Again, this is why the person who posted about my breeder caused me to have a slight issue. Everyone thinks my breeder is this horrible person and she is not.

I HAVE A HEALTH GUARANTEE! I have made myself perfectly clear to her and drafted another contract for this breeder to sign. We both signed our respective agreements. I have stated in this thread, that she wont screw me over in anyway (not that I believe she will), but if something goes wrong, my heat will be broken and she will be in trouble.

And the fact that I have to pay for the second dog and now have double the cost of everything...allows me to know that maybe that is not the way I should go. But, given that my cousin who lives in my building is able to purchase the pup -- we will have them close by. A few of my friends that live near me here in the city are considering on purchashing one of them if I dont. So, when I am considering both....its just doesnt mean me by myself.

And all of these reputable breeders that I have gone to in NY and have been to their homes have a 1year health guarantee. I went and saw 3 and spoke to 4 of them. I didnt like any. They were breeding for money and in the summer, they kept them outside! So, again, you cant judge someone by a title---breeder, commercial breeder.....etc.

I think my breeder is far better than any of the ones I have seen.

I have received so many private messages from YT members upset at how many of you have spoken on this thread. I can see why now. I try to help people....never upset or aggravate them. I also dont judge unless I have seen with my own eyes. I see on TV all the time the health department shutting down restaurants....just because the majority may be a chinese one, doesnt mean I would never go to a Chinese restaurant ever again. I need to see with my own eyes and feel with my heart if that is a place I want to sit and eat. I needed to see with my own eyes about this breeder and feel with my own heart if this is the right decision to make.

Personally, I am thinking that I should just lose the money I paid and forget even getting a dog. You have really turned me off from the whole situation!:mad:

I never said my puppy was 8 weeks. I said the new puppy would be 10 weeks if I asked to have her shipped next week. Not sure where your getting that from, but not from me. I did state that I knew puppies being shipped at 8, 10 and 12 weeks.

ok, YT is just trying to help, they deeply care about yorkies so I am sure they are not trying to turn you off the buying dog. I take their words of advice seriously because like you, I am getting my first puppy. They have many years of experience I think they are just trying to help. if you didnt want opinions you should not have posted...you asked for help and they are trying to help you...If you are serious about getting your dog, you should not let anything persuade you otherwise...Just take in their advice, they are only trying to help and offer you sound advice

....please DO NOT blame this on me....Your breeder may be as "Sweet as Pie" ~ and that's great that she does have a Health Guarantee and that you made her sign a contract and that she has sent you pretty pictures, etc....But it doesn't dismiss that she is a Commercial USDA Licensed and Inspected Breeder. Plain and Simple....Her dogs live in kennels and cages outside of her home. This is a mass producing business to her.

For those that are OK with this fact and think it's ok to support it, that is your opinion but please don't tell me that I caused an uproar....I think YT is a great place to live and learn and that's the reason I post what I post.

:thumbup:

Please don't shoot the messenger. TLC was just informing you that the breeder you have chosen is a USDA commercial breeder. Most people really appreciate the warning. In fact, in all the years I been active in dog forums, you are the first person who was not glad she was given a heads up that a breeder she was considering was on the USDA list.

The term "puppy mill" does not have anything to do with the cleanliness of the place, but rather the fact that puppies are mass produced.

Here is the definition of mill:

"A process, agency, or institution that... turns out products in the manner of a factory."

Could you fly there and pickup the pup, and let her fly back with you in the cabin? Except for the added expense and time this would be a good idea. I was considering this option myself until I saw the price of a round trip flight between NJ & MO.

This would be my advice, too. You would have to pay for your ticket, but you'd save on shipping the puppy. If you could see both puppies in person, then you'd know which one was the right choice.

I never judge you about not being able to decide on which dog to adopt. I offered a suggestion on listing the qualities you like about each dog and choosing the dog that has the qualities that you like the best. I expressed not adopting a dog until you are 100% sure you want the dog. I want you to feel happy not experience regret after adopting a dog. In addition, all of my posts on this thread mention that adopting a dog is an individual choice. When you ask people for help then everybody will give you their opinion. Everybody has an opinion and that does not make his or her opinion right or wrong. I would take people suggestions and adopt the dog I want. Just like Obama is doing. He is not letting America choose his dog. Sometimes there is a danger in asking for people's advice. I cannot wait to see your new puppy(s) on Yorkie Talk. Good Luck!

