We almost lost Sophie yesterday!

[Buddy-licious]

Wow, I am sure that was so scary!!!! I am happy that she is OK.

[MyFairLacy]

I bet you were scared to death! My baby is 7lbs so I've never been worried about hypoglycemia with her, but you always have to be so careful with the tiny ones. I'm so glad she made it and is okay!

I just wanted to say that it is fine to feed her canned food instead of kibble. I actually believe it is better for them as it is less processed and contains moisture that they need. You could leave kibble out all the time but feed her canned at regular meals. Just be sure to find a premium canned food like Nature's Variety, Innova, Wellness, California natural, Canidae, Merrick, etc.

I would definitely have her checked for a liver shunt, especially since she does have access to food all the time and at her age (even though she is tiny) she shouldn't be as susceptible to hypoglycemia as a young puppy. Liver shunt is a very common genetic problem with yorkies. A lot of vets will mistake liver shunt for hypoglycemia because of similar symptoms. I hope you'll have her checked.

[I Love Bailey]

Originally Posted by Sophie Bella

Where can you buy "nutrical"? I will definately keep this on hand. What types of fruits and veggies do you feed your girl? I would like to add some to Sophie's diet as well. Thanks so much for all of the responses!!

I buy nutrical at Petco. They have both puppy and adult formulas.
Angel loves brocoli, green beans,peas, apples, carrots. When I make a stir fry I put some in a bowl for them (minus the peppers and onions) She loves cooked vegies.
I feed both of mine Nature's Variety dry and wet food.

[Suzy]

Oh no! Great job on the quick thinking! I'm glad she's doing better now!

[Sophie Bella]

Originally Posted by I Love Bailey

I buy nutrical at Petco. They have both puppy and adult formulas.
Angel loves brocoli, green beans,peas, apples, carrots. When I make a stir fry I put some in a bowl for them (minus the peppers and onions) She loves cooked vegies.
I feed both of mine Nature's Variety dry and wet food.

I'll go to Petco today to purchase the nutrical. Sophie eats Nature's Variety Prairie.... I'll pick up some of the canned food today as well. I just contacted our Vet and scheduled for Sophie to be seen tomorrow morning. The emergency Vet wants them to do a blood test..... is this to check for liver shunt, or is there a different test to check for that? Thanks so much for ALL of the responses from everybody. It is so helpful and comforting, all at the same time

[Ellie May]

A regular blood test will show ALT, AST, BUN... levels. ALT and AST have to do with liver function. These do not have to be elevated even if there is a problem though. I would do this blood test anyway.

The blood test that needs to be done is a bile acid test. You dog is fasted for twelve hours (overnight) and blood is drawn, fed a meal and blood is drawn two hours later. If these numbers are elevated too much then more testing should be done.

[Sophie Bella]

Originally Posted by Buddy-licious

Wow, I am sure that was so scary!!!! I am happy that she is OK.

Yes..... I was SOOOOO scared!! I handed her limp body to my husband as I tried to find a phone book and an Emergency Vet. While I was doing that, and then trying to find a phone in our house that WORKED (doesn't it seem that in a crisis, it's practically impossible to find a phone that works?!!)....... I just wept and kept saying over and over to my husband "Don't let her die... please don't let her die". It was really devastating, and I don't know if I'll ever be able to let her out of my sight again! She has gone on all of my errands with me today, and most likely will be my little cling-on until she's a little older and much fatter.

[Sophie Bella]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

A regular blood test will show ALT, AST, BUN... levels. ALT and AST have to do with liver function. These do not have to be elevated even if there is a problem though. I would do this blood test anyway.

The blood test that needs to be done is a bile acid test. You dog is fasted for twelve hours (overnight) and blood is drawn, fed a meal and blood is drawn two hours later. If these numbers are elevated too much then more testing should be done.

I'm not sure how we're going to do the bile acid test. The emergency vet wrote in the papers that given Sophie's history, it isn't a good idea to fast her for 12 hrs. (we've only had her for 2 wks., but she had a minor episode when we first got her. She was really weak and couldn't stand.... I gave her food, and within 5 minutes, she was fine again). She just really needs to eat. Hmmm.... what to do.

[Ladymom]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

A regular blood test will show ALT, AST, BUN... levels. ALT and AST have to do with liver function. These do not have to be elevated even if there is a problem though. I would do this blood test anyway.

The blood test that needs to be done is a bile acid test. You dog is fasted for twelve hours (overnight) and blood is drawn, fed a meal and blood is drawn two hours later. If these numbers are elevated too much then more testing should be done.

Yes, you have to get a bile acids test done and possibly a Protein C test depending on what the results of the bile acid tests are.

