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Nancy,
I agree with your last post - but even the "may" is more "none". I'm am new to this forum thing - so haven't yet learned how to do the "quotes" - please bear with me there.

I think that if someone is going to breed for the Hybrid puppy, than it is important just as breeding for a purebred to use the best of each breed - not just a dog that can't "cut it" as a breeder for a purebred dog - or not just someone that gets a non standard "pet quality" for a small amount of money then thinks they will just breed these dogs to make the "designer puppy" and make more money. But if someone really wants a nice "Morkie" or Yorkiepoo, or some other such hybrid dog - then they also deserve to have healthy, hearty, and sounds dogs in their hybrid pet also.

On one part of the article is says "may" and on a different part of the article, lower down, it says "often". The vet's that I spoke to also used the word "often" or "more often", or "more of a chance" etc. In either way, you are only going to get the better if you breed the best quality.

I only put the quote: Hybrid dogs, created by breeding two purebred dogs of different breeds (crossbred), have the advantage of heterosis, or hybrid vigor, and are often stronger and healthier than either of the parents. from Wikipedia (this same information can be found from any other places) to show that if done right, it is not necessarily going down in the quality of the puppy / dog as I have seen it said as "fact" no matter what, on YT quite often. But like the breeding of the purebred dog - a person doing this should learn as much as possible so that they do produce very nice puppies.

Anyone who thinks a good breeder makes a lot of money by raising puppies, has never been a "good" breeder". That goes for either the purebred dog or the designer dog. I am also thinking about Breeders that charge reasonable prices. Maybe those that dress their babies up like little Barbie dolls to sell them for $2500 and up are making money:confused:. I don't know anything about them. But I wouldn't recommend buying from them anyway.

So if a Silky was developed after the change, it wouldn't be recognized by the AKC as its own breed?

To me it's like saying if the maltipoo, or the morkie were to be fully developed (meaning generation after generation to get the right kind of genetics and temperament which would be the goal of a knowledgable breeder, at least that's what I'm assuming in this hypothetical situation) before the change in the AKC rules, then the maltipoo or morkie could have been recognized as it's own breed?

Remember, we're just imagining here....

:thumbup::thumbup:
Yes, I agree with what you are saying, and I think you're right, and there is something to this "hybrid vigor", probably the very best of dogs are one of a kind. Like I said in an earlier post, I think some of the very best dogs in the world can be found at the pound. ;)

I suppose it could have. I believe the change was made in 1960 that disallowed the cross between 2 pure breeds to be recognized. I have no idea about the why of it but the timing indicates that MAYBE it was due to complaints from breeders of pure breds. The Silky only made it in by one year before the change so it is curious about the rule change being made so soon after its recognition. So now, I guess it takes at least 3 breeds combined to be considered. Shorkie-poo, anyone? :aimeeyork :animal-pa :animal-pa :animal-pa :animal-pa :D

maltese yorkie and poodle mix
 

morkipoos please..i already have one.. so i guess im one step ahead..:cool:
i really dont think we need any new breeds to be recognized by akc..
its been 48 years .. and , as mentioned earlier.. it is good to keep hybrid vigor. by NOT breeding down too far from purebreed..

does a shorkipoo inherit the flatter face? ive never seen a shorkipoo:)

You think so do you? You have no idea no idea at all.

There is no such thing as hybrid vigour in dogs.
A genetic problem that may exist for example in the Yorkie and the Maltese will express itself in a cross breed of yorkie and maltese just as readily as in the purebred yorkie or maltese if the right genetic combination is there for the problem to manifest. Do you really think a gene that might be aproblem knows whether or not it is in a purebred or a crossbreed?
Read about how a new breed was recognized by the AKC or the Canadian Kennel Club in Canada that was the result of mixing breeds, IT was not by throwing some breeds together calling them something and suddenly they are a purebred.

We had been discussing this on the previous page, if you see what is written there, I had agreed with the statement that says.

"A dog hybrid is the offspring of parents of two different purebred dog breeds, more commonly called a crossbreed or crossbred in animal breeding. Crossbreeding (parents of two different purebred breeds) results in offspring that may be stronger and healthier than either parent, an effect called hybrid vigor, but only if both parents are genetically sound."

Some experts do believe there is a phenomenon called hybrid vigor; unfortunately it is not always there, so it is not predictable.

I was originally responding to post 353, so you might want to read that too for further clarification on this issue.

I am well aware of what those pages said. I don't agree however. Being in the pet indusstry as a professional dog groomer, trust me, I see more problems in crossbreeds aka mixes healthwise, structurally, than I have ever seen in purebreds. Hard to argue with experience.
Also, when I did my degree in Agriculture many years ago, with a very credited and well known university, this discussion regarding hybrid vigour was well covered in my genetics courses at the second through fourth year level for my bachelor degree.
It works in some plants and in animals the only hybrid vigour was crossing horse with donkeys which were sterile and could not be mated.
In those days a little cross breeding in cattle was attempted. It didn't work for the most part, got more problems and I don't believe it is continuing much.
In sheep, Finnish Landrace was crossed with Dorset to increase lambing percentages but as a ewe has only two teats, hard to raise more than two lambs per ewe. Whether the market lamb was better than either of the purebred parent was debatable.
But these examples are geared towards food production.
It is not the same drill at all for our beloved pets and what we are doing in breeding purebred dogs striving for the standard of the purebreds that we have.
I have seen Yorkie Poos anywhere from 5 lbs to 20 full grown, look anything like Yorkiyish to poodle sort of to neither. I have seen schnoodles that look like poodles, schnauzers and neither and again vary in size from about 10 lbs to 30.
buy a purebred dog from a REPUTABLE breeder and you should have a pretty good idea of what you will get. Buying a mixed breed will not avoid health or temperment problems. I often see more problems particularly in Shih Tzu mixes.

Some experts believe in it, it your choice to believe in it or not, my point is that even if there is such a thing, since it's not a certainty, in other words it doesn't happen at least 90% of the time, even when the parents are genetically sound, it's would be unpredictable and therefore rather useless in breeding.

Funny how that does seem to be the case, huh?:rolleyes:

I'm sorry, you just take what you want from what people post. There again...This is what I said.

I had a 3.25lb female that most of the Yorkiest...would agree not to breed, but due to ignorance of people they wouldn't breed her due to her weight. You yourself included...no offense to anyone else.

But what you don't understand is that she really is of body size of a 4.25 to 4.5 or maybe a 5lb female but needed to put "fat" or muscle on in the loin and hip area of which she has due to maturing and from producing a litter....kidda like getting "hippy" after you yourself has had a few children...hahaha. But because you don't understand and only are narrow visioned and see only what you want...then you make statements like you do....I'm sorry if you won't breed a 3.25 or 3.5lb female that is your lost...not mine.

Again a responsible breeder will make great judgments as to whether or not there female is reproducable, has a good body structure and is capable of having a litter!!! A longer bodied female is better for placement of pups and has the great ability of carrying even larger litters.

thanx...you said it and I agree.

thanx...you said it and I agree.

thanx...you said it and I agree.