Parti-Yorkie VS. Biewer
 

I'm going to open this thread, I've searched on here and can't find a definitive answer, ...are Biewers and Parti-Yorkies more or less the same thing? I understand Biewers have a German background...but the standards seem more or less identical save color. Are there any movements to open US Biewer studbooks up to Parti-colored yorkies?:confused:

I've been wondering the same thing...

I have been wondering about this as well.. can't wait to see the replys. I read a little bit about Biewers on here because I believe there is a breeder that has both Yorkies and Biewers that is on the For Sale thread... but I just learned of Parti Yorkies recently... :rolleyes:..I am so lost sometimes.

They are the same thing in that they both derived from standard Yorkies, or so the story goes. I do not see any desire for either side to combine efforts though, as there ARE differences between the two. As you pointed out, the German ancestry, there is a standard regarding color placement. Biewer breeders have worked decades to assert that there IS a difference and to separate the Biewers from Standard Yorkies, develop their own breed club(s) etc. That has not been done with the Partis.

Both Partis and Biewers have what is called a recessive pie-bald gene that is responsible for their coloration. The Biewer breeders took what essentially was a Parti Yorkie and breed it many hundreds of times to develop a special coloration and marking for the dog. The Biewer has a standard and several clubs and is trying to get listed with the AKC registry as a separate breed. Because European countries have banned tail docking the Biewer standard calls for a full tail. Parti's on the other hand really have no official standard, and are just regular yorkies who have two recessive piebald genes, and their color is considered not within standard, but they are can still be listed with the AKC if their parents were listed. There is no separate category for Parti, that I'm aware of, they are just considered Yorkshire Terriers.

Wrong. The Biewer Terrier breeders submitted DNA samples to prove they were Yorkies but the results were that they are not purebred Yorkies and currently are not recognized as purebred by any club other than the Biewer Terrier Club. A mix got in there somewhere. The Yorkie does not now nor did it ever carry a piebald gene.
The Biewer Club has now backtracked and now call them Biewer Terriers not Biewer Yorkies. They are not currently recognized as a breed by the German Kennel Club nor the FCI under whose rules for shows most clubs in Europe compete for their titles, nor does the AKC or Canadian Kennel Club recognize these as a breed.
This page is from the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America website that will explain to you about colour. YTCA is the parent club for the Yorkshire Terrier. Yorkshire Terrier Club of America (Awards)

Again, that depends on who you ask. And at this point, which of the many differnent theories can you really declare as more accurate than the next? There are numerous Biewer clubs currently, they don't all agree on this or numerous other issues with the dogs or even what they should be called at this point. Imagine that, controversy in the dog world....who'd have thought...:rolleyes:

The samples were sent to a genetist not just some lab somewhere. INterestingly enough the Biewer Terrier Club of America had her name and findings on their site which have now been removed. Kind of makes it harder to sell these dogs as purebred wrong colour Yorkies is my best guess as it was proven they are not pb piebald gene carrying Yorkies at all but were the results of crossing.
Really, people it doesn't matter at this stage except that they are not pb Yorkies. The Biewer Terrier Club of America is now trying to get them recognized as a breed, Terrier breed not a Yorkie. I hope they succeed and I do think it is great they are doing that. No longer can these dogs be represented as a 'rare' wrong colour of something they are not once the Biewer is recognized which the BT club will hopefully continue to pursue.
Don't hold your breath in the meantime thought, it takes many decades usually to get recognized.
Here in Canada for a new breed to get recognized, once the breed Club has all their applications etc in order, it still goes to the CKC membership for approval. It is one heck of a long process.

Again, it all depends on which "club" you are following. One one out of many Biewer breed clubs has elected to follow this path as far as I am aware, so this is not a 'blanket' answer that fits all. At the current time, there is still alot of skepticism and unanswered questions regarding Biewers floating around.
But I'm really not trying to turn this into a debate about the history of Biewers, because goodness knows there have been enough of those. (not meaning you Lorraine :))

It is honestly so hard and confusing to keep up with what Biewers are or arent anymore. It seems like everyone states something different about if they came from yorkies or not and what their title is.

wow
 

this is interesting

ok so if you have a male biewer and a female biewer, their offspring will be biewer's?

Yes. :) (That was actually an easy question! :p)

My explanation was intended to answer the question; your reply of "wrong" is confusing, is my whole answer wrong, or just parts of it. Your link to YTCA does not discuss the piebald gene, and I wasn't aware that some people argued whether or not the Yorkshire terrier carried the piebald gene. You are aware that the piebald gene is recessive and it would take two, one from each parent before it would show up on the Yorkie? Is this what you meant by, "The Yorkie does not now nor did it ever carry a piebald gene"? Or are you saying that the Yorkshire terriers don't even have the piebald gene in their DNA makeup. It's really difficult to get any "facts" because every one is so emotional on this issue, and their minds seem made up, but studies and links given often have very little do with backing up statements. Not trying to argue, and I really would like a clearer understanding of the matter.

ok, got that straight, so a parti is from a reg. yorkie with the piesomething gene right? So....(Im really learning here...)
you can get a parti from one parent carrying the gene?
or both have to have the gene? And If they do have the gene they can throw reg and parti as well as the blue, or gold, or red yorkies right?
And....this can skip generations also right?

