wow i must have miss the thread...but i know the feeling...and i becoming more and more distant here...everything seems to be more of a debate than anything now a days...i hope that changes....

So then you can be against a puppymill and be FOR the pup, because the only way for us to save the largest amount of pups is to shut down puppymills by refusing to buy from them. You said it. :) You can do both.

Yes we can do both if that's the route chosen....But you have a lot of ppl here and in the country that say they are against puppymills, think they should not be allowed to do what they do, but then go into a pet store, and know it's wrong, but buy the pup because it is so and cute and say they need to be rescued as well. So until 'that' cycle stops, we can't do both :(

I have a really serious question, and I am NOT being combative/argumentative.....but are ALL pet stores around this great country of ours really crooked??? Do ALL pet stores buy from puppy mills , or out there somewhere is there a pet store that is kind of , well I guess exclusive maybe, that has a good reputation with good breeders and is committed to stocking quality pups and getting them to good homes????

I'm just asking because I know there are exceptions to every rule.... and it any of you know of such a place would you please post it. I just want to feel better I guess.

In my life time, before coming here , and knowing better, I have bought 3 pet store dogs. My Rockie RIP, Mercedes, a Lasha, and Mika, my grand-dog. By the time I got Maya, I was hip and did better. But I just want to know if such a pet store exists.

The thread wasn't deleted...

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...-decision.html

I don't know of any reputable breeder who would sell puppies to a pet store....these breeders want to know where their puppies are going and don't allow unlimited registration to just any one.

I won't be run out, but I am choosing to leave....Some have been extremely helpful but If all they do is judge I got better things to do and Chewie and I can figure it out on our own.....Peace to all who were helpful may your holidays be filled with joy...

You're right.....I forgot about that aspect of it. Still hard to believe that it is not out there somewhere...What if this mythical store screened customers VERY carefully as well, and the breeder and the store both had an agreement on that??? Just fantasizing I guess. I want to believe in the good in commerce in the US exist somewhere in this area.

I think the problem is the supply aspect. Pet stores sell many breeds....and always need more puppies.

I am not sure that it is out there....

Try to imagine yourself as a breeder. Try to imagine going thru the stresses of delivery, tube feeding, sleeping very little b/c the 'runt' needs to be bottle feed every 2 hrs in order to survive, try to imagine caring for the Mom that had to have an emergency C-Section, and the list goes on....I can't imagine going thru all of that and then turning around and handing the pups over to a Pet Store to sell them according to their standards and rules....Just doesn't make sense to me that responsible, caring breeders would do that EVER :(

I know this wasn't asked of me, but I figured I could throw my personal opinion into the "pot" so to speak :p.

I don't know of any pet store that doesn't purchase from a large scale commercial breeder or mill. I believe that pet shops must purchase from a USDA breeder and those are usually larger operations.

As a side note not related to your question --

What I think is so challenging is that even with small breeders you never really know if they are just as bad as a mill. Even though a breeder may not be a large operation, the care of the animal may not always be the best and thought may not be given to the pairings of the dogs there. I think many also fall into the trap that because a breeder is small, they are "good" breeders which is unfortunately untrue.

What the entire situation comes down to (for me) is that it's the ethics behind the entire situation. I think that the way animals both farm and companion are treated is a direct reflection of greed and product demand. And what is worse is you will *never* hear a pet store being up front and honest about where these pups come from.

I'm going off on a tangent here, lol. But as much as I think it's important to educate others, I think there's a fine line to walk when trying to discuss the issues and trying to persuade someone not to buy from a pet shop. In the end pushing personal beliefs on others will never accomplish the true goal which is really education.

I'm sure all of us have gotten discouraged with some of the posts on Yorkietalk and felt like leaving, but if you really wish to avoid drama, you shouldn't post that you are leaving. Just go away for a time, until you can put things in proper prospective.

If you read post 14 of the F&Q http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/gen...delines.htmlit states:

Quote:

I completely agree that puppy mills are an abomination. If you really feel this way... why are you defending them? What is this whole post about?

It's about your "enemy" not being demonized to the point that you have lost all perspective, become a zealot and lose the ability to coerce people to your side. Saying "puppy mills shouldn't exist" is like saying "factory farms shouldn't exist." We are a long way off from having enough people with the worldview that these things are wrong to do any significant damage to them.

Most people (I'd even venture a lot of people here) have had a Big Mac knowing how terrible factory farm conditions are, or maybe bought a puppy from a "disreputable" source because it was an impulse buy or maybe better on their budget. But just because they have been enlightened that their past actions were bad does not give them the right to force others into that same experience.

Awareness that other sentient beings than humans have fears and desires and emotional lives is something that does not come easily to people, because it inherently means that they must admit to ignorance or cruelty or both. The harder you try to force someone into a perspective shift like that, the harder they're going to resist.

That's why maintaining the fine line between education and emotional blackmail is very important. If you emotionally blackmail someone with your perspective, they won't trust you. And as an extension of that, they will not trust or believe in your opinion.

Puppy millers aren't Nazis, they're just people who have a very different perspective on animal rights/ethics than others do. There are lots and lots of people like this out there who don't treat animals as family or friends or even fellow sentient beings - rural families who don't fence their yards because if their dog gets run over, it's "just a dog" and they go to the flea market to get a new one; people who go around wearing fur who have no problem with how that fur was produced, people who leave their dogs behind when they get evicted, even if that dog has been in their family for several years. The Chinese view animals much differently than Westerners do. Dogs are pets, and food, and fur, all in the same package.

Would you eat your dog? How about if you were starving? At what point does the Western view of the dog shift back into objection? What is the mindshift between "companion" and "commodity"?

As far as puppy millers go, you can't make blanket judgements about a group of individuals, because there is no way that every person in that group fits your exaggerated version of who they are. When you do you immediately devalue your opinion in the eyes of people you are trying to get to agree with you, because you obviously have a bias.

THAT is the point.

I personally think she came in with an IM BETTER THAN YOU ATTITUDE because she is a LAWYER and she felt intimidated by YT members who where just giving their opinions and knew MUCH more than her....I feel for those two pups that wont have a home and will probably be traveling on a plane to who knows where....or get sold to a petstore. She brought those two pups in all of our lives...By posting. Im mad at her for not being mature, Who cares about THE PERFECT YORKIE but onlly to discarding these pups like they are nothing. HEAR HEAR to all the members that had the nerve to post their feelings and information to this Lawyer. YOU ARE TRUE ANIMAL LOVERS...Lissette

Because those of us who feel the situation was mishandled eat kittens for breakfast. :rolleyes: