Is An 8 Week Puppy Too Young?

[gutu28]

Originally Posted by ckuz13

I have tried getting one from the YTCA last year..but the breeder could not find one in my price range..if she did it had some sort of genetic issue like hernia or overbite, one was missing her leg!!! These pups were still in the $1300 dollar range..Are all hobby breeders backyard breeders..Can some of them produce quality pups.. I bought a pug from a hobby breeder 14 years ago and he was so healthy and beutiful. Was this just luck? Some breeders make it sometimes impossible to meet all of their reguierments such as not selling to a home with children. I have two boys, age 14 and 5. They were raised around animals are so gentle and responsible and yet even with my animal experience they will not trust letting one of their pups go to our home. I have worked in an animal hospital, I know what unsupervised children can do. But with that note.. I have also seen some of the same accidents happen from senior citizens or retirees with no children. So sometimes it leaves someone like me, a woman with a family, to have to purchase from a hobby breeder and hope all goes well. Is this wrong? Ps.. I don't support puppy mills, petstores, or greedy byb.. That is why I asked the original question. I do notice red flags when I see them and I see them A lot..

It depends on who you ask. There are some that are very strict on their description of a "reputable breeder." Personally, I do not put hobby breeders and BYB's in the same group. To me, hobby breeders are those that breed to standard, but do not show their dogs and BYB's are puppymills on a smaller scale. Some might disagree but I don't think that if you don't show your dogs, you are a puppymill. That seems like a bit of a stretch to me. Does this breeder have a website? Have you asked if she would keep the puppy for a couple more weeks?

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

So, if I'm reading this right, one would be labeled an irresponsible breeder if they release a puppy before 12 weeks but would not if they feed their dogs junk? I just don't don't follow this logic. Chronic kidney disease is the #1 cause of death in dogs (all breeds) and poor quality food is the main contributor to this. Ever hear the expression "you are what you eat"?

I have a feeling that table scraps are much more the cause of this than poor quality food. Not that I think that good quality isn't important, of course..

[ckuz13]

No, I have not asked her yet. She does not have that focus on money that I seem to run across on my search. One lady asked me how much was I looking to spend. She said she does not sell her yorkies for less than $3000 and hung up on me.. I do not think 1300 is too cheap. I don't believe she is a backyard breeder. She seems to really love her dogs. She only has three females and she is setting up a viewing next week. She will definately sell them.. This is a retirement community and yorkies are the dog to have around here. I will find out from the local vet all the details If I feel butterflies about the contract.. but the parents are so cute..they have a really delicate teddy bear face and she said the puppies have a thick coat and teddybear features as well. I am Thinking only positive thoughts.. oh no website, She has been breeding 3-5 yrs and I will be getting a call from her next week..

[MIZBROWN]

Originally Posted by ckuz13

No, I have not asked her yet. She does not have that focus on money that I seem to run across on my search. One lady asked me how much was I looking to spend. She said she does not sell her yorkies for less than $3000 and hung up on me.. I do not think 1300 is too cheap. I don't believe she is a backyard breeder. She seems to really love her dogs. She only has three females and she is setting up a viewing next week. She will definately sell them.. This is a retirement community and yorkies are the dog to have around here. I will find out from the local vet all the details If I feel butterflies about the contract.. but the parents are so cute..they have a really delicate teddy bear face and she said the puppies have a thick coat and teddybear features as well. I am Thinking only positive thoughts..

And you should be thinking positive Your getting a Yorkie Do whats best for you... Take the things that you've learned/read and apply it to best fit your situation. If you feel that this lady is trustworthy, then go with your gut... you can tell from a persons character, what their true intentions are... You will know

Just be sure to ask her all the needed questions and do the research on her if any can be done... imo

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by Woogie Man

So, if I'm reading this right, one would be labeled an irresponsible breeder if they release a puppy before 12 weeks but would not if they feed their dogs junk? I just don't don't follow this logic. Chronic kidney disease is the #1 cause of death in dogs (all breeds) and poor quality food is the main contributor to this. Ever hear the expression "you are what you eat"? For the very organizations we look to for guidance in the welfare of our dogs to promote junk food reeks of hypocrisy. They dilute their authority and tarnish the trust placed in them by these actions. JMO

Many would argue that Purina is not junk and indeed has some premium foods, for example their lamb and rice formula. There is much debate even among the "experts" upon the "best" diet. Trying to discredit YTCA for this seems irresponsible to me. Here is a quote from their website:

**PURINA PARTNERSHIP PROGRAM**
.
Yorkshire Terrier owners have earned for the YTCA a total of $4,296.46. One half will go to the Donor advised fund at CHF and the other half will go to YTCA. If you feed Purina (dry kibble only no canned food products) please go to www.Purina.com and declare yourself a Yorkie owner with Purina and send in your Purina circles to benefit your breed.
.
You do not have to be a YTCA member you just have to own a Yorkie and feed a Purina dry kibble dog food to benefit the breed through this program.
.

Forty-three hundred dollars. Wow, after they pay for all the surgeries that rescues need, maybe they can all take a trip to the Caribbean!

Originally Posted by ckuz13

I have tried getting one from the YTCA last year..but the breeder could not find one in my price range..if she did it had some sort of genetic issue like hernia or overbite, one was missing her leg!!! These pups were still in the $1300 dollar range..Are all hobby breeders backyard breeders..Can some of them produce quality pups.. I bought a pug from a hobby breeder 14 years ago and he was so healthy and beutiful. Was this just luck? Some breeders make it sometimes impossible to meet all of their reguierments such as not selling to a home with children. I have two boys, age 14 and 5. They were raised around animals are so gentle and responsible and yet even with my animal experience they will not trust letting one of their pups go to our home. I have worked in an animal hospital, I know what unsupervised children can do. But with that note.. I have also seen some of the same accidents happen from senior citizens or retirees with no children. So sometimes it leaves someone like me, a woman with a family, to have to purchase from a hobby breeder and hope all goes well. Is this wrong? Ps.. I don't support puppy mills, petstores, or greedy byb.. That is why I asked the original question. I do notice red flags when I see them and I see them A lot..

From what I hear you saying is that there are two problems, one the YTCA breeders want more money then you can pay and two they don't want to sell to families with children.

I usually look for the best deal I can on everything, but buying from a quality breeder is the best deal. You may have to pay a few extra dollars up front, but it saves so much in the long run. It's ironic because they really aren't making the profit that the BYB are. So much goes into their puppies. One small thing like getting a silky coat over a cotton coat can save hours in grooming time for you, and a good breeder will teach you how to groom, which will save you money. The big thing of course, is the health screening they do. We purchased a purebred from a BYB years ago, and I can't tell you the heartache we suffered watching our little guy deteriorate, and the vet was able to do nothing for him. I had small children at the time, so it was doubly painful.

As far as small children, I think it might be best for you to develop a relationship with one of the breeders or several. Many breeders are very suspicious because people often want to buy their prize puppies and start breeding them. They are required to find good homes for their dogs. Once you develop a relationship, and the breeder is able to meet your children, it might alleviate her fears.

[TeddyandTiffy]

Originally Posted by ckuz13

I found a breeder who is on the Akc webpage who has puppies available soon. I believe she is releasing them at 8 weeks. I have read in a lot of breeder books this is a no-no. Especially since yorkies are soo small. I want to purchase her pup but I would rather take her home at 11 or 12 weeks. How do I get around this? Thanks..

You are very very smart to want to wait!! Good 4 U! We got Teddy when he was 6 Weeks old & Tiffanie at 7 Weeks old and it was hard on them & Me. I worried so much over them. They need to be with their mother longer. I allow all my puppies to leave home after 12 weeks and they must have their 2nd shots. My Vet told me not to let them leave our home till after their 2nd shots due to Parvo. I would just explain to her that U perfer to wait till the puppy is around 12 weeks old, tell her the whys. She shouldn't mind waiting, I know I didn't mind one bit keeping them longer. Hugs & Good luck on U're baby.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by ckuz13

No, I have not asked her yet. She does not have that focus on money that I seem to run across on my search. One lady asked me how much was I looking to spend. She said she does not sell her yorkies for less than $3000 and hung up on me.. I do not think 1300 is too cheap. I don't believe she is a backyard breeder. She seems to really love her dogs. She only has three females and she is setting up a viewing next week. She will definately sell them.. This is a retirement community and yorkies are the dog to have around here. I will find out from the local vet all the details If I feel butterflies about the contract.. but the parents are so cute..they have a really delicate teddy bear face and she said the puppies have a thick coat and teddybear features as well. I am Thinking only positive thoughts.. oh no website, She has been breeding 3-5 yrs and I will be getting a call from her next week..

