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-   General Yorkshire Terrier Discussion (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/)
-   -   Do you approve of different colored yorkies? (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-yorkshire-terrier-discussion/131368-do-you-approve-different-colored-yorkies.html)

JeanieK 08-19-2008 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinehaven (Post 2190356)
Actually, I've said that the Maltese could be one place where the white has come from ... a maltese is the extreme white spotting pattern - they are basically one big spot! At one point, there were spotted and colored maltese, the first american born Maltese was white with black ears (if I recall correctly).
Sue, I'm sorry that I misunderstood you on that one. Thank you for correcting that.

JeanieK 08-19-2008 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2190359)
That's just it; they are being "marketed" as something unique, the YTCA forbids use of those words. I object to anyone breeding as a business, it should only be done to improve the breed, of you are interested in the profit factor of it, you will not be looking out for the long term affects on the breed. Many of us love the Yorkie just as it as, and want to preserve those qualities.
It has been pointed out many times, those of us who breed the off coloreds are "ruining" the breed.

It is not taken into consideration that we are breeding to be able to set some predictable standards and establish a breed club. We are simply labled as BYB's that don't care about the breed and are just in it for the money. Which is not true of the parti breeders that I have been in contact with.

BamaFan121s 08-19-2008 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2190317)
The "Tinies" "Teacups' "Micro minies" etc, many with health issues, are also marketed at exhorbitant prices, (I've see them for $10,000) and they fit the standard.
Well I don't agree with people marketing dogs as teacups or trying to achieve extremely small dogs either! Expecially when they are charging outrageous prices. I cannot for the life of me believe that someone who does those two things, particularly in combination of one another, is doing so for any reason other than to make money. I think once one's vision is clouded by that, the health and well being of the dogs is no longer the primary focus and concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2190317)
I'm never sure what the issues is on the prices. Is it the high price that people object to or the color? And why would anyone care what price someone else charges?
If someone can prove to me that the higher price is due to increased medical testing or genetic research or importing dogs or to cover show expenses or an emergency c-section--something of that nature, I can understand that. But when someone has outrageous prices just because they can pull in a higher dollar amount because they are producing something 'rare' or 'trendy', then I don't believe their goals are where they should be.

BamaFan121s 08-19-2008 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2190384)
It has been pointed out many times, those of us who breed the off coloreds are "ruining" the breed.

It is not taken into consideration that we are breeding to be able to set some predictable standards and establish a breed club. We are simply labled as BYB's that don't care about the breed and are just in it for the money. Which is not true of the parti breeders that I have been in contact with.
Nancy said nothing about you gals 'ruining the breed' in her post that you quoted. :confused:

She was stating her concern regarding those just looking to turn a quick profit. Maybe that is not the case with you and the breeders YOU correspond with (and I don't think it is), but it certainly does exist. I personally think that one of the issues for me comes when people claim they are 'working to set a standard' but then can't give accurate, detailed, of how and are not coordinating their efforts with others who claim to be doing the same.
(Again, that doesn't mean you all, just in general.)

Given the current popularity of Yorkies in general, I have the same concerns for those who breed standard colors as well.

JeanieK 08-19-2008 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2190386)
Well I don't agree with people marketing dogs as teacups or trying to achieve extremely small dogs either! Expecially when they are charging outrageous prices. I cannot for the life of me believe that someone who does those two things, particularly in combination of one another, is doing so for any reason other than to make money. I think once one's vision is clouded by that, the health and well being of the dogs is no longer the primary focus and concern.



If someone can prove to me that the higher price is due to increased medical testing or genetic research or importing dogs or to cover show expenses or an emergency c-section--something of that nature, I can understand that. But when someone has outrageous prices just because they can pull in a higher dollar amount because they are producing something 'rare' or 'trendy', then I don't believe their goals are where they should be.

How about the cost of procurring the original yorkies. I'm just not understanding your concerns.

