in contact with most of the buyers for my puppies over the years. Some of them have moved, changed their number, etc. Life happens! I suppose that is MY FAULT also in your perfect eyes. Reputable breeders do the absolute best they can. And lets face it, 25% of the shelter dogs are not from reputable breeders are they?

I really am confused by why you're upset, the article seems to be saying to me,:

1. We have an abundance of pets, so many in fact that we can't find homes for all of them all, and millions of healthy pets need to be euthanized.
2. The major contributor to the over population is NOT puppy mills but backyard breeders.
3. There is no reason to be breeding if you are not breeding to standard.
4. Spay and neuter your dogs, if you don't want to be a proper breeder, and take the time to do it right.

I would think you would agree with all of these things from your previous posts. I don't believe the article is talking about legislation, but more about why the average pet owner shouldn't become a breeder.

[megansmomma]

[quote=yorkiekist;2497833]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

I am not going to speak for other breeders. But more and more breeders ARE spaying/neutering puppies before they are placed just because of the over-pupulation problem and they dont want great quality puppies to fall into the hands of mills, bybers, other registries, etc. Most reputable breeders interview and check potential buyers homes before placing a puppy. Most reputable breeders have a lengthy contract and guarantee. Alot are now having mandatory return to breeder clause. But with everything, some buyers dont want to be "micro-managed", some dont tell the breeder that they haved moved, married, changed there name, or taken the puppy to the pound or have given it away or sold it. Cant blame that on the breeder!!
So if you want the big government to micro-manage breeders, you must also have big government micro-manage buyers.

You have missed by point as we are talking about BYB and overpopulation of pets. Some is a very small portion of what we are talking about in the original topic. If you at what point should a breeder be no longer responsible OVER ALL for the puppies that they have breed? If breeders were held to be responsible for the puppies that they produce then wouldn't it put a stop to all of the dogs that are overpopulating the shelters of the US?

I understand that some breeders are very responsible with the dogs they breed and sell. They have contracts that cover many aspects that they feel sound be done as responsible breeders which is exactly what I am trying to point out. But what about all of the people that are not responsible for what they breed. If a pet owner that did not spay or neuter their pet by choice were to then have puppies because of irresponsible behavior what is the consequence of their actions? NOTHING! To live in a civilized society there be consequences for our actions and it should be a 2 way street when it comes to caring for the animals that are allowed to reproduce and purchase pets. Breeding a dog should be a privilege not a right. Maybe what needs to be done is that breeders and pet owners alike need to earn that privilege through their responsible actions and reasonable management of their pets health and well being. I understand that there are legitimate breeders but they are not the ones causing the problems. Someone needs to address all of the others that breed recklessly and without regard for anything except the $$$ in their pocket. Maybe people would think twice about letting Fluffy have a litter to hand out like Christmas cookies, if there was a chance Fluffy Jr might some day show back up on their door step or they would be required to foot the bill for that dogs care. If there was a consequence to being a BYB and selling dogs in a Walmart parking lot or on the side of the rode maybe these same people would give a second thought before allowing it to happen in the first place.

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

the article seems to be saying to me,:

1. We have an abundance of pets, so many in fact that we can't find homes for all of them all, and millions of healthy pets need to be euthanized.
2. The major contributor to the over population is NOT puppy mills but backyard breeders.
3. There is no reason to be breeding if you are not breeding to standard.
4. Spay and neuter your dogs, if you don't want to be a proper breeder, and take the time to do it right.

thank you nancy! i was hoping someone would do a little summary/bullet points of what they believe the article was addressing. really makes discussions here and focusing the discussion a lot easier. lol.

i didn't do a summary because i am very lazy, but i agree with your points. and think those are the things i got out of the article as well.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

If breeders were held to be responsible for the puppies that they produce then wouldn't it put a stop to all of the dogs that are overpopulating the shelters of the US?

Possibly in an ideal world, but that would only work if owners were equally as responsible for the dogs they have as well.

I think we all know that there are breeders who do everything within their power to breed ethically and place their pups accordingly, and then there are those who don't give a hoot what happens to their dog as long as someone hands them money for it. Is that really a debate? I thought it was common knowledge.

Bottom line IMO, there are too many dogs being bred by too many people who don't take it seriously. People who mass produce puppies just to make money, with no regard for the overall health of the animals or the standards of the breed they work with. Also, I think there are too many people who are irresponsible owners. Too many people who get a dog without being willing to actually commit to them--people who pass them off the moment they are "inconvenient" for their lifestyle or because they just didn't get that dogs are living creatures, not just pieces of property or accessories.

[yorkiekist]

[quote=megansmomma;2497803]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

Please clarify what responsibility that a breeder should hold for the life of that pet they have breed and sold? You picked two words and never address any of my other very valid points that I rose. What responsibility should a breeder have after selling a puppy? If all breeders were held responsible for the production of their puppies wouldn't that cut way down on the number of puppies there are born each year? It is so easy to just pass the buck and shun responsibility for your actions.

You all wanted me to "clarify" so I did. Just seems like there are alot of bullets flying towards the responsible breeder as much as the byber. But NOT the buyer. What about the responsibility if the actions of the buyer?

[yorkiekist]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Possibly in an ideal world, but that would only work if owners were equally as responsible for the dogs they have as well.

Bottom line IMO, there are too many dogs being bred by too many people who don't take it seriously. People who mass produce puppies just to make money, with no regard for the overall health of the animals or the standards of the breed they work with. Also, I think there are too many people who are irresponsible owners. Too many people who get a dog without being willing to actually commit to them--people who pass them off the moment they are "inconvenient" for their lifestyle or because they just didn't get that dogs are living creatures, not just pieces of property or accessories.

[yorkiepuppie]

[quote=yorkiekist;2497945]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

You all wanted me to "clarify" so I did. Just seems like there are alot of bullets flying towards the responsible breeder as much as the byber. But NOT the buyer. What about the responsibility if the actions of the buyer?

i personally see the irresponsible breeders as irresponsible pet owners. i think you agreed with me on this earlier? (was it you?)

i think that the BYB are not 'breeders' at all...they are just irresponsible pet owners that bought pets and decided that it was a good idea to breed them for a few bucks.

just because someone choose to breed their pets doesn't really make them breeders does it? they are just irresponsible pet owners that continually making bad judgement/decisions over and over again.

pet owners definitely need to take responsibilties. sure thing. we all have a responsibility. i don't know, am i misreading something and completely missing the point? (let me know if i am!)