Color discrimination - what's the dilly-o?
 

I've read on the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America's website that they do not support the breeding of "gold" yorkies or "Biewer Yorkshire terriers" (piebalds)...and the AKC considers any colors but blue/black/gold/tan combinations to be a disqualification...

Does anyone know why they're so adamant against widening the standard for the Yorkshire terrier? What's wrong with having more than one standard color? Is there a historical reason behind the blue and tan coat, other than "that's the way it's always been"...?

I'm just curious. I'm considering a Biewer Yorkshire terrier in the future at some point. I think they're gorgeous little dogs.

Every breed has a standard, and once you vary the standard too much you are watering down what makes the yorkie look like a yorkie. Some people would like to change the coat type; others would like to change the ears to include longer floppier ears. There's always going to be people who want something different. The Biewer people are trying to get recognition as a separate breed and AKC status; will people be telling them to include Yorkies without the piebald markings? Many people love the Biewers, and they have very strict standards, the Parti, on the other hand, is just a recessive gene that occasionally shows up when a puppy has received the recessive gene from each parent. There is no standard or special makings, and all Parti's look different. The YTCA frowns on breeding the recessive, and that's their choice. Maybe if there were lots and lots of great looking Yorkies who met standard and were healthy, the YTCA would open the dorr to more variations. For now, there doesn't seem to be an overload of the standard. By dog breed standards the Yorkshire Terrier is a relatively new breed, and keeping tighter restrictions for a while is probably best for the breed.

Biewers are from germany and have their own club. I dont even think they want to be associated as a yorkie terrier but want to be recognized as their own breed.

YTCA is the parent club of the yorkshire terrier and as such they set the standard for the breed. Biewers are completely unrelated to this club.

Ah, that's it then. I didn't realize the Parti yorkies and the Biewers were two different types. :)

The YTCA does not believe that the parti yorkie and the other odd ball colors are pure Yorkie. The Yorkie does not carry the pieball gene. Research the history of the Yorkie. It has already been established that the Biewer is not a pure Yorkie. It probably started as a shih-tzu or papillon Yorkie cross. This is most likely the same for the parti Yorkie. There have been way too many irresponsible "breeders" before DNA tests that were only "in it" for the $$$$. I have witnessed first hand how some of these "breeders" have produced parti colored "yorkies" and believe me, they were not pure Yorkie. Then these "breeders" ask outlandish amounts of $$ for these "rare" colored puppies. These are two of the reasons that YTCA will not change their standards: no proof that they are 100% Yorkie and YTcA does not support "breeders" that only breed for $$$ and are not interested in breeding to the breed standard. These "breeders" do not have the best interest of the breed as the #1 priority.
There are others on this forum that have other opinions about this issue.

Gotcha. I didn't realize the Yorkshire didn't carry a piebald gene.

Bhikku...the Biewer is different from the Parti. The Biewer is from Germany, they are German and U.S. registered although not AKc recognized. There is a standard set forth by the German club and that is the same standard we follow in the U.S. The Biewer keeps it's long tail where the Parti tail is docked like a Yorkie and the Biewer has a standard for color placement where the Parti doesn't. I have always been a Yorkie person through and through but when I met the Biewer I was hooked! I still love Yorkies but the laid back personality of the Biewer pulled me in...they are quiet yet playful, loving and loyal...not to mention simply beautiful with their striking colors and plume like tail. I have 4 Biewers and I don't think you would be disappointed if you decide to add one to your family.

As for the Biewer not being from the Yorkie...well...I won't even get into that controversy. :rolleyes:

They're awfully cute. I bet they're hard to find in my part of the country though...it's harder to find the "rare" breeds here...

The Biewer comes from two Yorkshire Terriers that were bred in Germany. Germany sees them as a tri-color yorkie. They did seperate them from the yorkies in Germany and set a standard for them so they could be shown. Most in Germany still breed back to the yorkie to increase the gene pool as it is very limited.

No where is there proof that anything has for sure been bred into the Biewer lines. They do test different because of the pieball gene but it is unclear if anything was bred into them at this point.

i just 'googled" and found this: It is copied and pasted

Biewer Yorkshire a la' Pom Pon, pronounced (Bee-vir) was started by in January of 1984. Mr. Werner Biewer and his wife, Mrs. Gertrud Biewer, residents of Germany, founded the first Biewer Yorkshire "Schneeflocken von Friedheck". This occurred when they bred two traditional yorkies, "Darling von Friedheck" and "Fru Fru von Friedheck" (both youth winners at Dortmund in 1981) who both happened to share the same recessive piebald gene.