Do make sure to ask her what health testing she has done on the dogs she breeds. Yorkies are thirty-six times more likely to be born with a liver shunt than all other breeds combined so it is essential that all her dogs have had bile acids tests prior to breeding. Dr. Center, one of if not the leading authority on liver disease in the country, recommends that all Yorkie puppies have a bile acids test before going to their new home, too.

Also ask her if the parent's knees have been xrayed and cleared by her vet for luxating patellas. They are also very common in Yorkies (The Orthopedic Foundation of America ranks Yorkies #4 with this condition).

Ask to see proof that both these tests have been done. Don't take her word for it. A lot of breeders will try to convince you that their dogs have had health testing, but all they mean is that they get yearly physicals and vaccinations.

Both liver shunts and luxating patellas cost thousands of dollars to surgically correct. It is important not to fall for a cute Yorkie face and a nice breeder without doing your homework first. It's generally a good idea to screen the breeders over the phone or by email before seeing the puppies. It is very hard to be objective when surrounded by darling little puppies.

[ckuz13]

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Many would argue that Purina is not junk and indeed has some premium foods, for example their lamb and rice formula. There is much debate even among the "experts" upon the "best" diet. Trying to discredit YTCA for this seems irresponsible to me. Here is a quote from their website:

**PURINA PARTNERSHIP PROGRAM**
.
Yorkshire Terrier owners have earned for the YTCA a total of $4,296.46. One half will go to the Donor advised fund at CHF and the other half will go to YTCA. If you feed Purina (dry kibble only no canned food products) please go to www.Purina.com and declare yourself a Yorkie owner with Purina and send in your Purina circles to benefit your breed.
.
You do not have to be a YTCA member you just have to own a Yorkie and feed a Purina dry kibble dog food to benefit the breed through this program.
.

Forty-three hundred dollars. Wow, after they pay for all the surgeries that rescues need, maybe they can all take a trip to the Caribbean!




From what I hear you saying is that there are two problems, one the YTCA breeders want more money then you can pay and two they don't want to sell to families with children.

I usually look for the best deal I can on everything, but buying from a quality breeder is the best deal. You may have to pay a few extra dollars up front, but it saves so much in the long run. It's ironic because they really aren't making the profit that the BYB are. So much goes into their puppies. One small thing like getting a silky coat over a cotton coat can save hours in grooming time for you, and a good breeder will teach you how to groom, which will save you money. The big thing of course, is the health screening they do. We purchased a purebred from a BYB years ago, and I can't tell you the heartache we suffered watching our little guy deteriorate, and the vet was able to do nothing for him. I had small children at the time, so it was doubly painful.

As far as small children, I think it might be best for you to develop a relationship with one of the breeders or several. Many breeders are very suspicious because people often want to buy their prize puppies and start breeding them. They are required to find good homes for their dogs. Once you develop a relationship, and the breeder is able to meet your children, it might alleviate her fears.

Thanks.. Money for me is not the issue.. I believe in the whole you get what you pay for thing..I know our pets are priceless.. But this is the breed of choice for me..not my husbands or my older son. I would not pay 3000 for an english bulldog cause that is not my fantasy dog. We all have our personal preference. When I explain these things to my husband, like good breeding, health problems that yorkies can have, grooming etc..it turns him off. He loves animals and would rather rescue from a shelter. I can't believe he paid $200 for a football pressure suit for my son, but that was important to him. So although we can afford to purchase a yorkie for much higher it is still a debate in our household. Things can always go wrong, even with a perfectly healthy dog. I have been searching for 2 years for the right breeder and the right price.. My family thinks I am being too picky..It is like fine china you want the perfect set but never use it cause it cost too much to ruin..so you keep it in a place where it will not be damaged. I don't wan't to overprotect my furbaby..is this why some books say not to cuz it causes yorkies to become neurotic? just rambling..thanks for all the info..

