Parti breeders do dock tails but Summit yorkies (where I've gotten 2 parti yorkies from) tend to dock a little longer than I like ... but heck, I don't plan to show them, so I'm not too worried :p

Gosh, I didn't realize they had even allowed them to be registered at long ago as that...I was thinking it was only within the past few years. Thanks for the clarification Sue.:)

I was not clear on my post I was referring to the parti gene not the dog itself.

Oh yes theree are show breeders that are afraid of being banned from showing because they had a parti pup. Having a parti pup show up in a litter of traditional colored parents is not unethical. But of course they are not going to tell people that are connected with the YTCA.

i think there have always been particolored yorkies.. check your pedigrees cuz mine have ancestors marked tri color:animal-pa

If the YTCA or the AKC started requiring all show dogs to be DNA'd, I'm afraid that there would be a lot of skeletons hiding in the closets. Wouldn't that be a hoot. Imagine all those red faces.

Remember, that the parti colored yorkies did come from Champion traditional colored yorkies. Where or when the gene got into the mix is really not important at this time. The FACT is that it came from traditional colored show winning yorkshire terriers. Did one ever consider that this might be the gene that helped the dog to become champion, regardles of where this gene came from.

I would love a copy of these pedigrees or the names of the dogs listed as tri colors. I've seen blue and tan with white on some pedigrees before. If you ever have a minute to share the names for my research, please PM me.

Thanks!

Well, you know that is where YOURS came from.
But who can say if that is the truth for every dog claimed to be a parti? I think the concern for many is that it isn't the case for many of the dogs that are being proclaimed as 'partis' that are out there.

Thank You. At the time I posted that, I was not aware that there are DNA testing labs that claim to be able to destinguish the different breeds.
No one, before Pinehaven, ever mentioned the testing labs or the results other than to say that it had been done and it "proved" that there is another mix in there.

Well it may have proved that the dogs that were tested had the mix in there, which I have said all along that there might be lines out there that do have something else mixed in, but it does not "prove" that original Biewer line had it mixed in. I don't think the testing can go back that many generations. I am currently researching that issue.

The parti line is not as old as the Biewer line, so tests done on these dogs might be more conclusive. But unless every line is tested, it still does not prove that the original parti colored yorkies had another breed in the mix.

I doubt that anything will ever be concluded to everyone's satisfaction in our lifetime. I would be totally thrilled to find out that there is another mix in the partis so that we did not fall under the YTCA's standards. But I suspect that the YTCA would not like to give up the control of whether or not these dogs can be shown.

The Biewers have a standard that was set by the Biewer originator. The partis do not have a standard set other than the YTCA's standardc for all yorkies. As for the tails, most breeders dock them right now, that might change once a club is established to set standards. I would guess that Standard yorkies coming over from the UK do not have their tails docked either. Good question.

Really? How far back is that? And what line did those parti colors originate from? It has only been within the last 10 years that AKC has even registered these parti colors.

I agree, that is what I have said repeatedly, that there are most likely lines out there that have other breeds mixed in. And the line that mine are from might have others mixed in also but it is most likely too far back to detect.

That is why I am all in favor of the testing.

That is true, but it has changed a bit over time. (Afterall, the Biewers originated the breed as being derived from pure Yorkie, and that's not being followed, right? According to one group, even the name itself is not the same as what the Biewers started out with. Now, at who's hand it changed, I cannot say. (And quite frankly, don't care.) But I *think* that there are established clubs that are not all following the exact same guidelines as one another as far as standard is concerned. So again, it comes down to who you ask.

I am pretty sure you are right. I have seen many on here post that they imported standard Yorkies that have intact tails.

Here is the response that I JUST received from a company that does the testing.

Jeanie,

Thanks for your interest in the DNA Breed Identification Test. The test is designed for the sole purpose of identifying the breeds found in the genetic composition of mixed breed dogs. It is not intended to verifiy if your dog is a purebred. Of course, if only one breed is identified, then the chances your dog is a purebred are pretty high. The results, which arrive in about two weeks after the lab receives your DNA sample, include an Ancestry Analysis and Breed Behavior, Health and Personality Summary. The Ancestry Analysis is uses levels rather than absolute values to determine the breeds. The levels are defined as follows:

Level 1: Over 75% of the DNA found in your dog is from the breed listed
Level 2: Each Breed listed represents between 37-74% of your dog's DNA.
Level 3: Each Breed listed represents between 20-36% of your dog's DNA.
Level 4: Each Breed listed represents between 10-19% of your dog's DNA.
Level 5: Each Breed listed represents less than 10% of your dog's DNA.

As far as generations go, DNA never goes away, so as long as it's there, the lab should be able to see it. The $59.95 does cover everything. That price covers the Kit, which includes the collection devices, a customer information card, detailed instructions and a postage-paid envelope to send your sample back to the lab, and it covers the analysis of your DNA and the results. We even offer free shipping, so the $59.95 is all you need to pay!

Thanks again for your interest in Breed Identification, if you have any other questions, please let us know.

Regards,

Mark Boyd
DNABreedID

[QUOTE=BamaFan121s;2209187]That is true, but it has changed a bit over time. (Afterall, the Biewers originated the breed as being derived from pure Yorkie, and that's not being followed, right? According to one group, even the name itself is not the same as what the Biewers started out with. Now, at who's hand it changed, I cannot say. (And quite frankly, don't care.) But I *think* that there are established clubs that are not all following the exact same guidelines as one another as far as standard is concerned. So again, it comes down to who you ask.