No, you can't get a Parti from one parent carrying the recessive gene. Since the gene is recessive both parents have to give it before it "shows" on a dog. You need two recessive genes to actually "see" the trait, but only one dominant gene to "see" the trait. Mom and dad each have two genes for that trait, so that's a total of 4 genes combinations that could be given. Now if mom and dad both exhibit the Parti trait they can only give the recessive gene to the offspring. People often think of recessive traits as skipping a generation, but this doesn't happen the gene is passed on, but because it's recessive it just doesn't show, until another recessive gene is placed with it.

how interesting, thanks I appreciate you taking the time to educate me.

Hi Lorraine and thank you for your support of what we are doing for the breed. I'd like to clarify the reason for our testing almost 100 Biewer TERRIERS to date and that was to prove that they were not Yorkshire TERRIERS. The standard of 4 white legs, feet, belly, chest and tip of tail is the first clue, among many, that something else was in the breed. The si gene is usually responsible for patterned coloring, the sp gene would be responsible for the black and white spotting across the back, and the sw for the predominantly white color dogs. NONE of which the Yorkie possess.
Our Geneticist, said "The chances of such independent mutations bumping into each other are astronomical. A stray chunk of chromosome from a little cross-breeding wandering into the mix is much more probable".

The reason for the name Biewer Terrier is quite simple. Biewer, the man that originated the breed and Terrier, the type of dog we are breeding, thus Biewer Terrier.

We have updated our web site and have not got all the pictures back up. We back up what we say with documented facts. We don't add our own interpretation to the findings as some people do. Any one wanting to see the information proving the Biewer TERRIER a breed of their own may email me and I will provide them with the information.

As far as the parti goes, I can't help think that they are all the sudden looking like our Biewers. A few years back there were only a hand full of parti breeders, with dogs that look nothing like the Biewer. To bad AKC doesn't require DNA on ALL breeding dogs.
I am not saying that all the Parti breeders are mixing Biewers with their Parti's, please don't misunderstand me.

Anyone wanting to work toward the betterment of the breed may contact a BTCA, Inc. representative for more facts.

wow.. these are all great posts.. thank you...
i was wondering if there are any other akc recognized dog breeds which carry the piebald gene? like maltese?

I think it's very interesting to see how each established Biewer club and group of enthusiasts has their own opinions, theories, research, goals, motivations, experiences, etc regarding this breed and to see how those things differ and compare to one another.

They are certainly fabulous little dogs so it is not hard to see why so many people are in love with them.:luvu:

Recessive pie bald genes result in parti coloring for many breeds. There are parti poodles, schaunzers, chilhuahuas, and spaniels to name a few. I have no clue if any of those breed club standard includes the parti coloring. And like YTCA...there are some who highly discourage breeding any dog which exhibits this trait.

I've never heard of a parti-colored Maltese...no clue if they exist. Maybe you can create one? :p

Wow, what a interesting thread.

they do have the white hair.. is this a pie bald gene?
this subject is probably a thread killer.. sorry:animal-pa

to the o.p. :)

This is an age old subject that tends to get very heated and is very emotional for some yorkie owners. I also asked this question when i first joined and i was like WHOA what did i just ask??? lol :eek:

I read all the posts I could on the topic and drew my own conclusion :rolleyes: Thats really all you can do!

I went back to the very first yorkshire Terrier...read about him. Read about where the breed came from in the first place, and drew my conclusion from there. I dont think many genetics are on file from the very first mixture of dogs that made up the yorkie in the first place so to me seems hard to prove what came from what and what is in the to begin with :rolleyes: It is a very interesting topic when it doesnt get out of hand....Honestly as of today there is no for sure answer. There is speculation and some tests saying where they think it came from. Like someone said earlier these things can take decades.

Not a Maltese expert, but I would think not. Any and every dog that is white or has white on them somewhere is not neccessarily the result of the pie bald gene presenting itself.

I'm sure if the dog doesn't have any white hair....the Yorkie owners will after this debate....LOL...keep smiling:D :cool:

In the early 1900's there were parti colored maltese and solid colored ones. The first maltese born and registered in the US was white with black ears.

From what I've been told, the maltese is the extreme example of a spotting pattern ... basically just one big spot! Maltese do have mottling on their skin (parti's do as well) and are often born with lemon coloring on their ears and bodies.

Just trying to understand...
 

Recessive genes, mutations, and how variations work I understand so I don't need explanation on these.
From what I've read genetic testing has been done to prove that Biewers are there own breed of dog. Right?
And parti yorkies, and this is just a theory, could have resulted from a genetic mutation that resulted in the recessive lighter color gene. Or was the recessive gene always there? Did breeders just breed against this coloration favoring the dominant color we've all come to know?

I know that Cocker spaniels show parti coloreds.