As Elly May said, levels from a regular CBC can be normal even with a liver shunt. We have a heartbreaking case on another forum now where the member had bloodwork done before bringing her puppy home to check liver values and everything was normal. He's 5&1/2 months old now and and just had two bile acid tests and a protein C tests and it looks like the little guy has a shunt afterall.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Sophie Bella

I'm not sure how we're going to do the bile acid test. The emergency vet wrote in the papers that given Sophie's history, it isn't a good idea to fast her for 12 hrs. (we've only had her for 2 wks., but she had a minor episode when we first got her. She was really weak and couldn't stand.... I gave her food, and within 5 minutes, she was fine again). She just really needs to eat. Hmmm.... what to do.

You can have them do a urine bile acid test: http://www.antechdiagnostics.com/cli...3/may03_01.htm

Antech is probably the supplier they use for their blood testing too, so it should'nt be a big deal to do it this way instead - it's usually around the same price, or a bit cheaper.

[Ellie May]

I don't think urine bile acids are optimal (I could be wrong). Sometimes vets will do the blood test after a meal only if the dog has hypoglycemia problems. It isn't the best scenario but it can be done. Or, sometimes they just fast them for eight hours. It really does sound like hypo but better to be safe than sorry being as she did go unconscious and didn't perk up right after feeding or sugar this time.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

I don't think urine bile acids are optimal (I could be wrong). Sometimes vets will do the blood test after a meal only if the dog has hypoglycemia problems. It isn't the best scenario but it can be done. Or, sometimes they just fast them for eight hours. It really does sound like hypo but better to be safe than sorry being as she did go unconscious and didn't perk up right after feeding or sugar this time.

Here is some info on urine bile acid testing:

* the sensitivity and specificity of urine bile acids measurement were similar to those of serum bile acids, but the urine bile acids test was more specific for canine liver dysfunction than was serum bile acids testing.
* a pattern of results showing very high serum bile acids but only slightly increased urine bile acids may be indicative of a shunting disease such as PSS or MVD.
* while bile acids testing can identify animals with hepatic dysfunction, it may fail to recognize animals with hepatic disease in the absence of hepatic dysfunction.

[Sophie Bella]

Originally Posted by Wylie's Mom

Here is some info on urine bile acid testing:

* the sensitivity and specificity of urine bile acids measurement were similar to those of serum bile acids, but the urine bile acids test was more specific for canine liver dysfunction than was serum bile acids testing.
* a pattern of results showing very high serum bile acids but only slightly increased urine bile acids may be indicative of a shunting disease such as PSS or MVD.
* while bile acids testing can identify animals with hepatic dysfunction, it may fail to recognize animals with hepatic disease in the absence of hepatic dysfunction.

Thank you so much for this information..... I'll ask our Vet tomorrow if we can do the urine testing. I already told him that I won't fast Sophie right now.... she just needs her food too much. If a dog has liver shunt.... what can you do for them? Do they need surgery, or can it be controlled with the proper diet?

[Riddicks Mommy]

Originally Posted by Sophie Bella

Oh my gosh..... we had a horrible scare yesterday. We kept little Sophie, and her doggie sister in their wire crate during the Christmas festivities yesterday. We didn't want them getting into the mass amounts of chocolate everywhere, or stepped on during all the excitement. Sophie seemed to be fine, and was napping alot, which I was happy about. The scare happened at about 4pm when I went to let the girls out to run around, and Sophie didn't wake up! She was limp and shaking and I figured that she was hypoglycemic. I put a bit of Karo syrup in her mouth and rushed her to the Emergency vet. They instantly hooked her up to an IV, drew blood, and began administering sugar water. I was so thankful that she made it to the vet alive. It took a good few hours to get her conscious again, and then they wanted to keep her for the night. I picked her up this morning and she seems back to her old self again. She is eating well. I have her eating canned puppy food, mixed with her kibble.... and if she doesn't eat, I sneak a bit of ground beef in to make it taste better. She is 5 1/2 mths. old and right at 2 lbs. I want her to gain weight..... another lb. or 2 would be great, but she hasn't been gaining. I didn't want to "spoil" her with canned food, but her kibble just isn't cutting it.... she eats human grade food with plenty of nutrients, but she must not be eating enough. Anyways, after the scare she gave us last night, I have decided to spoil her til the cows come home... this kid is eating canned food, ground beef, whatever it takes to get her fat and keep her CONSCIOUS! We feel very fortunate today.