[Woogie Man]

[QUOTE=Nancy1999;1876094]Many would argue that Purina is not junk and indeed has some premium foods, for example their lamb and rice formula. There is much debate even among the "experts" upon the "best" diet. Trying to discredit YTCA for this seems irresponsible to me. Here is a quote from their website:

**PURINA PARTNERSHIP PROGRAM**
.
Yorkshire Terrier owners have earned for the YTCA a total of $4,296.46. One half will go to the Donor advised fund at CHF and the other half will go to YTCA. If you feed Purina (dry kibble only no canned food products) please go to www.Purina.com and declare yourself a Yorkie owner with Purina and send in your Purina circles to benefit your breed.
.
You do not have to be a YTCA member you just have to own a Yorkie and feed a Purina dry kibble dog food to benefit the breed through this program.
.

Forty-three hundred dollars. Wow, after they pay for all the surgeries that rescues need, maybe they can all take a trip to the Caribbean!




While there is disagreement as to what is the 'best' diet for our dogs, there is little disagreement over what is a good diet. I used Purina Pedigree Small Breed myself until I did my research on pet foods. The last Purina product I read the label on was Purina Pro Plan and I wasn't impressed. Diet is a critical factor, especially in toy breeds. I'm sorry if you feel I was trying to discredit the YTCA. I stated that it was my opinion; others are free to decide for themselves. I won't dispute that half of the proceeds go to a good cause, but the other half DOES go to the YTCA. Again, and this is just MY opinion, Purina is hoping to gain an informal 'seal of approval' (and market share) in doing this. Decide for yourself why the YTCA is. I'm not trying to start a debate but I find it personally disturbing.

[PrincessDiana]

Originally Posted by MIZBROWN

Great post

There are so many that sware by AKC, as if its sacred and thats the final say (which is fine)... but if they promote such products and arent even monitoring their own websites to ensure that the breeders they list are abiding to the rules....how reputable is that? And even more so... I think that just because an individual abides by their state law, rather than the all mighty AKC law... doesnt necessarily make them a back yard breeder

I will comment... that its nice to see everyone be able to express their opinions in a polite & informative manner... Lets keep it up

I don't quite understand how doing what's best (yes, best) for the puppy is "obeying the state law". The law says that they are ALLOWED to be released at that age, not that they should, nor are they required to be released at that age. I think that YTCA (not AKC) knows what's best for a Yorkie, not some government official.

Originally Posted by gutu28

I have a feeling that table scraps are much more the cause of this than poor quality food. Not that I think that good quality isn't important, of course..

I truly believe that's exactly what it is. I still don't understand why we cannot differentiate between prematurely taking a puppy from it's mother and feeding it lower grade food. There is a HUGE difference. One is a matter of ethics, and one is a matter of preference.

A mother is not a bad mother because they feed their kids junk food. They may not be the most nutritional mothers, but that does not mean they don't raise well behaved children. The same is with dogs, there are some lessons that absolutely NEED to be taught by the mother.

Also, what's the rush? Why take a puppy away from it's mother? Is 4 weeks really that much time to wait? This dog will most likely never see it's mother again. I understand dogs are different from us, but I still see a lot of issues with this.

[PrincessDiana]

NOT to mention, I do believe YorkieTalk ran an ad for Eukanuba recently....

Just saying.

[Woogie Man]

Originally Posted by PrincessDiana

NOT to mention, I do believe YorkieTalk ran an ad for Eukanuba recently....

Just saying.

Yes, they did...go figure . I believe Eukanuba is also the sponsor of one of the premier dog shows in the U.S.....just saying

[BakersDozen]

This topic is one of several I have been compiling studies and reports on. Does anyone have links or references to published studies on socialization periods? With respect to those breeders or other laypersons who have experiences and opinions on the subject, I am not looking for these types of articles. I am looking for scientific research, studies, and/or articles researched & written by vets and/or animal behavorists. Any links or references would be appreciated.

[bjh]

This is one of the best websites I have found on puppy socialization and there is a vet viewpoint on there that is also interesting.

http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/ear...alization.html

[BakersDozen]

Originally Posted by bjh

This is one of the best websites I have found on puppy socialization and there is a vet viewpoint on there that is also interesting.

http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/ear...alization.html

Interesting indeed.....I haven't read all the links yet, but thank you very much! I notice one of the links is the results of an actual scientific study--just the stuff I've been looking for.

[bobbill]

We live in the UK and I got little Billi at 10 weeks from a breeder or so we were told. she was infact only 6 weeks old. We thought she looked very small but she was weaned. Our vet told us at her health check that she was younger than we thought. Luckily she's a plucky little thing and she's now 6 months old and doing well, always looking for trouble and chasing our other chorkie who is 3 years old.