Teacup, Oh No! Another Take On It

[MrYorkiecrazy]

Originally Posted by alaskayorkie

You can call your Yorkie a thimble for all I care, just don't torture tiny females by letting them get pregnant. And don't intentionally breed for a size that is proven to have higher health risks. The only reason to breed is to improve the breed. And a Yorkie with a higher risk of genetic defects is not an improvement.

AGREED!
Many years ago now, there was a movement to make German Shepherds and Doberman Pinchers larger. Sadly, this is in large part why hip dysplasia is such a common problem in these breeds today.
I wish you could count on Yorkies being bred to a size within the breed standard... "7 lbs or under".

[hha]

Originally Posted by candybaby

See this goes to show whether you have a big or a little yorkie they all get sick and/or have health problems. People always say the tinies are always sick or have alot of health problems, but the big one's have as many problems as the small one's do.

As for the term "teacup" I don't like when people say that it's just a "key" word to make money.

Well, I think it's because I got her from a shady breeder, just never knew at the time..I still like the ones that are a tad bigger...I really wouldn't want a little tiny one, and am hoping and praying the one I have now gets to at least 5 lbs. She's too tiny right now, and it's just my hubby and me, but, she's underfoot, she jumps like a kangaroo, and I do worry more about health problems etc. when they're smaller. My big one is very healthy, other than the reverse sneezing, but, I know little ones that have that too..I know if my 14 lber has diarrhea for 2 days and loses a couple pounds it won't kill her, but, if this little one loses 2 lbs. it could kill her..

[MrYorkiecrazy]

Originally Posted by candybaby

See this goes to show whether you have a big or a little yorkie they all get sick and/or have health problems. People always say the tinies are always sick or have alot of health problems, but the big one's have as many problems as the small one's do.

As for the term "teacup" I don't like when people say that it's just a "key" word to make money.

[Rosey07]

OK I'm not reading beyond the first post...but here's my take...Teacup is just a word that some like to use to convey a size instead of saying tiny...it helps to make a sell.

It don't sway me one way or the other.

[yorkiegirl83]

I don't necesarily mind the teacup term being used if when I see a breeder using it, they are breeding dogs that are of a good size to be bred (not 2-3 lb mothers) and they are not skyrocketing the prices on the smaller yorkies over the larger ones.

When I got my yorkie McKenzie, she was advertised in the paper as a teacup. I immediately was upset at this and being from the paper, I thought there was no way that it could be good, but we went to check it out anyhow.

When I got there, I saw her mother (her father was co owned and not there at the moment, but I did see pictures). Her mother was 5-6 lbs I believe, I can't remember the exact weight right now... and she was healthy, lively and sweet. McKenzie weighed 1.5 lbs when I got her at 11 weeks and I was told she'd be no bigger than 4 lbs. Right now at just over 9 months she's 4.3 lbs and that's mostly because I feed her too many treats . I suspect she'll end up around 5 and I'm ecstatic with that!

When I saw how TINY 1 lb is, I was shocked and was praying every day she'd hit at least 4-5 lbs.

I did ask the breeder why she used the term teacup and she told me that's just how she's always done it before there was a big fuss over the word. She was nice, informative, asked me questions and her puppies were all priced the same.

I really think it depends on the context in which people are using the term teacup I guess is my point..

[Nikki627]

Cujo woke me up to go to the bathroom, and now I can't go back to sleep, so I came to YorkieTalk, lol.

Anyway, my take on the teacup debate: I think it's misleading b/c many people aren't thinking of teacup as an adjective, but as "teacup yorkie" as a noun, if that makes sense. They think it is actually classified as a different dog than the standard yorkshire terrier. I see it as a red flag when in a listing b/c it makes me think they either haven't done their research on this breed, and thus, have absolutely no business breeding them, or they are intentionally misleading people.

I mean, really, you can't know for sure how big a puppy is going to get. You can make an educated guess based on parents and grandparents, but you can't know for sure that one won't turn out bigger or smaller than one would have thought. So, I think selling puppies as "teacup yorkies" is misleading, seeing as that isn't an actual breed and you aren't 100% certain how big the dog will get.

Cujo is 4 lbs (I just describe him as kind of a runt), and when people ask me if he's a teacup, I just say, no, that there isn't really a such thing as a teacup yorkie that some just get bigger than others. I don't go into a big speech or anything about it, unless the person says, "Oh, really?" and and asks about it. And I've really been surprised at the number of people who do ask and want to be educated, b/c they had no idea and actually thought there were "teacup yorkies" and "standard yorkies."

Anyway, just my $.02 on the matter. Cujo's waiting to be my snugglebug again, so I'm gonna try to get back to sleep.

[mickey3696]

I asked a breeder how big a puppy was going to be one time and this is what I got. He asked if my mother knew how big I was going to be when I was born. I told him no I dont think so. He said did you know how big your son was going to be? I said no. He then asked me why not? He said you know both parents both grandparents so why do you not know. I didnt answer him just thought for a sec. He told me I can lie to you and tell you he is going to be 7 pounds but I am not going to do that. He then told me that he only breeds to what akc standards. He said thats all I am going to tell you about weight. I think he had a great point.

