Questions About Golden & Parti Yorkies

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

That was very interesting. Mosting interesting is the use of the word RARE.

The use of the word "rare" is frowned upon and seen as a red flag when breeders are using it. Since Wikipedia isn't selling any dogs, I see no harm in using this word, and I imagine in the dog world, a Biewer is still rare.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

The use of the word "rare" is frowned upon and seen as a red flag when breeders are using it. Since Wikipedia isn't selling any dogs, I see no harm in using this word, and I imagine in the dog world, a Biewer is still rare.

Oh I definitely agree, they would be considered rare when compairng the number of them to the traditional colored yorkies, as would the partis and the goldens.

Of course you realize that anyone can contribute an article to Wikipedia. the information is suippose to be documented as to where it came from, but not all articles are.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

Oh I definitely agree, they would be considered rare when compairng the number of them to the traditional colored yorkies, as would the partis and the goldens.

Of course you realize that anyone can contribute an article to Wikipedia. the information is suippose to be documented as to where it came from, but not all articles are.

Yes, it's a good source for basic information, and they have an area where you can dispute any information that you deem incorrect. A disputed article will have the warning at the top of the page. Wikipedia:NPOV dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Have you considered a Biewer? While they can't be registered with the AKC yet, they probably will be allowed to someday, and they actually have a standard. They look similar to a Parti, but have specific markings. The Parti can be registered, but it's just under the Yorkshire terrier name, and this is considered a fault, like a bad bite. Biewers are registered with a European registry, but others can tell you more about this. They are a beautiful dog; and many owners say that their personality is a little more laid back then the Yorkie. Unfortunately, because of the popularity of "off colored dogs", it has attracted many poor breeders who are only breeding for the off trait, and are not taking into consideration other genetic flaws the dam or sire could have. So while there may be no real diseases linked to the Parti as yet, so many "greeders" are indiscriminately breeding them for this one trait only. A good breeder looks at many different traits, not just one, and when puppies are born with genetic problems they would stop breeding the dam and sire, but this doesn't happen with some Parti breeders or golden breeders because money is their only motivation. So while the puppies can be cute, finding a good breeder would be extreemly difficult.

Unlike a bad bite, which can have negative health consequences, off colors like Parti, golden, chocolate and black coats, doesn't cause any harm to the dog, except in the show ring. All off colors, including black coated adults, are disqualified in the ring (as are blues that are too dark or too light).

Many of the different parti lines are tracing back to CH Wildweir Pomp N Circumstance who was born 50 years ago. I think most would be surprised, that these off colors are not new to our breed - they've been showing up in different lines since the beginning of the breed, including the Wildweir line (according to the information discovered in the late 1990's when AKC had their investigation over the Nikkos parti dogs). Prior to AKC's investigation which ended in allowing parti coloring to be registered, off colors were culled, given away or destroyed. At the time, recessive genes were not understood and it was thought that the wrong stud bred the bitch or that the off colored pup was genetically defective, we now know that's not the case.

Parti standards are the same as Yorkshire terrier standards with the exception of their coloring. Unlike the Biewer who have color "placement"
standards, AKC parti's cannot control the amount of spotting or it's placement due to the genes responsible for their tri coloring being a different
spotting gene than what the biewer's have. Biewers appear to carry the Irish spotting gene while most the AKC partis carry the pie bald and extreme white spotting genes.

There are good breeders and bad breeders in every breed not just the yorkshire terriers. And yes, some breed indiscriminately but others will look beyond the color to breed the best dog they can breed; to improve the type and quality of their colorful yorkshire terrier; to try to educate people about recessive genes and to promote these colors that have been in our breed for years.

Just as a YTCA member who breeds and shows Yorkies, breed for that desired steel blue coloring that is necessary in the show ring, parti breeders are also breeding to perfect the tri coloring in our AKC registered yorkies.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

Unlike a bad bite, which can have negative health consequences, off colors like Parti, golden, chocolate and black coats, doesn't cause any harm to the dog, except in the show ring. All off colors, including black coated adults, are disqualified in the ring (as are blues that are too dark or too light).

Many of the different parti lines are tracing back to CH Wildweir Pomp N Circumstance who was born 50 years ago. I think most would be surprised, that these off colors are not new to our breed - they've been showing up in different lines since the beginning of the breed, including the Wildweir line (according to the information discovered in the late 1990's when AKC had their investigation over the Nikkos parti dogs). Prior to AKC's investigation which ended in allowing parti coloring to be registered, off colors were culled, given away or destroyed. At the time, recessive genes were not understood and it was thought that the wrong stud bred the bitch or that the off colored pup was genetically defective, we now know that's not the case.

Parti standards are the same as Yorkshire terrier standards with the exception of their coloring. Unlike the Biewer who have color "placement"
standards, AKC parti's cannot control the amount of spotting or it's placement due to the genes responsible for their tri coloring being a different
spotting gene than what the biewer's have. Biewers appear to carry the Irish spotting gene while most the AKC partis carry the pie bald and extreme white spotting genes.

There are good breeders and bad breeders in every breed not just the yorkshire terriers. And yes, some breed indiscriminately but others will look beyond the color to breed the best dog they can breed; to improve the type and quality of their colorful yorkshire terrier; to try to educate people about recessive genes and to promote these colors that have been in our breed for years.

Just as a YTCA member who breeds and shows Yorkies, breed for that desired steel blue coloring that is necessary in the show ring, parti breeders are also breeding to perfect the tri coloring in our AKC registered yorkies.