Mr. Biewer worked on this finding to perfect the coloring which were white across the chest, stomach and legs, This also included the tip of the tail. He began showing the Biewer in 1988. He then worked towards having the dogs recognized as their own breed. His first attempt, with the VDH failed but later found success in the ACH (or so it was called while still in operation) and the breed was finally declared a breed of its own.

In 1997, Mr. Werner Biewer passed away but his efforts for his treasured breed will grace homes of Biewer owners and will live on through their work.

To date, the American Kennel Club (AKC) does not recognize the Biewer as a breed. In Dec. of 2007 the American Rare Breed Association(ARBA) accepted the Biewer Terrier as a rare breed. The Biewer Terrier Club of America, Inc.(BTCA,Inc.) was accepted as the National breed club at this time.


[edit] References

More:

The Biewer was originally a banded/belted genetic recessive gene occurrence from 2 Yorkshire Terriers but unscrupulous breeders have tried to match the looks of the Biewer Yorkshire by crossing the Yorkshire Terrier and the Shih-Tzu. The crossing will produce the parti/piebald white markings from the Shih-Tzu influence after the second generation but these crossbred dogs would take generations before they would produce the hair coat and the facial features seen in the Biewer Yorkshire. If the dog being presented to you as a Biewer Yorkshire has wavy and/or course hair, or the facial features or body style of the Shih-Tzu then it's highly unlikely that it is a TRUE purebred Biewer Yorkie.

also googled.

here is the source:BIEWER YORKIE History

While I don't know any breeders specifically in AL....there are some in FL, SC, and other surrounding states. :)

YTCA claims that, however....AKC dna'd parti yorkies to determine parentage and they were indeed yorkshire terriers. This is the reason parti's are allowed to be registered AKC.

Based on various readings I've done these are considered genetic defects that can lead to health issues ....some of the info I came across...

Teacup yorkies, Chocolate yorkies, parti-colored yorkies, Yorkie Breeder info

Young Yorkies Present AKC Standard Yorkshire Terriers Explained by Carolyn Hensley

Yorkie puppy coat color stages within the first two years of maturity - yorkie hair color

I am the proud owner of Manolo whos father and grandfather are champion blood lines. I dont show Manolo but everyone tells me I should. Its funny because Lola my sugar plum and Manolo have had 6 pups ( NO MORE) and one of them to me looks like a Parti. TeresaM, Gracie...I tell her this everytime I see them. She is silvery white and black and has some gold around her mouth. None of the other pups have this color and they are 9months old. I think it must be a recessive gene thing.....She is gorgous.

Oh I'd like to see her picture.

So Bchgirl, is it true all Biewers are more laid back?

The difference I see here....Reggie is much more gentler...(is that a word :confused: ). I really don't know how to describe it...just a sweeter personality and very eager to please.

I do not think he's laid back though....he cuddles but he loves to rough house, play and bark. He also gets a case of the zoomies....that's when you run in circles at 100 miles an hour. Or as fast as biewers/yorkies go anyway.

My experience with the Biewers is they are laid back, gentle, and wonderful pups. They are very different imho from their 1st cousins the Yorkies.

So the opposite of laid back is hyper? Seriously, I'm always reading how laid back they are, and I was wondering what it meant?

At the risk of hurting some feelings (definitely not the intention) I do think that some of the Biewers are stunningly beautiful, however...

What I don't get is the idea that a certain color, or combination is rare. What is actually rare is quality. So few people are interested in quality, or capable of producing it, that it's just easier to push novelty as having value. Basic homework will give enough education to produce novel colors or combinations, but can it be done while maintaining health, structure, grace, movement, balance, sophistication, profile, temperament, etc.?

I admire those who devote themselves to researching and producing only the best, whether it's a Yorkie, Biewer, Parti, or another breed, all are to be commended because they are a dying breed themselves. Sure they would love for the program to support itself, but since that rarely happens they continue because they love the breed and the accomplishment.