[Tinker'sMommy]

I just have a comment, Mostly everyone here disagrees with the word TEACUP to discribe a yorkie for whatever reason, but I just saw someone who's signature says they LOVE their TEAPOT yorkie and that's ok? Right? I mean she is just letting us know that she has a bigger yorkie.......

I think if it's just being used to discribe the size of a yorkie, there is nothing wrong with it, it's just a word........When is being used to make more money in any dog not just yorkies, then I think is a problem, or when you have "breeders" breeding their 2.7 lbs babies or under 4lbs for that matter

I do like the smaller yorkies, I think they are adorable......but why do breeders charge by size and not by dog??? quality? Honestly most breeders charge up to $1000 more or more for "tinies" I dont get it!! Even reputable breeders .

[FlDebra]

When I first came to YT I found out the term "teacup" had some negative connotations. I too, wrote and asked why on earth a term could illicit bad feelings. Then after a few years of seeing so many posts like this one:http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/bre...55-beware.html where time after time, YT members have told of their experiences with unscrupulous breeders who try to get more money or make more sales by claiming their dogs are "teacups." I also saw more & more posts of YT members with new "teacup" puppies that had serious health problems. Yes, health problems can and do hit at any size, but tinies have a greater percentage of serious problems for their numbers. They are very much more prone to hypoglycemic episodes. Tiny females that are bred have a much greater chance of requiring a C-section that puts them at greater risk due to anesthesia. The smaller the dog, the more dangerous it is to put them under. Continually breeding for tinies can also start affecting their bones and joints. Every breed has a recommended size range as that is most healthy for the breed. Our breed official parent club is YTCA and it recommends 4-7 pounds. It also says that most breeders find females unsuitable for breeding if they are under 5 pounds. Another thing to keep in mind is that breeding does not just affect the puppies of that litter. You are creating part of a health history that will affect many generations to come. That is how those sudden ultra-tiny pups occur when the parents were full size. Somewhere in the history, there was a breeder breeding tiny females.

Do not get me wrong -- I LOVE TINY Yorkies -- no matter what you call them! I was asked if that was not hypocritical to like the tiny dogs but not like breeding for them. I think enough happen naturally when you breed 5-7 pound females. I do not think there is any excuse to risk the life of a 3 pound (and LESS!) female yorkie breeding her. The goal of any breeder is to have her puppies meet standard. Wanting them all to be 7 pounds are under as adults will naturally result in some tiny 3 pounders and maybe smaller. But these are usually healthier on AVERAGE than those who are purposefully bred from tiny females and males. When continually bred too small, you sometimes wind up seeing puppies that do not meet the standard in other areas and the whole Yorkie look is lost. Many breeders of tinies are careful to hide the fact that they lose many puppies too. They point to a healthy one and say see -- I am not endangering any of them. But over time the actual facts of life are going to prove out. It is more dangerous to breed those precious tiny girls. Even if they make it through the breeding, how will they live their later years? How will that toll on their tiny bodies show in their older age?

There is nothing wrong with the term. I think that today just as I did years ago when I first came here. Now I do understand that the term has gotten associated with many unsavory practices that irresponsible breeders continue to follow. Why say you are selling teacups? What does that really mean anyway? I have seen 5 pound dogs advertised as teacups. We see puppies advertised as teacups grow to 10 and 14 pound adults all the time. So, it does not have a clear descriptive value. Most buyers think it means their adult dog will be under 3 pounds. But no one can guarantee that. All too often, you see what happened to the poster in the thread I linked above -- they were deeply disappointed in their 10 pound teacup.

I would never harass or belittle anyone using the term. I won't even let a newer member know that the term might have a negative meaning when a breeder uses it, again. I don't think anyone should be made to feel bad for using the term. I think we all agree to that. Most of us also agree that the only real negative is that unscrupulous breeders have made a habit of using the term to swindle people into buying from them over others or paying more for theirs when they are insinuating their pups will be tiny, when they may or may not turn out that way. Most of us also agree that tiny females should not be bred; that plenty of tiny puppies will occur from naturally breeding 5-7 pound females. Most agree that it is unethical to risk the lives of these precious little females for greed. I only know of a VERY FEW who think they should continue to breed 3 pounds and under females. So I do not think we are all that far from general agreement. Which is a good thing!

Sorry for the tome -- I need to work on being more succint!

[FlDebra]

Originally Posted by Tinker'sMommy

...I do like the smaller yorkies, I think they are adorable......but why do breeders charge by size and not by dog??? quality? Honestly most breeders charge up to $1000 more or more for "tinies" I dont get it!! Even reputable breeders .

I think one reason Yorkies are not priced by quality is that too many breeders do not know what quality is. Too many are breeding dogs they think are cute when they are so far off from the standard they should have been spayed or neutered as soon as they were old enough. Go from website to website and you will see, IF they even show pictures of the dams and sires, that they are NOT good representatives of the breed. Look at the colors, look at the proportions, the toplines, the muzzles, the coat texture.

I am going to get a female next year. Luckily we have several EXCELLENT breeders here on YT that khow exactly how you should pick a breeding pair. I may have to take a road trip, but I plan to get a female that represents the breed like the standard intended. What is ironic is, I will probably not pay more than many that are selling "cute" puppies from parents not even close to standard.