Article about BYB! Must read!

[yorkiekist]

[quote=yorkiepuppie;2497984]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

i personally see the irresponsible breeders as irresponsible pet owners. i think you agreed with me on this earlier? (was it you?)

i think that the BYB are not 'breeders' at all...they are just irresponsible pet owners that bought pets and decided that it was a good idea to breed them for a few bucks.

just because someone choose to breed their pets doesn't really make them breeders does it? they are just irresponsible pet owners that continually making bad judgement/decisions over and over again.

pet owners definitely need to take responsibilties. sure thing. we all have a responsibility. i don't know, am i misreading something and completely missing the point? (let me know if i am!)

Nicely stated!

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie

i personally see the irresponsible breeders as irresponsible pet owners. i think you agreed with me on this earlier? (was it you?)

i think that the BYB are not 'breeders' at all...they are just irresponsible pet owners that bought pets and decided that it was a good idea to breed them for a few bucks.

just because someone choose to breed their pets doesn't really make them breeders does it? they are just irresponsible pet owners that continually making bad judgement/decisions over and over again.

pet owners definitely need to take responsibilties. sure thing. we all have a responsibility. i don't know, am i misreading something and completely missing the point? (let me know if i am!)

That's the way I saw the article too, addressing pet owners who thought that just because they have a "purebred" they could become breeders.

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Possibly in an ideal world, but that would only work if owners were equally as responsible for the dogs they have as well.

I think we all know that there are breeders who do everything within their power to breed ethically and place their pups accordingly, and then there are those who don't give a hoot what happens to their dog as long as someone hands them money for it. Is that really a debate? I thought it was common knowledge.

Bottom line IMO, there are too many dogs being bred by too many people who don't take it seriously. People who mass produce puppies just to make money, with no regard for the overall health of the animals or the standards of the breed they work with. Also, I think there are too many people who are irresponsible owners. Too many people who get a dog without being willing to actually commit to them--people who pass them off the moment they are "inconvenient" for their lifestyle or because they just didn't get that dogs are living creatures, not just pieces of property or accessories.

Bamafan121s was one of the people who helped me when i thought about breeding milu. she gently pointed out to me that it was not the best idea, and that i should enjoy my baby and be proud of her. if family members wanted a dog too, i can help them find a dog instead of trying to give them one of milu's babies. i recieved a lot of educatioin/information from there breeders on this site, and i also recieved a lot of information from breeders that i contacted and emailed.

but on the other hand, way too often, we see in the breeder section, people who post there pleading for help because they have not done ANY research before getting involved in 'breeding' ... and that is a problem!

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by yorkiepuppie

Bamafan121s was one of the people who helped me when i thought about breeding milu. she gently pointed out to me that it was not the best idea, and that i should enjoy my baby and be proud of her. if family members wanted a dog too, i can help them find a dog instead of trying to give them one of milu's babies. i recieved a lot of educatioin/information from there breeders on this site, and i also recieved a lot of information from breeders that i contacted and emailed.

but on the other hand, way too often, we see in the breeder section, people who post there pleading for help because they have not done ANY research before getting involved in 'breeding' ... and that is a problem!

I remember that! Now that you have read and learned more about breeding and read stories shared here, I hope you have a better understanding of why I suggested what I did? I am glad that regardless to what you decided, you were open to the advice you were given by all and took the time to research and seriously consider all options first. When you first came on stating your reasons for breeding her, it didn't seemed like you were putting pleasing others first, which would never make you happy in the end. (Which is NOT a bad thing at all!) Milu is very lucky to have such a great owner!

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

Possibly in an ideal world, but that would only work if owners were equally as responsible for the dogs they have as well.

I think we all know that there are breeders who do everything within their power to breed ethically and place their pups accordingly, and then there are those who don't give a hoot what happens to their dog as long as someone hands them money for it. Is that really a debate? I thought it was common knowledge.

Bottom line IMO, there are too many dogs being bred by too many people who don't take it seriously. People who mass produce puppies just to make money, with no regard for the overall health of the animals or the standards of the breed they work with. Also, I think there are too many people who are irresponsible owners. Too many people who get a dog without being willing to actually commit to them--people who pass them off the moment they are "inconvenient" for their lifestyle or because they just didn't get that dogs are living creatures, not just pieces of property or accessories.

I think we agree that both breeders and owners need to share in the responsibility of the pet. There is currently no accountability for producing or purchasing pets. That is exactly my point. There needs to be accountability on all ends of this picture. If the owner of the pet that has puppies has no responsibility after they get that money in their hand what stops them from producing another litter and then another and then another It you are a pet owner and do not spay/neuter you should be held accountable. No matter what category you fall into. A breeder is still an owner is he not? It should not be so easy to pass them off when they become "inconvenient". It should be made clear that it's a lifetime commitment to breed AND purchase that way there is no finger points and trying to place the blame of responsibility. If you want to your dog to have a litters of puppies and stand on a corner and hand anyone who had money in their pocket a puppy were is your accountability. Shouldn't that irresponsible pet owner be held accountable for not spaying the dog in the first place? I understand that people cast off their unwanted animals all the time and they should be held accountable as well. Pet ownership should be a lifelong decision but it is evident by the millions of dogs in shelters put to death every year.

