HELP!!! Mocha attacked my shihtzu - YorkieTalk.com Forums

Babz · 12-22-2008, 08:32 AM

I have noticed that mocha has become more aggressive in the past month or so, if only slightly. And then in the past few days she has gotten more aggressive towards Lulu. It ONLY happens when Lulu is "excited" such as when there are people at the gate and she barks to inform me. Then Mocha will go bark at her, and then she starts to hump her??

I thought it was just hormones, but then just now she bit Lulu's ears!! No blood but the ear is tender and there's a mark. I separated them but Mocha just kept going. Now she is fenced and I am near tears what do I do? A friend of mine says it is "leadership" problems but I'm so scared now. How would I ever leave them alone again, just the two of them? Will I have to separate them for the rest of my life? How am I going to trust the Mocha again??

Please please please help.

Keely_momma · 12-22-2008, 08:36 AM

Awww. Im sorry your goign through this. The humping is mochas way of showing dominance towards lulu. Keely does this to my neighbors german shepherd to show dominance.

Ellie May · 12-22-2008, 08:38 AM

Yes, they will have to be separated when nobody is there and if you were there when this happened, they may need to be all the time. Could you hire a trainer?

Babz · 12-23-2008, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Yes, they will have to be separated when nobody is there and if you were there when this happened, they may need to be all the time. Could you hire a trainer?

Money is really tight, hiring a trainer is kinda out of the way now.

I think the problem is not only with Mocha. Lulu should be able to show Mocha that she is not going to be dominated but she isn't doing that. Someone said that if I let them sort it out by themselves, maybe Lulu is going to stand up to her in the end. But Lulu was wailing because Mocha had such a strong (and painful, imo) or bite on Lulu's ear. I was so terrified. I mean, Mocha is a terrier after all. Size does not matter to them.

Does anyone please have an advice on what to do right now? Aside from separating them, how can I train Mocha not to do that again?

Bhikku · 12-23-2008, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babz

Money is really tight, hiring a trainer is kinda out of the way now.

I think the problem is not only with Mocha. Lulu should be able to show Mocha that she is not going to be dominated but she isn't doing that. Someone said that if I let them sort it out by themselves, maybe Lulu is going to stand up to her in the end. But Lulu was wailing because Mocha had such a strong (and painful, imo) or bite on Lulu's ear. I was so terrified. I mean, Mocha is a terrier after all. Size does not matter to them.

Does anyone please have an advice on what to do right now? Aside from separating them, how can I train Mocha not to do that again?

Showing Mocha that you have dominance over her during a period when she's showing aggression might make her think twice about climbing the pack hierarchy. Think Cesar Milan.

Ellie May · 12-23-2008, 05:10 AM

Let them sort it out?
There was a thread started on YT not long ago about two Yorkies fighting.
One of them had to have their eye removed because of it.
Anytime you let dogs fight, you are taking a risk.

Even if you are alpha over both of them, Mocha is obviously taking second place. You could start between them and face Mocha when this happens and give some kind of verbal discipline (but the people who only use positive reinforcement will disagree with this).

When big dogs get in Ellie's face and she growls and snaps to get them away, I sometimes allow it because she is telling them to stop but I always hesitate because then she may carry that behavior over to other situations with dogs where she has no right to do that. I also think it is possible for Ellie and big dog to get hurt. So, I start between them as much as possible and keep them separated for the most part.

Babz · 12-23-2008, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhikku

Showing Mocha that you have dominance over her during a period when she's showing aggression might make her think twice about climbing the pack hierarchy. Think Cesar Milan.

The problem is, HOW do I show dominance? I keep them separated yes but well sometimes she does not listen. I know it is my fault to not reinforce training much sooner, but I need to know what to do NOW, you see.

I am reading his book right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Let them sort it out?
There was a thread started on YT not long ago about two Yorkies fighting.
One of them had to have their eye removed because of it.
Anytime you let dogs fight, you are taking a risk.

Even if you are alpha over both of them, Mocha is obviously taking second place. You could start between them and face Mocha when this happens and give some kind of verbal discipline (but the people who only use positive reinforcement will disagree with this).

When big dogs get in Ellie's face and she growls and snaps to get them away, I sometimes allow it because she is telling them to stop but I always hesitate because then she may carry that behavior over to other situations with dogs where she has no right to do that. I also think it is possible for Ellie and big dog to get hurt. So, I start between them as much as possible and keep them separated for the most part.

I do give a very firm NO when she goes after the ear again. So far she hasn't gotten dominant much, but all throughout today I kept my eyes on them. But Lulu is also not helping me, by keeping submissive. I would not even know how to start with positive reinforcement. I have been looking at all kinds of training method all this day, trying to find which ones will suit my dogs.