I bought my original dogs. I breed them. I cannot keep them all. The original healthy dogs that I bought are producing the babies, so how does, what I charge for the puppies, make my parent dogs lessor quality, or change my goals? I am still using the same dogs, and my goal is still the same, and the money that I make changes nothing.

I still take care of my dogs, I am still interested in their health and welfare, they are first and foremost my pets.

BamaFan121s 08-19-2008 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2190406)
How about the cost of procurring the original yorkies. I'm just not understanding your concerns.
I guess any costs to the breeder, not just those few I mentioned. Charging in an effort to cover your costs should go without saying, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2190406)
how does, what I charge for the puppies, make my parent dogs lessor quality, or change my goals?
Huh? Where did that come from? I don't see where that statement was made...:confused: I think maybe we are misunderstanding each other somehow, because I am totally lost here.

Nancy1999 08-19-2008 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2190384)
It has been pointed out many times, those of us who breed the off coloreds are "ruining" the breed.

It is not taken into consideration that we are breeding to be able to set some predictable standards and establish a breed club. We are simply labled as BYB's that don't care about the breed and are just in it for the money. Which is not true of the parti breeders that I have been in contact with.
You asked this question:
Quote:
The "Tinies" "Teacups' "Micro minies" etc, many with health issues, are also marketed at exhorbitant prices, (I've see them for $10,000) and they fit the standard. I'm never sure what the issues is on the prices. Is it the high price that people object to or the color? And why would anyone care what price someone else charges?
I was merely trying to answer it. I'm sure not all Parti, and Biewer breeders are created equally. I don't tend to throw everyone into the same class. I can imagine someone truly loving that look and breeding it because of that reason, and not to turn a profit. However, they are probably the exception rather than the rule.

JeanieK 08-19-2008 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2190393)
Nancy said nothing about you gals 'ruining the breed' in her post that you quoted. :confused:

She was stating her concern regarding those just looking to turn a quick profit. Maybe that is not the case with you and the breeders YOU correspond with (and I don't think it is), but it certainly does exist. I personally think that one of the issues for me comes when people claim they are 'working to set a standard' but then can't give accurate, detailed, of how and are not coordinating their efforts with others who claim to be doing the same.
(Again, that doesn't mean you all, just in general.)

Given the current popularity of Yorkies in general, I have the same concerns for those who breed standard colors as well.

I know that Nancy never said we were "ruining" the breed. What I was getting at is that regardless of the price we charge, or if we give the puppies away, many will claim that we are not concerned for the breed.

I am not at liberty to say who all is involved in the effort, or what point we are, but there are things in the works to establishing standards. We are not just breeding willy nilly. We do have goals.

JeanieK 08-19-2008 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2190430)



Huh? Where did that come from? I don't see where that statement was made...:confused: I think maybe we are misunderstanding each other somehow, because I am totally lost here.
Posters always link the price that is being charged with indiscriminate breeding, and breeding only for "the money", and I don't see where one has anything to do with the other. In fact most large puppy mills sell to pet stores for low prices. they believe in quantity rather than quality.

JeanieK 08-19-2008 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 2190443)
You asked this question:


I was merely trying to answer it. I'm sure not all Parti, and Biewer breeders are created equally. I don't tend to throw everyone into the same class. I can imagine someone truly loving that look and breeding it because of that reason, and not to turn a profit. However, they are probably the exception rather than the rule.
You are probabgly right, but we cannot control that any more than we can control the mass production of low quality puppies coming from the puppy mills.

It appears to me, that although we are still not all in agreement on this issue, we are moving closer to an understanding of it. However there are still many out there that still refuse to believe that these are not a mixed breed.

BamaFan121s 08-19-2008 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2190517)
Posters always link the price that is being charged with indiscriminate breeding, and breeding only for "the money", and I don't see where one has anything to do with the other.
I don't think it's always the case, as I stated, I believe there are exceptions and definately people who fall victim to that unfortunate circumstance.

