The case against crate-training (vs. "gating")

[Erin]

Originally Posted by mistyinca

I think the guy who wrote that is an @$$, and he doesn't know the first thing about crate training. This is nothing more than propaganda for the purpose of promoting his own book. I'm sorry, this is in no way criticising those of you who prefer NOT to crate, but it makes me mad to see stuff like this where someone is trying to explain crate training by making it out to be something it is not.

There is a heck of a lot more to proper crate training, than sticking a dog in a crate to keep him/her from pottying on the carpet. Anyone who just sticks their dog in a crate and leaves him all day is not using "Crate Training," but is simply "caging." He has a heck of a lot of nerve trying to confuse the two. We've used crate training since Chloe was a young puppy. She IS fully housebroken, and has been since 5 months. And by housebroken, I mean, she doesn't go in the house. She scratches at the back door to be let out; other times, it's when we take her outside anyway. She has never eaten poop either. She is crated when we leave, and at night, we leave the door open on it during the day when she's hanging around the house, and she goes in her crate on her own when she wants to nap or is afraid of the vacuum or something. She sees it as a safe haven.

I'm sorry...you don't have to agree with the concept of crating, and I respect that, but PLEASE don't think that the methods this man is talking about is crate training. When he uses the "cage" terms, he should stick to that only, because the methods he refers to bears NO RESEMBLANCE to proper crate training.

And FWIW, I would have very little confidence in reading any book by someone who has to totally contort the meaning of another method to promote his own.

I totally agree.

Also, they don't need to be fully housetrained to sleep with you. Loki slept with us long before he was fully housetrained (and by housetrained I also mean he goes outside, 100%) He only slept in his crate until he learned to tell us he needed to go out. He would scratch at the crate door and whine. Eventually, we started closing the bedroom door and he would scratch at THAT if he needed to go out at night. Finally we put up the bells and he will just wake me up or run downstairs and ring his bells, just like during the day.

Now with Sammy, she doesn't have bladder issues like Loki had so we just let her sleep in the bed. We do close the bedroom door again, and she will jump on me, lick my ear, whatever she needs to do to wake me up. The trick is that I HAVE TO GET UP, or she will go on the floor. If you want to sleep in this does not work! I don't crate Sammy much when we are home because she hates her crate. She was already a year when we got her and did not learn to settle in her crate like Loki. She cries for attention. So instead, we take her out OFTEN and reward her for going. We even reward her when she scratches at the door. Every dog is different. But, for her safety, she IS still crated when we are not home. She and Loki have matching crates and can see each other. She also doesn't cry when we are not home (I asked the neighbor) because we are not there to cry to! She sleeps just like Loki.

I also feed them in their crates. It helps avoid any problems when one thinks the other got better food :-)

To those with puppies who cry when you put them in - do not give in. Reward them when they are quiet. If you take them out because they are crying, they will learn to cry for attention like Sammy. I promise you WILL learn the difference between "I have to pee" and "I want attention" cries.

Slowly you give more freedom. I used to crate Sammy when I showered, now I trust her to stay right by the door. You'll learn when your dog needs supervision and when they don't, like when they were just outside and are empty. It just takes time to get to know your dog. You crate them when they are most likely to have an accident. That way, they don't have them and you get to reward them for going outside every single time!

[Erin]

Originally Posted by Lil Max

As I read more and more, I grow more and more confused. I have a 7 month old yorkie that I have had for a month. She's great and I would say doing an awesome job with training. My husband and I tend not to crate her when we are away and have chosen to gate her. She has about a 4X4 space with her crate, water, 1 toy (kong), and lined with pee pee pads. In the morning I take her out, she does very well ( I have to say I crate her at night near our bed). We go in and she gets free roam of the house without worries. She is fed, we play a little. As I prepare for my day, she is gated in the kitchen (9x9) and does well (usually just waits for me to get out of the shower and continue with the morning)
Then I walk her again before I leave and put her in the gated area (4x4). For the most part, she waits for my husband to return home and has no need for the pads. When I try to lessen the amount of covered floor, she then goes on that small part of the floor I have cleared. If I go back to covering the floor, no accidents. Why is this? When we get home, we immediately take her out, she does what she needs to do and is fine.
Also, we don't really give her free access of the house when we return from work because there has been the occassional accident. How can she choose to hold it some times and others seem not to make the connection?

help? Will she ever make the connection and be able to have run of the house?

I think you are over-anaylzing it. Do you always go at the same time every day? Loki does. Sammy doesn't. I have to watch her more closely than I had to watch him because he was predictable.

Sometimes she has to go when you are not home, sometimes she doesn't. I can't explain why she goes on the floor, unless for some reason it smells different OR she is used to laying on the pads and therefore sleeping/living on them and she doesn't want to pee on them?

[Lil Max]

Thanks for the feedback. I think you might be right about lying on the pads as a "bed" when we aren't home. That would make sense. She sees the whole area as her place and doesn't want to soil it. If that is the case, how do I go about changing that thought? Or should I bother and just leave well enough alone? I probably do over analyze. Suggestions? I want her to feel she can plan, eat, sleep, and go on the pads if she needs to.