[yorkiepuppie]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I remember that! Now that you have read and learned more about breeding and read stories shared here, I hope you have a better understanding of why I suggested what I did? I am glad that regardless to what you decided, you were open to the advice you were given by all and took the time to research and seriously consider all options first. When you first came on stating your reasons for breeding her, it didn't seemed like you were putting pleasing others first, which would never make you happy in the end. (Which is NOT a bad thing at all!) Milu is very lucky to have such a great owner!

milu is spayed when i made a post in the breeder section about possibly breeding her, i already knew i shouldn't, i just wanted to MAKE SURE because my vet told me it was ok and that she was a good looking dog with good temperment (and also had breeders say that milu was a very good looking dog)

but once i asked the breeders here and emailed some breeders that are not on this site. they all said "NO! she's too small!" lol. so i listened.

but most people that do not do research do not know, and always think that i am crazy for spaying milu. they think it's fine and that i shouldn't have spayed milu so i could breed her. and i try to convince them that THEY shouldn't breed dogs. but of course, who wants to listen to me!

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by megansmomma

If you want to your dog to have a litters of puppies and stand on a corner and hand anyone who had money in their pocket a puppy were is your accountability. Shouldn't that irresponsible pet owner be held accountable for not spaying the dog in the first place?

That's the problem, those who hand them out for anyone with money. In regards to the pet owner (breeder?) having the dog s/n in the first place....hmmm, that gets tricky as it would involve altering them at a very young age.

I personally consider anyone who has dogs that reproduce as a "breeder." Their motivations, goals and ethics or lack thereof they display regarding the situation determines what kind of "breeder" they are.

[Mitzis Mom]

I see it that way: if one breeds without the proper education and purpose one is not even a back yard BREEDER just a pet multiplicator...

Why don't go people ahead and build their cars themselfs? B/c they don't know how... why do people don't build their own homes? B/c they don't know how... why don't build people their own furniture? B/c it would not turn out as nicely as from the store... Also, that all makes a lot of work and so does breeding if you do it right... right?

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

That's the problem, those who hand them out for anyone with money. In regards to the pet owner (breeder?) having the dog s/n in the first place....hmmm, that gets tricky as it would involve altering them at a very young age.

That is why I was saying they should be held responsible and then it would trickle down. It needs to start at the top and work its way down. If the BYBer and millers were not allowed to hand off dogs unaltered like they do wouldn't that address the problem? It would stop all of this craziness at the root of the problem. There are plenty of RESPONSIBLE breeders that alter pets prior to their sale. If you want an unaltered pet then it should be at a very high price. It is all made too easy and there are too many irresponsible people being given the opportunity to reproduce their pets. If a pet needed to stay a little longer and be altered prior to going to its new home or a higher price needed to be paid to own a pet that is not altered that would alleviate much of this debate. It should not be so easy to hand over a dog to be bred. People should not be in the Walmart parking lot selling dogs. There should be laws to prevent this type of behavior. Millers should not be allowed to have hundreds of dogs, shipping tiny puppies to pet shops, to be sold at auctions or worse yet abandon or kill when their usefulness comes to an end. There needs to be some type of regulations to stop all of the over breeding and killing of animals. If it means that good decent breeders are put under the microscope too then I guess that is what needs to be done. They might not be happy but in the long run it will drive the irresponsible BYB, millers and pet owners out of the market. The responsible ones will be the ones left standing and the pet overpopulation will drop.

Or we can do nothing and close our eyes and stick our heads in the sand.

[ladyjane]

[quote=yorkiekist;2497872]

Originally Posted by ladyjane

Do you "follow up" ten years after you placed the dog? Thats what you are implying that breeders should do. I keep in contact with most of the buyers for my puppies over the years. Some of them have moved, changed their number, etc. Life happens! I suppose that is MY FAULT also in your perfect eyes. Reputable breeders do the absolute best they can. And lets face it, 25% of the shelter dogs are not from reputable breeders are they?

And what do *you* have to do with it? I did not say *you*! Why are you taking things so personal?
I am not perfect, but when it comes to the life of a pup, I strive to be as close to perfect as I can be.
Not sure whose fault it is that so many yorkies are dumped, but it is my job as I see it to make sure they (the ones that end up in my care) never end up back in the system again. I personally have some absolutely beautiful yorkies and every one was a rescue. I have also fostered many beautiful yorkies. Do I know what breeder they came from? No!
That does not matter...what matters is that they were homeless for some reason...for someone's failure, whether the breeder or owner. All I am saying is that there should be standards...and people should do their level best to make sure that the welfare of the pup comes before money!

[ladyjane]

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

It really is incredible how many people make their living or $$$ off of animals. I wonder how many pay taxes?

That is a great question. Heck, it might be a way to stop some of the irresponsible breeding. The IRS has a form you can complete to report tax evasion.
That might be more effective than anything!

[ladyjane]

[quote=yorkiepuppie;2497984]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

i personally see the irresponsible breeders as irresponsible pet owners. i think you agreed with me on this earlier? (was it you?)

i think that the BYB are not 'breeders' at all...they are just irresponsible pet owners that bought pets and decided that it was a good idea to breed them for a few bucks.

just because someone choose to breed their pets doesn't really make them breeders does it? they are just irresponsible pet owners that continually making bad judgement/decisions over and over again.

pet owners definitely need to take responsibilties. sure thing. we all have a responsibility. i don't know, am i misreading something and completely missing the point? (let me know if i am!)

[BamaFan121s]

I understand what you are getting at megansmomma...I think we are on the same page for the most part.

[megansmomma]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I understand what you are getting at megansmomma...I think we are on the same page for the most part.

See not so crazy after all

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by BamaFan121s

I understand what you are getting at megansmomma...I think we are on the same page for the most part.

This has been one of the strangest threads I've ever read, I think most of us are on the same page; I'm confused about what all the fuss was about. One thing, Megansmomma was disappointed in post 7 that so few people responded, and at least we got lots of responses.