What then would be some possible reasons behind someone marketing a parti as 'rare' and charging astronomical prices for one? (Let's say, $5,000 or more)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2190528)
However there are still many out there that still refuse to believe that these are not a mixed breed.
I don't think that is always the case either, but I believe often times it is. Or it is at least enough to raise suspicion. If a person is a breeder of Yorkie and Maltese and they are selling Partis too...would you not be somewhat suspicious? Or if everyone's favorite TX miller had partis for sale, would you not question it?

JeanieK 08-19-2008 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaFan121s (Post 2190540)
I don't think it's always the case, as I stated, I believe there are exceptions and definately people who fall victim to that unfortunate circumstance.

What then would be some possible reasons behind someone marketing a parti as 'rare' and charging astronomical prices for one? (Let's say, $5,000 or more)
The possible reason for "that" would be to sell at market value, but that does not mean the the main goal is money.

Quote:
I don't think that is always the case either, but I believe often times it is. Or it is at least enough to raise suspicion. If a person is a breeder of Yorkie and Maltese and they are selling Partis too...would you not be somewhat suspicious? Or if everyone's favorite TX miller had partis for sale, would you not question it?
Yes of course I would and DO question that. But you know those of us on YT that breed partis, yet we are still lumped into the same category as BYB and puppy mills.

BamaFan121s 08-19-2008 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2190606)
The possible reason for "that" would be to sell at market value, but that does not mean the the main goal is money.
True, but it doesn't mean that it isn't the main goal either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2190606)
Yes of course I would and DO question that. But you know those of us on YT that breed partis, yet we are still lumped into the same category as BYB and puppy mills.
And I don't think that is fair either. I wouldn't like being put in that category as a BYB either if I were you. (I don't like being pulled over all the time because I drive a sports car.) I don't think anyone is trying to discredit anyone who goes about things the way you and a few of the others here do, it's those that DO fit that category that worry people and raise concern.

Nancy1999 08-19-2008 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2190528)
You are probabgly right, but we cannot control that any more than we can control the mass production of low quality puppies coming from the puppy mills.

It appears to me, that although we are still not all in agreement on this issue, we are moving closer to an understanding of it. However there are still many out there that still refuse to believe that these are not a mixed breed.

Many people got into the breeding of Yorkies due to their popularity, and not because of any special fondness for the breed. I object to this as well, I can't do anything about it, but this thread question of "Do you approve . . .", seeks people to state their opinions. I'm sure you've read of breeders on this forum, who are new to Yorkies, and can't sell their offspring for much because their breeding stock is so poor, but decide a Parti is just what their "line" needs. Personally if I were a Parti breeder and chose to breed them because I really loved the look, I would really be suspicious of other breeders who decided to breed them, and would hope that their motivations were the same as mine.

yorkiekist 08-19-2008 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 2190274)
Well I suppose you could try, but since there is already a club established for that color it doesnt make sense for you to do that.

As sue "pinehaven" has pointed out many times, the white does not come from the maltese because the maltese does not carry the spotting gene. I believe they mixed in the maltese to get the silky coat.

At one time the maltese and the yorkshire Terrier were both shown in the same group as broken haired scottish terriers. So it stands to reason that they would have bred them together.

There is a picture of Scotch Terriers by Edwin Landseer Titled "Ratcatchers" It cleasrly shows one Terrier wite with a black spot on the back.

I could only find a thumbnail of this painting. I enlarged it but the quality is poor.


Attachment 237809
Duh!! Thats an analogy. Do you think that if I purposely bred "off colored "Biewers that I would be welcomed with open arms by the Biewer club members and breeders passionate about them? The same is so for the YTCA and breeders passionate about the Yorkie. There is already a set standard for the Yorkie. Its been around since the 1800's. Some small changes have been made over the years but color has always remained the same. Partis have never been included. Do you think the standard should be changed just because a pink Yorkie can be bred or because indiscriminate breeders can produce dogs so far from the standard? I have my own opinions about where the "off colores" came from. To bad there was no DNA or kennel inspections back then. And I do believe Sue wrote that the parti gene came from the Maltese amoung others.


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