This is a subject (and I wasn't going to post, but finally couldn't resist) that is a VERY intense one for most of us... TLC (if I may) wasn't trying to turn you away from purchasing this puppy, I know that for a fact. I think what most people are trying to do is make you aware, and help, plain and simple. When I bought Roxi I didn't know about mills, USDA lists, or anything of the like. I didn't even know about YT!! So my point is that Roxi came from a USDA "breeder"... I LOVE the way Roxi looks, size, coloring, everything. Shes healthy & absolutley gorgeous. So when we decided to get another, I had posted about Roxi's "breeder". Another YT member looked up the "breeders" name (same as TLC has done for you) and she turned up on the USDA list.
I was SO upset, but I knew in my heart of hearts what we would find... But I KNEW I could NOT get Rocco from her.. Even though Roxi is so wonderful and perfect.. And as you have said, being a lawyer, you know how costly and time consuming litigation can be... Not saying this would happen, but actually going to a breeders home, seeing the parents, and seeing how these dogs are bred and live is just the best way to go.. If you DO decide on either, or both of these pups, at least GO to the place and SEE the pups, the parents, and how the dogs live. I'm sure it would be a very minimal cost to you in comparison to the alternative of vet bills and litigation should something go wrong, God forbid...

Please don't take anything you are reading as any kind of personal attack, its about sharing knowledge, experience and facts thats all... So I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide!

To the residents of Missouri and Pennsylvania -

I honestly and with my whole heart do NOT believe that you as YT members are judged by the state you are from. People on this site do not discriminate in that way. If your posts haven't received many responses, it's probably just that there are so many posts on this site now, that unfortunately many get overlooked. Please do not think that it's any reflection on how well-liked you are.

I also believe that there are MANY incredibly wonderful things about your states, and just because they are known to have a very high percentage of puppy mills and/or USDA breeders, that does not mean that ALL of the breeders are USDA or Puppy mills. What it DOES mean is that you need to be careful. I'm sure there are puppy mills in every community, just as there are good breeders in most communities.

To the OP - I think we all like to think that the breeders we speak to are honest, but if you frequent the sick/injured sections of this forum for any length of time, you will sadly learn that sometimes they are not.

You will be welcome here at YT with open arms no matter what you decide. People here are not attacking you that I have seen. Most of us just want to make sure that you have the knowledge to make a fully informed decision. That decision though is up to you and of course we will respect it.

It's a tough choice and a very important one. I wish you only the best. Please keep us updated.

:yeahthat::bravo:

Great post, Melanie---
to the op:
I'd also like to add: Just because you are a lawyer, does not mean that puppymills can't pull one over on ya!
Look at Oprah...she's very powerful, very rich---she is a journalist for goodness sakes!!! She has people doing research for her--- and yet, many believe that she got her goldens from puppymills.
This is a lifelong commitment---and a decision that shouldn't be taken lightly. I think that everyone here is very kind and has been very helpful in this thread and I hope that you take their advice.

We are the yorkie lawyers
 

Girl,people on Yorkie Talk are lawyers and want nothing but to defend those innocent pups and YOU...Trust in all these comments. They just want to inform you...I have a daughter in Medical school but I still teach her alot.Thats all these folks are doing with you,teaching you the facts.So listen,learn and you are going to be a great mom to those 2 babies waiting for you......SMILE and God Bless

IMO I think little Lola is the cutest! HOWEVER, you need to get the puppy YOU are in love with. If Lola isn't it then she's just not it. Someone will fall in love with her the way you have fallen in love with the other one. Don't feel bad. When I look for a new animal I ALWAYS go with the one I think is the cutest!!!!

When we went to pick up my Mufasa there were 2 yorkies to choose from. Mufasa and his brother. Mufasa was the fatter yorkie and PLAYFUL, his brother was smaller and a cuddler. As much as I wanted a cuddly puppy to snuggle with I fell in love with Mufasa and his face, the fact he was a fatty fat and he was just so stinkin playful. Me and my daughter fell in love with Mufasa and my son and husband wanted his brother. I won out (as I should have...ha) and it was the best decision because I just fell in love with him and I may have fallen in love with the other one but I didn't know that at the time.

You need to pick the one you are in love with!

Idea!
 

I just realized that no one has suggested the most obvious thing you could do. Ask a couple of people here on YT who live in the area to check out the breeder and facility in person and then call and tell you what they thought.

Maybe he/she could take a video camera and film the pups at play.

And since we know that this is USDA licensed facilty and you are an attorney, look at the inspection reports.

Thanks Judy!

I have a friend who works in Washington who knew a few people at the USDA and I spoke with them and they pulled her records and everything they said she had told me prior, so I know she was not lying. In addition, they said that she will not be renewing her licesne since she does not sell to brokers or pet stores and there is no need for one. They gave me the photos and the photos she had shown me were no different. She has no idea that I have done all this, so the fact that everything adds up is nice and helps me believe that she is not lying.

I am actually off to California on a business trip, so hopefully if I get my mind off this for a bit I can come back with a clear mind to make a decision.


Hope everyone has a lovely Thanksgiving. :aimeeyork

I just have to say this. Please don't take offense because I don't mean it
to be offensive. We all know what Puppy Mills are and how they should
be shut down, right? Ok ,she cancelled her licence now but what about before
that? How can we get the laws to change regarding closing these facilities
down when attorney's are going to them to buy puppies? Aren't you
concerned about the well being of the parent's who are forced to produce
one litter after the other? Why would you go to some place like this when
you can go to a local breeder? There are several here on YT with beautiful
puppies and come with references as well. You can see the siblings, parents
and actually talk to other's who have purchased puppies from YT member's.
Whatever you decide I wish you good luck. I just needed to ask that
question.

Last post from me
 

My mistake...I meant she should not renew her license according to the USDA. I dont feel like I need to defend her or my decision anymore. This has gotten out of hand.

She does not allow her puppies to breed every heat cycle --this is not from her its from their records. To me she is like any other breeder. I have yet to meet one that doesnt do it for the money and the love of animals. But, I am sure there are breeders out there that only do it for the love of the puppies and to bring joy to people (while charging thousand upon thousands of dollars). I did a little math and the breeders that were supposed to be very good here in NY that I saw, after asking them how many puppies they sell a year and at the astronomical amount that they do, they make just as much as my breeder does!!!!

She refused to sell to a co-worker because she didnt think she could handle taking the pet. Other people have stated that the breeder they went to didnt care who the pet went with. Doesnt this show you something about her??? She actually cares where the pup goes.

If she takes care of the pups, allows them in her home, has yet to lie to me, treats the parents well and retires them early, doesnt allow them to mate every heat cycle, questions each person she sells, names the puppies, socializes them----then why, because she does it for a living and produces more than a breeder may, have such a stigma against her.

I thank all the private messages I have gotten, but this truly is too much. I just asked the opinion about the dogs and now we are into breeders and puppymills and ethics.

This is not the advice I asked for at all.


I am very uncomfortable with the fact and fear that my breeder may be harrassed by some of you or stalked. This is very unnerving to me and I believe lines have been crossed that legally shouldnt be.


This is draining. This is my last post on this thread. It seem so toxic now. I just dont have the energy anymore. I was so happy about everything and now it is truly tainted. I will make my decision, but doubt I will be part of this community. I have to catch a flight. Hope you all have a wonderful holiday. :aimeeyork

Why don't you pm the Administrator and have this thread closed?

Good luck with your decision. You have gotten a lot of good information.

"In addition, they said that she will not be renewing her licesne since she does not sell to brokers or pet stores and there is no need for one."

"My mistake...I meant she should not renew her license according to the USDA. "

There is a CLEAR difference in those two statements, and I am not sure you could accidentally write the 1st statement, if that is NOT what you intended to write, it sounds as if you are trying to convince people anyway you can that you have "investigated" and this breeder is gold... but to be honest I don't believe you have. This all sounds a bit funny to me.

THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT THE PUPPY so if you care about the puppy.. just make your decision without letting these opinions affect you. If your conscience is sound and you are confident with your breeder there is absolutely NOTHING you should feel the need to defend.

To be honest "LEGALLY" there is NOTHING wrong with this thread, any attorney would know that. It's a message board there are very little laws available to stop what is said on them.

Hope you enjoy your new furbaby when you get her...:aimeeyork

I agree with the OP. This thread got way out of hand...

I did a little math and the breeders that were supposed to be very good here in NY that I saw, after asking them how many puppies they sell a year and at the astronomical amount that they do, they make just as much as my breeder does!!!!



This may be so but in order for "Your Breeder" to make as much as
they NY Breeder who say charge 1,500.00 per puppy your breeder
would have to sell "Three" at $500.00 ea for the "One" the NY
breeder sells in order to make the same amount of money, right?
Therefore your breeder has to breed more puppies to make as
much. I didn't say it you did.

I agree Archie, I used to breed a bully breed and we sold our pups for around $2500-$3000 a pup but only had about 2 litters per year and sold them to SELECTIVE homes, as a breeder I can tell you that if you are selling your pups at $500 a pup then you are NOT being very selective as to where they are going YOU CANT BE as you would be breeding to many pups to keep track of like that, and would have to breed your dogs 2-3 times as much as a breeder who sells as cheap as $1500 just to make what they are making a year.. which means you would be MASS producing just to keep up. As a breeder I can tell you this, if you are producing in large amounts it's only for MONEY because whelping a litter is a HUGE RESPONSIBILITY and anyone who wants to do it every month or even every other month has to be INSANE or GETTING SOME BIG BREAD as it takes a huge toll on you and is honestly like another job.

I would personally never spend $2500-$3000 dollars on a dog, AKC or otherwise. I got my purebred yorkie pup for $350 bucks from a backyard breeder. He was originally $400, but the breeder lowered the price upon request since it's pretty obvious he's going to be oversized and there is a smaller market for teapot yorkies than for "teacup" yorkies.

I got to meet the breeder and her family, I interacted with both parents of my dog to check their temperament (the only two dogs the woman owned) and I was given a kit of stuff to go with my puppy (food, etc..). She answered every question I had and allowed me to rub all of my puppy's new toys on his mother and father to reduce separation anxiety. The dog came with a health guarantee and a record of his immunization. The puppies were raised in the home and started on pee pad training. I was allowed to temperament test each one of them.

I don't know anyone who could afford some of the high dollar dogs I see offered by show-quality breeders (not that I'm saying reputable breeders aren't reputable, it's just that I don't think people who breed out of their house as a hobby are necessarily disreputable...)

I think some of the exaggerated ("purified") qualities produced in dog breeds by inbreeding and linebreeding cause more genetic problems than anything else. Some dogs with strong pedigree lines look just as inbred as they are. Then show breeders have the nerve to blame genetic problems on people who throw together two unrelated dogs in a backyard somewhere.

Even dogs which are not perfect as far as conformation goes (oversized, longer muzzle than standard) may contain much healthier genes than a dog which is conformationally perfect, but may carry recessive genes for a variety of devastating diseases...Just because you have your inbred breeding stock x-rayed for hip dysplasia doesn't mean those dogs are guaranteed not to throw dysplastic puppies.

Not everyone who breeds dogs without showing them or belonging to a nationally recognized breed registry is a puppy miller, I guess is what I'm trying to say. People shouldn't be made to feel like they're contributing to animal abuse if they don't pick a top-dollar AKC breeder.

How come you said you were leaving to go on a trip but your on here now?

EDIT - The above was not intended to offend anyone, especially serious or full-time breeders, I just don't think the issue is a black and white one when it comes to where you get your puppy from...

In my opinion, if breeders priced high-quality dogs a little lower (not dirt cheap, but not prohibitively expensive) then people would not turn to the alternative of getting one out of the classifieds section of the newspaper.