I am keeping them together right now, but only when I am in the house. I leave them on short bouts like toilet and stuff. I am just trying to do what seems logical to me. They will need to learn how to behave again when it's just the 2 of them. If I am at home I can hear if something is happening. When I have to leave the house I will definitely keep them separated at least for a while.

Eye removed? Poor baby

That is what I am afraid of. If I let them "sort it out", one of them will get hurt. As submissive as Lulu is, I am sure if it really comes down to it she will strike back, as every living thing do. Mocha is athletic but Lulu is bigger.. ONE of them is sure to get hurt. Those little teeth are no less sharper than the ones on, say, Rotties.

I am trying my best right now, while looking (frantically) for ways to assert leadership for both of them.

It ONLY happens when Lulu got excited.

Ellie May · 12-23-2008, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Let them sort it out?
There was a thread started on YT not long ago about two Yorkies fighting.
One of them had to have their eye removed because of it.
Anytime you let dogs fight, you are taking a risk.

Even if you are alpha over both of them, Mocha is obviously taking second place. You could start between them and face Mocha when this happens and give some kind of verbal discipline (but the people who only use positive reinforcement will disagree with this).

When big dogs get in Ellie's face and she growls and snaps to get them away, I sometimes allow it because she is telling them to stop but I always hesitate because then she may carry that behavior over to other situations with dogs where she has no right to do that. I also think it is possible for Ellie and big dog to get hurt. So, I start between them as much as possible and keep them separated for the most part.

Okay, I typed that too fast.
In two places I put "start" and not "stand".

JoeyP · 12-23-2008, 06:12 AM

You're definitely dealing with a dominance issue
but dominance doesn't always mean Aggression
Your Yorkie is showing dominance ... but she's also showing aggression as well
and that's what needs to be stopped
the growling and biting need to be corrected immediately
if your Yorkie growls and bites when people leave set that condition up
have someone go to leave the room
The minute your Yorkie goes to growl or bite
You need to be there to correct
EH! and a nudge
Make sure she listens to you
watch their eating ... are they growing at each other during mealtimes?
over toys?
use these instances to get a handle on your Yorkie
one always has to be dominant
but that never means fighting and biting

Woogie Man · 12-23-2008, 06:38 AM

I didn't see you post whether or not your girls are intact or not. If they aren't spayed you will have more of a problem. It may be a dominance issue but if they aren't spayed, it could be more intense than if they were.

Ashley V · 12-23-2008, 06:42 AM

When she does this, pick her up and put her on her back and tell her no. Force her to submit to YOU. She will fight you at first but DO NOT let her up until she submits. We used this method on Chip (who is aggressive on many random occasions) and he knows now that when we say no, it means no. And we used it on Smokey and now when he knows he's in big trouble, he automatically rolls over and submits.

Cha Cha · 12-23-2008, 08:45 AM

My little Yorkie has been exhibiting the same type of behavior, only my other dog is an aged special needs min pin. What I have noticed is that the aggression ONLY happens when mostly me, or any other family member is present, so I don't have anything to worry about leaving the two of them alone together. Heck, they will curl up next to eachother. What works for me and what I have instructed the others in my house to do is this..... My Yorkie clearly shows aggression before the fight is actually on. She has a glare and a stance about her that tells us she is showing aggression. When she does this, whoever is present is to immediately turn their back on the Yorkie, turn away from her, and if possible leave the room. For some reason, this has been helping and the incidences of aggression has begun to stop. It's kind of like if no one is going to watch why do it. Now, we are able to just tell her no! before we turn our backs and she will stop. The min pin, even though old and handicapped will fight back. Both my dogs show submission to me as "top dog" so I believe our problems are over who is going to be second in command, LOL.

Xaleia · 12-23-2008, 01:58 PM

I also was told by an experienced trainer........

That one will be dominant..and one will be submissive. Your original dog may never show domiance and Mocha may take over the lead ..of those two. There is nothing wrong with that. Submission is good and it's OK for Mocha to be dominant. And you are Domiant over the both of them...this is the pecking order. I had these same problems with Lei and Corkie all of their lives. I was able to leave them alone..because this issue always arrived when I was in the picture.
Also, I was told...WHOMEVER of your two dogs shows the most domiance..then you need to acknowledge that.
For instance...when you come home you acknowledge the Alpha dog first. Give treats to the Alpha first..etc...Everything... it's the Alpha first...then the other animal. I was told I could of avoided a lot of the fights between my two gals if I would of done that. Lei is now gone..but Marley has entered the picture. So far he is the most Alpha so I'm trying hard to pet, treat, love, kiss..etc..him first. It's hard because Corkie is my oldest and my little love...and she's elderly. But.. I do want these two to bond....and I want harmony in the home.....so..gonna try had to follow this advice.
I'd kennel or keep them separate until you are comfortable there will not be problems when you are gone to work or whatever.