The point being is that a poor quality dog of an unusual color only has value to the person who cannot see the fact that it is a poor quality dog. A well bred, healthy, structurally correct dog... of any color... and the person who bred him is the real rarity. JMHO

Excellent post! I'm not sure most people even understand what "quality" means, and therefore obvious things such as ultra low weight, or novel colors become more sought after.

I love me some chocolate yorkie :) I first had Bella who is within the standards for color, then came along coco. Coco probably wasn't bought from the best breeder I could have found and she did have some minor problems when we first brought her home but she is small, sturdy and sooo loving. I've always been living with labs and love the color variations they can have so I think its just within me to want different colors of the same breed. I do not agree with prices being higher because they are "rare" or any of that BS however.

There may be no proof that the off colored yorkies are pure but there is no proof that they are not. To me it is more logical that the non papered, free to roam dogs who began this breed had more genes hiding in their background then their blue and tan coat coloring revealed.

Color discrimination is a good way to describe it ... Some don't accept the parti, golden or chocolate yorkies but they will accept their blue and tan full siblings & blue and tan parents (grand parents, great grand parents ...) who carry the same genes. Is it because they are the accepted color (blue and tan)? Their correct coloring must make them a pure bred? The traditional colored parents who produced these off colors, are just as much of a "non purebred" as their off colored pups are, yet the traditional colored ones are accepted?

I don't see the same color discrimination with black coated adults. I'm sure some who oppose the parti, chocolate and golden colored yorkies, may own and breed a black and gold, or sooty colored yorkie?

I found an interesting website that had excerpts from a diary written in the 1870's where a man was in search of "Scotch terriers" to improve his bloodlines. In his writings he talks about seeing different lines (owned by different breeders) of scotch terriers with white feet and bald (white) faces. The yorkie has Scotch terrier in their background, Swift's Old Crab was a crossed scotch terrier (crossed with what I wonder?)

You can't tell the genes within a dog, by looking at the color of it's coat and even though it's thought that the founding dogs were only blue and tan, that does not mean the genes within them will only produce blue and tan offspring.

Parti, golden and chocolate yorkies are no more prone to health issues than blue and tan yorkies are. Blue born yorkies are a different matter and often do have major health, skin and hair problems.

Other than the blue borns, the other off colored yorkies are not caused by a "genetic defect", their coloring is the result of recessive genes for those particular colors that are carried by both their parents. When a pup receives a recessive parti gene from the sire and a recessive parti gene from the dam, the pup will be parti colored (or chocolate or golden depending on which recessive color genes the parents carry).

People who still claim that parti, chocolate and golden colors are "genetically defective" are behind the times and need to do some research on canine coat color genetics ;-)

Nope, they are not as 'rare' as you'd think here in good ole AL. I have a Biewer. :)

My Biewer is definately more laid back than my standard Yorkies. She doesn't really like a lot of commotion and will slink of to nap somewhere quiet while the Yorkies want to be right in the middle of all the turmoil.

They are NOT registered with FCI or the German Kennel Club in Germany . To make it clear, the registries you are referring to, are the Biewer Kennel CLub registries only, the Biewer Kennel CLub and Biewer yorkies or Biewer Terriers depending on who you are talking to, is NOT recognized by the FCI in Europe, the German Kennel Club in Europe, the AKC in US, the Canadian Kennel Club in Canada.

Yes there is proof Biewers are not pure yorkies. The Biewer Club members submitted DNA samples from their dogs to a geneticist; the report came back there is very little yorkie in these dogs.
That was on the Biewer Terrier CLub of AMerica website for a while, disappeared last time I checked.
There is no such colour as a gold born yorkie pup. I have seen pictures of alleged pb gold born and they do not look at all like purebreds.
A gold mature yorkie can result from colour running gold where the gold furnishings have run into the blue covering the blue. Buit if you cut down the coat, you can see the blue pattern. It would considered to be pet quality, not something to be used in a breeding program.
Chocolate colour yorkies are a result of two recessive genes. There have been certain health issues mostly skin problems but not really something you can 't live with as far as I know. I don't know what kind of longevity for a life spand has been noted in a Chocolate yorkie.
Understanding the world of purebred dogs and understanding breed standards, working with long time reputable show breeders will usually clear up any questions about why a parent Club such as YTCA would not allow 'rare' colours or other anomolies to take over the breed.