QUOTE]

Yes that is what I am coming up with also. There are so many Biewer clubs and registries out there, although only one (as fas as I know) is now claiming that they are not pure yorkie, and have changed the name.

I don't understand why they don't all belong to one club. I guessing that if someone does not like the rules of one club they just start their own. I guess they have the right to do that but it does remove a lot of the creditability of the breed.

Interesting on that particular DNA test.

I can tell you biewers were tested using the test developed by MARS.

The Wisdom Panelâ„¢ MX Mixed Breed Analysis test answers 'What's My Dog?'

Kathy785 had her biewer tested and one time posted the results...I don't remember any percentage given...it include yorkie, maltese, and an unknown marker. Interesting side note....not all the dogs tested had identical genetic markers.

I have been told the test itself identifies back thru 8 generations.

LOL that is not surprising. As I said I bet there would be a lot of hidden skeletons if these test would be made mandatory.

Do we know how many lines of yorkshire terriers were tested as a comparison to the Biewer tests? In other words, did the "pure" yorkshire terriers come back with only yorkshire terrier in their percentages?

I believe I had read somewhere (a few weeks ago) that the Mars test only had an 82% accuracy rate (it was an article about the test). I couldn't find that info on the site that you posted?

I believe you are correct Sue. As far as pure Yorkies being tested...I couldn't tell you. (Although technically, shouldn't that have been what was happening when the Biewers were tested, if in fact the breeds history is that the derived from pure, standard Yorkies?)

Yes, that's what I'm thinking, that Mars testing the pure yorkie would be the controlled group to compare the Biewer test results to. Did it happen that way though, that's the question?

I couldn't tell ya. The whole subject of Biewers in general is usually met with such hostility everytime it's brought up that alot of people just run in fear. LOL. Lots of people interested to learn more, but few who will pursue it at the cost of being met with insults and not so friendly discussion

Disclaimer ..... I haven't been involved in any mars testing. LOL. The information I know....I've read. ;)

Yes, the test is only 84% accurate and not accurate when testing purebreed dogs. According to the website in order to test purebreed dogs...they would have to test EVERY line out there in a particular breed.

They have genetic markers from 130 akc recognized breeds. It's those markers they are looking for when examing a particular dog.

Here's a FAQ page from the website...

Frequently Asked Questions about Mars Veterinary

A dvd is supposed to become available explaining the genetics and the biewers involved in the testing. I haven't heard if that's happened yet or not.

Originally Posted by Pinehaven
Yes, that's what I'm thinking, that Mars testing the pure yorkie would be the controlled group to compare the Biewer test results to. Did it happen that way though, that's the question?


That's probably what they should have done. Then compare the results to see how many differences are found. I think that's the only way to know for sure if they are the same breed or not.

Well they claim to have the results of most of the breeds on file, and when they test for breeds they compare the DNA markers to those that they have on file.

Here is a link to the accuracy rating.

Thoughts on Paws : Mixed breed DNA test says Cassie's a basboxollie

That same 84% accuracy is also stated in an article on TheDogChannel.com

There isn't a "control group" so to speak. They took samples from so many breeds...and used those to determine the genetic markers. This isn't the dna that determines parentage...there are specific markers for the breed itself. Like a boxer's genetic markers are different from a yorkie's genetic markers.

Quick question for clarification...

Are the genes for coat color used in determining the breeds with the MARS testing? If yes, then do they include the gene for tri/parti within the genes for yorkies? If not wouldn't that make it impossible to tell if biewers or tris are full yorkie or not? The reason I ask is because if all blue/tan yorkies were used to establish the database for the yorkie then when the "parti gene" was present wouldn't that lead the results into the belief that there had to be another breed to account for the color?

I personally do not care if "partis" are full yorkie or something was mixed in, it makes no difference to me since I will not be using any in my breeding program. If I had one pop up in a litter, just like any incorrectly colored yorkie it would be spayed/neutered before leaving to a pet home.

I haven't read anywhere that specifically stated what genetic markers were used to determine the individual breeds. The website only says they have analyzed 19,000 markers from 13,000 dogs.

You can send any incorrectly colored puppy to me. :D

SO TRUE!!!!!!!!!!! When Digs was a puppy he had a TON of white on him (more than the normal chin, feet marks) his whole chest his belly and insides of legs as well as chest and chin. So I of course post pics asking....Why is he so white?? I have 4 yorkies in my immediate family all from same breeder same parents and NO white dogs on her premisis. Bella, Ada, and Zoe have NO white and then comes my lil Diggy boy, all white and cute so of course i was curious as to why he was so white. I posted pics and GOOD LORD you would have thought I shot the president!!!! I got emails saying neuter him immediately he is nothing short of a mutant dog....wth????? It was NASTY I was pretty new so I kept my mouth shut scared to say a word watching people battle it out on the topic. Diggy is infact neutered and NOT because he is a mutant but because I love him, and will leave the breeding to those who know what they are doing because I certainly DO NOT.

As for why Diggy is so white. I still dont know and frankly don't care. I am curious but will it change anything NO.

I am very proud of my mutant colored, hybrid, splitter, carrier, or whatever else he may be. To me he is Diggy :)

and you are exactly right Bama I am curious to learn but i think the hostility is too much for me to read I get mad....and upset. Isnt worth it.

You have a good point there. I don't think it looks for those type of genes. And they are indicating that different lines of the same breed contain different markers, so I'm not sure that this testing is really proving what we want to know about the partis and the Biewers.

Also it is only 84% accurate for the first generation and the accuracy rate declines from there.

Totally off topic but it must be said.
Your Diggy looks so cute sleeping!!! He's just adorable.