There is my two kibbles on the subject

Good luck girl

brittahnee · 12-23-2008, 02:43 PM

let me give you a warning, immediately.

This same situation has happened to my Sophie, but she was the victim.
However, she would sometimes be the instigator and start the fights.
It's always with my other female, and it didn't start until after Sophie went into heat.
They always would get into random fights, a lot of times drawing blood.
My mother and I bought muzzles, because apart from spaying the two (which we are currently in the process of doing.) it was all we could do to fix the problem. And it worked, but only a temporary solution as the muzzles seemed so mean for the dogs. There was a long time when they stopped, which I though they had just "outgrown" it, but then the jealousy issues. I couldn't pick one u, pet one, or lay next to one without the other getting obviously jealous and attacking. Instead of getting better, it was just getting worse. Luckily, there had been no serious injuries. It was scary more than anything. I knew my other female (she is a sheltie, and really - the sweetest dog ever) wasn't trying to kill her, just protect herself.

Well one day when i got home (and i still continue to blame myself for this) i picked up sophie immediately. it had been over a day since I saw her, and i missed her terribly. When I put her down, the fight started again. We got very good at pulling the two apart in time, but we weren't so lucky this time. In the process (to make a long story short.) Sophie's eye was bulging, and unable to be pushed back into the socket, which only left one option -- remove the eye. We went from having no injuries from fights, to this very serious one. We are trying to get the females spayed, and pray it works, because i love both of my dogs. (although i still hold a grudge to my sheltie for doing it to my baby..) and i would hate to see the sheltie get rehomed.

and just in case anyone was curious, Sophie is 10 pounds and my sheltie is about 20. So there wasn't that much difference between the two.

12-22-2008, 08:32 AM	#1
Babz YT Addict Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Jakarta, Indonesia Posts: 448	HELP!!! Mocha attacked my shihtzu I have noticed that mocha has become more aggressive in the past month or so, if only slightly. And then in the past few days she has gotten more aggressive towards Lulu. It ONLY happens when Lulu is "excited" such as when there are people at the gate and she barks to inform me. Then Mocha will go bark at her, and then she starts to hump her?? I thought it was just hormones, but then just now she bit Lulu's ears!! No blood but the ear is tender and there's a mark. I separated them but Mocha just kept going. Now she is fenced and I am near tears what do I do? A friend of mine says it is "leadership" problems but I'm so scared now. How would I ever leave them alone again, just the two of them? Will I have to separate them for the rest of my life? How am I going to trust the Mocha again?? Please please please help. __________________ Nita Mocha & Lulu

12-22-2008, 08:38 AM	#3
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	Yes, they will have to be separated when nobody is there and if you were there when this happened, they may need to be all the time. Could you hire a trainer? __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

12-23-2008, 05:10 AM	#6
Ellie May And Rylee Finnegan Donating Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Metro Detroit, MI Posts: 17,928	Let them sort it out? There was a thread started on YT not long ago about two Yorkies fighting. One of them had to have their eye removed because of it. Anytime you let dogs fight, you are taking a risk. Even if you are alpha over both of them, Mocha is obviously taking second place. You could start between them and face Mocha when this happens and give some kind of verbal discipline (but the people who only use positive reinforcement will disagree with this). When big dogs get in Ellie's face and she growls and snaps to get them away, I sometimes allow it because she is telling them to stop but I always hesitate because then she may carry that behavior over to other situations with dogs where she has no right to do that. I also think it is possible for Ellie and big dog to get hurt. So, I start between them as much as possible and keep them separated for the most part. __________________ Crystal, Ellie May (RIP), Rylee Finnegan, and Gracie Boo🐶

12-23-2008, 06:12 AM	#9
JoeyP YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Miami, FL,USA Posts: 1,005	You're definitely dealing with a dominance issue but dominance doesn't always mean Aggression Your Yorkie is showing dominance ... but she's also showing aggression as well and that's what needs to be stopped the growling and biting need to be corrected immediately if your Yorkie growls and bites when people leave set that condition up have someone go to leave the room The minute your Yorkie goes to growl or bite You need to be there to correct EH! and a nudge Make sure she listens to you watch their eating ... are they growing at each other during mealtimes? over toys? use these instances to get a handle on your Yorkie one always has to be dominant but that never means fighting and biting __________________ Mike and Zach's Dadd

12-23-2008, 06:42 AM	#11
Ashley V ♥ Chip ♥ Smokey ♥ Donating Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Leesburg Posts: 3,835	When she does this, pick her up and put her on her back and tell her no. Force her to submit to YOU. She will fight you at first but DO NOT let her up until she submits. We used this method on Chip (who is aggressive on many random occasions) and he knows now that when we say no, it means no. And we used it on Smokey and now when he knows he's in big trouble, he automatically rolls over and submits. __________________ ~~ Chip ~~ Smokey ~*~ My heart is wrapped around their little paws Karley Marissa born 1/20/12 weighing 8 lbs 11 oz and 21.5 inches long

12-22-2008, 08:36 AM	#2
Keely_momma No Longer a Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Newfoundland Canada Posts: 392	Awww. Im sorry your goign through this. The humping is mochas way of showing dominance towards lulu. Keely does this to my neighbors german shepherd to show dominance.