But the YTCA member will not breed just any Yorkie because he has the desired steel blue coloring; they are looking at the whole package. However, due to its popularity, many Parti breeders will do this. Popularity and rareness are never a good mix for the future health of any breed. Like relatives, when you win the lottery, bad breeders come out of the woodwork when there is money to be made.

[JeanieK]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

But the YTCA member will not breed just any Yorkie because he has the desired steel blue coloring; they are looking at the whole package. However, due to its popularity, many Parti breeders will do this. Popularity and rareness are never a good mix for the future health of any breed. Like relatives, when you win the lottery, bad breeders come out of the woodwork when there is money to be made.

There are more "bad" traditional colored yorkie breeders than there are "bad" parti colored breeders. When looking to buy any puppy, one needs to research the breeder as much as the breed. Find the 'right" breeder and then look for the "right" dog.

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

There are more "bad" traditional colored yorkie breeders than there are "bad" parti colored breeders. When looking to buy any puppy, one needs to research the breeder as much as the breed. Find the 'right" breeder and then look for the "right" dog.

Yes, and the reverse is true too, there are more "good" traditional colored yorkie breeders than there are "good" parti colored breeders also because there are just more traditional colored yorkie breeders. However, those breeders that actually breed to standard are few and hard to find. I think we should always ask ourselves "why" a particular breeder is breeding, and really listen to the answer and read between the lines.

[yorkiekist]

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...age0088888.gif

Going round in circles!!!LOL
What happened to the OP? Hopefully she is still here.
Personally, I would go for a Biewer and not a parti yorkie. The Biewer is trying very hard to become AkC registered and they do have a written standard. They are different from the parti yorkie, a separate breed. These Biewer breeders, the reputable one that is, are doing all of the health testing and are breeding to their written standard.

On the other hand, the parti yorkie, is not being bred to the YTCA or any other Yorkie standard. This color annomoly is a fault and just like an underbite, should not be purposely bred for. The parti color, amoung others, will never be recognized by the YTCA and there-fore they will never be shown in conformation. The parti breeders claim that there have been many DNa tests done, especially on one kennel, to prove that they are purebred. The only thing that these DNA tests did was to say that the parents of the puppies were in fact the parents of the puppies. This test cant tell you if these puppies are purebred yorkies and cant tell you if there was another breed introduced in an earlier generation. Like the Biewer, the parti yorkie is most likely the result of a yorkie being crossed with another breed to bring in the parti gene. In the past, it was VERY easy to falsify AKC papers, so it would be easy to add another breed and claim that they were purebred yorkies. This is the only reason that AKC has to register these color faults.

But with any breed of dog, you must do your research and look at several breeders and pick one you are comfortable with. There are alot of bad breeders(greeders) out there in every breed. Reputable breeders will only breed to the written standard of that breed.

Best of luck finding your puppy!

[yorkiekist]

To the OP: I just saw a thread by kpstoybox. They have a cute Biewer for sale!!! He is very beautiful!! You might check it out!!

[xxmxaxrxyxx]

tammy your parti is beautiful!

Kioko is my parti gene carrer...and i hope to find me a female parti some day...hehe

[Pinehaven]

Originally Posted by yorkiekist

The parti breeders claim that there have been many DNa tests done, especially on one kennel, to prove that they are purebred. The only thing that these DNA tests did was to say that the parents of the puppies were in fact the parents of the puppies. This test cant tell you if these puppies are purebred yorkies and cant tell you if there was another breed introduced in an earlier generation.

It is a fact, not a claim, that the Nikkos parti line was extensively DNA tested; not just the parents of the puppies and the puppies themselves but as far back with the living relatives as possible.

Now, in pedigrees 4 generations prior to CH Nikkos Rolls Royce Ashley (who is where the parti gene was show to be coming from) there was CH Wildweir Pomp N Circumstance.

Is it a coincidence that the new parti lines that are cropping up in litters and surprising their traditional yorkshire terrier breeders, are tracing back to CH Wildweir Pomp N Circumstance who was born 50 years earlier?

Is it a coincidence that during the AKC investigation, where respected, Old time breeders were interviewed about off colors popping up over the years in their breeding programs, that AKC determined these off colors do show up in standard litters.

Is it a coincidence that Wildweir kennel was one of the old time breeders interviewed and that they told AKC they had parti pups born in some of their litters?

If this recessive gene is still being passed down through some bloodlines 50 years later, why is it so hard to believe that these genes could not have come from the non purebred, heritage unknown, dogs that began this breed 80+/- years earlier?

Every dog that carries a recessive gene passes that gene onto half of it's offspring, so if the dog has a lot of progeny, there could be many carriers who when bred to another carrier will produce 25% colorful offspring. That's how recessive genes work, they hide until two dogs with the same recessive genes are bred together and then "surprise!"

[TammyJM]

Originally Posted by xxmxaxrxyxx

tammy your parti is beautiful!

Kioko is my parti gene carrer...and i hope to find me a female parti some day...hehe

Thanks Mary! Our Livi sure is spoiled....such the princess around here!

Tammy

[scrapindee]

The major difference between Parti-yorkies and the Biewers (besides no tail, tail) is that a parti-yorkie follows no standards for color. The Biewers have very specific color placement.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by JeanieK

There are more "bad" traditional colored yorkie breeders than there are "bad" parti colored breeders.

That's because there are more breeders of standard colored yorkies to begin with.

Good points yorkiekist. Those are similar to what my thoughts on the issue have been all along.

[BamaFan121s]

Originally Posted by Pinehaven

Parti standards are the same as Yorkshire terrier standards with the exception of their coloring.

And this is the standard for a Parti according to...who exactly? Where is the "official" standard for the parti yorkie published...I didn't think there was one. Or is this just the requirement in order for them to be registered with AKC?