Try this recipe for her.. I am so happy she is ok.. I'd be so scared I'd be crying!!

http://theherbs.info/Pets/satinball.html
"Satin Ball" recipe for dogs who won't eat

This recipe is for dogs who desperately need calories and need to put on weight, but who have no appetite. It sounds yucky, but when these are done they are really appealing, even to me.
In my experience, this is a kind of "last resort and hope" food that many sick dogs will eat.

Mix all ingredients (like meatballs). I shape them like thick hamburgers rather than balls because they store easier in the freezer and thaw faster. Freeze in serving portion size. Nothing is cooked -- all ingredients are uncooked RAW and "Satin Balls" are served raw.

This recipe for Little Dogs (1/10 of full recipe) would be a good test to see if your dog will eat them before you make the substantial investment in ingredients of the half or full size recipe. See Notes below about the Total cereal, oats, wheat germ and vegetable oil.

Satin Balls for Little Dogs -- or to try out recipe on your dog to see if he will eat it.

1 lb cheap hamburger (for high fat %)
1 and 1/3 cups Total cereal
1 and 1/2 cups uncooked oatmeal
1 raw egg
6 Tablespoons wheat germ
1 package Knox unflavored gelatin
2 Tablespoons vegetable oil
2 Tablespoons unsulphered molasses
Pinch of salt

Satin Balls Half Recipe -- recommended amount to mix up

5 lbs cheap hamburger (for high fat %)
1/2 large box Total cereal (about 6 cups cereal)
1/2 large box uncooked oatmeal (about 7.5 cups oats)
5 raw eggs
1/2 of 15oz jar wheat germ (about 2 cups)
5 packages Knox unflavored gelatin
5/8 cup vegetable oil (this is pretty close to 2/3 cup)
5/8 cup unsulphered molasses
pinch of salt

The half recipe, using hamburger that is 20% fat calories, has 12,400 calories. The last batch I made ended up making 22 patties, so each has about 560 calories. I have big dogs (Danes) so if your dog is smaller you might want to make your Satin Balls or patties smaller.

I find that making the half recipe is so much easier that it is worth doing even though you have half-boxes of things around for awhile and have to mix it up twice as often. The disadvantage of the full recipe is the need of a really BIG container and it is very hard work to mix it all up.

Satin Balls Full Recipe

10 lbs cheap hamburger (high fat %)
1 large box Total cereal (about 12 cups cereal)
1 large box uncooked oatmeal (about 15 cups oats)
10 raw eggs
1 15oz jar wheat germ
10 packages Knox unflavored gelatin
1 and 1/4 cup vegetable oil
1 and 1/4 cup unsulphered molasses
pinch of salt

Notes:
"Whole Wheat Total" cereal (blue box) comes in large 1 lb 2 oz size (about 12 cups settled) and a smaller 12 oz size (about 8 cups cereal), which would work in Little Dog or Half Recipe. But in the long run, the large size is more economical. Don't get Raisin Total or Lo Carb Total.

Uncooked Oatmeal like "Quaker Old Fashioned Oats" and less expensive supermarket house brand, come in large 2 lb 10oz size (15 cups oats) or smaller 18 oz size (about 7 cups oats).

15oz jar of wheat germ is about 4 cups. Some stores only carry a 12oz jar of wheat germ, which contains about 3 and 1/4 cups of it.

Vegetable oil -- use a good one. I use grapeseed oil, olive oil would be next best.

Tip: I don’t break the eggs directly into the pot of stuff. The first time I broke the eggs into a separate little bowl for some reason. One of the eggs was bad and it would have ruined the whole pot of stuff. I had never seen an egg like that and had no reason to expect it, but I never break eggs directly into anything anymore.

The Satin Ball patties were what Duke started eating when he wouldn’t eat anything at all after his torsion surgery. He still gets one a day.

It is important to stick to the proportions. I gave the recipe to someone whose dog wouldn’t eat, she told me she made them but he wouldn’t eat them. Then she told me what she did to the recipe, changing it so much that it ended up something entirely different (no wonder her dog wouldn't eat it). You need to follow the recipe carefully if you are going to go to the trouble and expense of making it.

If you have any questions about the Satin Ball recipe, please let me know.

Jan Hodges
Bell, Hans and Duke
New Mexico, USA

[kezza]

Oh my goodness! what a scare you have had! I would have been crying too if it was Pixie, she is coming up to 7 months old and around 2 and a half pounds, she's not had an episode like that, but theres always the possibility due to her small size, i'm willing her to gain more weight as she gets older and she does have a fantastic apetite, she has scrambled eggs and a drink of warm goats milk for brekkie, snacks throughout the day and her Royal canin meat & kibble for dinner and a few pieces of chicken breast before bedtime.