12-23-2008, 06:38 AM	#10
Woogie Man Donating Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Mississippi Posts: 2,564	I didn't see you post whether or not your girls are intact or not. If they aren't spayed you will have more of a problem. It may be a dominance issue but if they aren't spayed, it could be more intense than if they were.

12-23-2008, 08:45 AM	#12
Cha Cha Donating YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Where the deer and the antelope play Posts: 7,069	My little Yorkie has been exhibiting the same type of behavior, only my other dog is an aged special needs min pin. What I have noticed is that the aggression ONLY happens when mostly me, or any other family member is present, so I don't have anything to worry about leaving the two of them alone together. Heck, they will curl up next to eachother. What works for me and what I have instructed the others in my house to do is this..... My Yorkie clearly shows aggression before the fight is actually on. She has a glare and a stance about her that tells us she is showing aggression. When she does this, whoever is present is to immediately turn their back on the Yorkie, turn away from her, and if possible leave the room. For some reason, this has been helping and the incidences of aggression has begun to stop. It's kind of like if no one is going to watch why do it. Now, we are able to just tell her no! before we turn our backs and she will stop. The min pin, even though old and handicapped will fight back. Both my dogs show submission to me as "top dog" so I believe our problems are over who is going to be second in command, LOL.

12-23-2008, 01:58 PM	#13
Xaleia YT Addict Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Lincoln, CA Posts: 252	I also was told by an experienced trainer........ That one will be dominant..and one will be submissive. Your original dog may never show domiance and Mocha may take over the lead ..of those two. There is nothing wrong with that. Submission is good and it's OK for Mocha to be dominant. And you are Domiant over the both of them...this is the pecking order. I had these same problems with Lei and Corkie all of their lives. I was able to leave them alone..because this issue always arrived when I was in the picture. Also, I was told...WHOMEVER of your two dogs shows the most domiance..then you need to acknowledge that. For instance...when you come home you acknowledge the Alpha dog first. Give treats to the Alpha first..etc...Everything... it's the Alpha first...then the other animal. I was told I could of avoided a lot of the fights between my two gals if I would of done that. Lei is now gone..but Marley has entered the picture. So far he is the most Alpha so I'm trying hard to pet, treat, love, kiss..etc..him first. It's hard because Corkie is my oldest and my little love...and she's elderly. But.. I do want these two to bond....and I want harmony in the home.....so..gonna try had to follow this advice. I'd kennel or keep them separate until you are comfortable there will not be problems when you are gone to work or whatever. There is my two kibbles on the subject Good luck girl __________________ ~On the 8th day, God made Yorkies~ Cj , Corkie Marley and now Lily Keilani!

12-23-2008, 02:43 PM	#14
brittahnee YT Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Louisiana Posts: 383	let me give you a warning, immediately. This same situation has happened to my Sophie, but she was the victim. However, she would sometimes be the instigator and start the fights. It's always with my other female, and it didn't start until after Sophie went into heat. They always would get into random fights, a lot of times drawing blood. My mother and I bought muzzles, because apart from spaying the two (which we are currently in the process of doing.) it was all we could do to fix the problem. And it worked, but only a temporary solution as the muzzles seemed so mean for the dogs. There was a long time when they stopped, which I though they had just "outgrown" it, but then the jealousy issues. I couldn't pick one u, pet one, or lay next to one without the other getting obviously jealous and attacking. Instead of getting better, it was just getting worse. Luckily, there had been no serious injuries. It was scary more than anything. I knew my other female (she is a sheltie, and really - the sweetest dog ever) wasn't trying to kill her, just protect herself. Well one day when i got home (and i still continue to blame myself for this) i picked up sophie immediately. it had been over a day since I saw her, and i missed her terribly. When I put her down, the fight started again. We got very good at pulling the two apart in time, but we weren't so lucky this time. In the process (to make a long story short.) Sophie's eye was bulging, and unable to be pushed back into the socket, which only left one option -- remove the eye. We went from having no injuries from fights, to this very serious one. We are trying to get the females spayed, and pray it works, because i love both of my dogs. (although i still hold a grudge to my sheltie for doing it to my baby..) and i would hate to see the sheltie get rehomed. and just in case anyone was curious, Sophie is 10 pounds and my sheltie is about 20. So there wasn't that much difference between the two. __________________ BRITTAHNEE Sophie's Mommy