byb question

[celstu1]

After reading for so long on here, I am wondering what you guys think about the breeder I got my dogs from. Here are the details that I have from her,her house, her pups, her dogs, etc... is this a byb? I often tell people that if they want a yorkie I could get her name and number for them to call, but now Im wondering if its safe. I think it is, but Id like you guys opinion.

She put an ad in the paper to sell the pup when they were 6 weeks old but wouldn't let them go until they were 9 weeks old.

When I got there, her house was kind of gross and she smoked inside and so did her hubby, however all her dogs were out and running around, they needed grooming but were pretty clean, friendly, looked healthy and alert and had total run of the house, she had about 12 adult yorkies.

The pups were kept in a babys playpen in a room with a wood stove going full blast, her and her husband held the pups a lot to aclimate them with people. They had recliner chairs in that room so they could sit there and hold the pups. The pups had a bed and blankets in the playpen that were clean.

The pups came with a puppy kit and akc papers and first round of shots, however I had to akc register them if I wanted to, is that normal? I did not do that since it did not really matter to me if they were 'registered' or not, as long as they were purebred.

The parents of my pups were on site and I met the dad but the mom was in hiding and wouldn't come out and the breeder did not want to force her out.

The woman said she has been doing this for 25 years.

The biggest thing that bothered me was, I got my boys and they had health certs from her vet stating they were both healthy and had their first round of shots, however, 3 weeks later when they went to MY vet for their second round and a checkup, my little guy had a heart murmur. My vet was not overly concerned and eventually it closed up and he is healthy and fine now, but shouldn't HER vet have stated that in the health certs?

Any other details you would need to know?

Thanks!!!

[chachi]

Does she breed to the standard.? The time she lets the pups go is a little young. I also dont think good breeder should smoke around their dogs. I used to smoke and I always went outside. She could be a hobby breeder or a byb. My breeder was a byb. She sold her pups very young and had multiple breeds. She also didnt breed to the standard

[chachi]

Originally Posted by chachi

Does she breed to the standard.? The time she lets the pups go is a little young. I also dont think good breeder should smoke around their dogs. I used to smoke and I always went outside. She could be a hobby breeder or a byb. My breeder was a byb. She sold her pups very young and had multiple breeds. She also didnt breed to the standard

Also did you get a health guarantee. I only got a 72 hr one. I think a good breeder should at least give you one for a year

[MyFairLacy]

What health screening did she do on her adult dogs before breeding? How does she evaluate her adult dogs to know if they conform to the standard or not? Letting them go at 9 weeks is a big concern of mine as the breeders I consider reputable don't let them go until a minimum of 12 weeks.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by chachi

Also did you get a health guarantee. I only got a 72 hr one. I think a good breeder should at least give you one for a year

hey, I've got you beat...Lacy came with a 48 hour guarantee! LOL I wouldn't recommend where she came from though

[chachi]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

hey, I've got you beat...Lacy came with a 48 hour guarantee! LOL I wouldn't recommend where she came from though

Crazy isnt it. Like you could really have time to discover if anything was seriously wrong with your dog in 48 or 72 hrs

[celstu1]

I don't think my boys came with a guarantee at all, I think the woman had told me to call her if I ever had any problems with them health wise but nothing on paper, at least not as far as I can remember. hhhmmm

I do not think she bred to standard. Her dogs all looked standard, but its hard to tell on looks alone whether they were actually standard. Maybe she was a hobby breeder? She seemed to only have 1 liter at a time and no other breeds, just yorkies. Her dogs were $750 for males and $800 for females. I do not believe she put restrictions on breeding her female puppies though either.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by chachi

Crazy isnt it. Like you could really have time to discover if anything was seriously wrong with your dog in 48 or 72 hrs

I discovered she had tapeworms in that time...yuck. Other than that and her current Luxating Patellas, she is healthy. I feel very fortunate for that. I know of a breeder that offers a 3 year guarantee..I think that is great!

[celstu1]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

I discovered she had tapeworms in that time...yuck. Other than that and her current Luxating Patellas, she is healthy. I feel very fortunate for that. I know of a breeder that offers a 3 year guarantee..I think that is great!

I feel REALLY lucky too! My boys have nothing wrong with them health wise at all! I can't believe how uninformed I was and how much more knowledgable I am now!

[chachi]

Originally Posted by celstu1

I don't think my boys came with a guarantee at all, I think the woman had told me to call her if I ever had any problems with them health wise but nothing on paper, at least not as far as I can remember. hhhmmm

I do not think she bred to standard. Her dogs all looked standard, but its hard to tell on looks alone whether they were actually standard. Maybe she was a hobby breeder? She seemed to only have 1 liter at a time and no other breeds, just yorkies. Her dogs were $750 for males and $800 for females. I do not believe she put restrictions on breeding her female puppies though either.

Mine didnt have any restrictions on breeding the females either but should have because her dogs were pet quality. Also her breeding males were over the standard. I love my dogs but I would never go back to that breeder

[ARCHIE]

Buddy came with 1 free vet visit with all testing encluded. (stool, blood, exam)
The vet was actually my girlfriends for years so I know he was a good
one and not just any vet.
Buddy came from a brooker who ran a pet store. I realized that later.
Lucky for both of us he was fine.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by celstu1

I don't think my boys came with a guarantee at all, I think the woman had told me to call her if I ever had any problems with them health wise but nothing on paper, at least not as far as I can remember. hhhmmm

I do not think she bred to standard. Her dogs all looked standard, but its hard to tell on looks alone whether they were actually standard. Maybe she was a hobby breeder? She seemed to only have 1 liter at a time and no other breeds, just yorkies. Her dogs were $750 for males and $800 for females. I do not believe she put restrictions on breeding her female puppies though either.

Honestly, they sound like backyard breeders in my opinion. But it does sound like they were in it as a hobby and not a money-making thing. I'm sure they care about and love their dogs and just don't know any better so far as breeding them goes. Just because a breeder is a backyard breeder doesn't necessarily mean they are bad people or don't love and care for their dogs. They just arent the type of breeder I would buy from or recommend from now on. Doesn't mean anything so far as your baby goes...mine came from a BYB...and I love her to death and wouldn't trade her for the #1 yorkie in the world! I just know that any dog I purchase from now on will come from a breeder that meets my criteria for a reputable breeder.

[celstu1]

Originally Posted by MyFairLacy

Honestly, they sound like backyard breeders in my opinion. But it does sound like they were in it as a hobby and not a money-making thing. I'm sure they care about and love their dogs and just don't know any better so far as breeding them goes. Just because a breeder is a backyard breeder doesn't necessarily mean they are bad people or don't love and care for their dogs. They just arent the type of breeder I would buy from or recommend from now on. Doesn't mean anything so far as your baby goes...mine came from a BYB...and I love her to death and wouldn't trade her for the #1 yorkie in the world! I just know that any dog I purchase from now on will come from a breeder that meets my criteria for a reputable breeder.

Yeah, I kind of agree with you, thats the thing. Had I known more then... *SIGH* but I guess thats why we find places like YT and learn so we don't make the same mistakes twice right? I hate to have the breed overbred and end up with so many sick babies and diseases, etc... Its heartbreaking!

[Nancy1999]

In a word yes, that's what I would call a byb. I feel most uncomfortable with the fact that she lets the puppies go at such a young age. According to YTCA minimum is 12 weeks, when a breeder breaks this rules it's a red flag other rules are broken as well such as health testing. That said, I realize that many people get their dogs from places such as this, but I encourage people to get the puppies from members of the YTCA, if possible, because I believe they are trying their best to improve the breed. I think many back-yard-breeders sell them earlier than recommended because certain health tests can't be done before the age of 12 weeks. I also encourage people to register their dog; because this is how the AKC keeps track of how many litters a dog has each year. You would be surprised how many people have tried to register and found out the puppies weren't eligible. It's less than $20.00 and helps keep breeders honest, as well as funding the AKC to help with inspection costs.

I believe getting the dog through someone like this is much better than a pet store or website, but if you can afford it I always recommend trying to find the most ethical breeder possible and many are much more affordable than a pet store.

Your babies are beautiful, and I 'm so glad they don't have any serious health problems, but I lost a precious pet because of poor breeding practices and a genetic disease, and I feel very strongly about only rewarding the best breeders with our business.

[MyFairLacy]

Originally Posted by celstu1

Yeah, I kind of agree with you, thats the thing. Had I known more then... *SIGH* but I guess thats why we find places like YT and learn so we don't make the same mistakes twice right? I hate to have the breed overbred and end up with so many sick babies and diseases, etc... Its heartbreaking!

Yeah, it's nothing to feel bad about. You can't help what you don't know. It's once you've learned that you have the opportunity to do something about it...educate others and buy from reputable breeders from now on. Lacy was a gift, and at the time I knew what puppymills were and I knew what show breeders were, but I didn't full grasp the whole backyard breeder concept. I would have loved to have had one from a show breeder, but I figured they were all really expensive...and they probably would have been to my friend buying me my puppy. She found Lacy out of the classifieds and she was inexpensive for a yorkie. I didn't realize how important it is to breed for health, standard, and temperment until a couple years ago. I joined forums, I read, I learned. I realized how common healh issues are and that many could be prevented if breeders would screen their dogs and breed carefully. I've learned so much in the past few years. I'm fortunate I have Lacy and wouldn't trade her for anything...she's my baby and I love her more than anything..she's my world. But I do know what I want in a breeder and in a puppy next time I'm looking.