Yorkie puppy attacked by our other dog! (long)
 

This is our situation. We adopted Sugar (a cairn terrier mix rescue) who is 14 lbs. several months ago. She and my husband bonded really well. She is a very sweet and wonderful female, but she had issues. As a puppy, she was left crated for up to 13 hours a day, and her owners became increasingly frustrated by the fact that she wasn't housetrained. (Well..duh.) Her foster family was wonderful and they kept her in their large, fenced backyard. She was constantly picked on by her other bigger dogs. Her foster mother always felt like she should be an inside dog, but didn't have the time to housetrain her fully. Well, we took Sugar in, finished her housetraining, loved her, gave her the first toys and treats we think she's had. We estimate that she's about two years old. We asked her foster mother how she thought Sugar would react to a yorkie puppy BEFORE we got the puppy and she felt that she would be fine.

We have kept them separated and have been gradually introducing them to each other over the past few weeks. Everything seemed promising, but Sugar just didn't seem to know how to "play". We were having a supervised play session between Sugar and Gizmo (yorkie puppy/ male, 15 weeks old, 3.25 lbs.) when Sugar "appeared" to ATTACK the puppy! She was on top of him and it looked like she shook him. There were growls from Sugar, high pitched pained cries from the puppy. My husband lunged for Sugar and the puppy and so did I. (My husband's stiches from surgery started bleeding as a result). We took the dogs to separate rooms. Gizmo cried out the whole way into the living room with me. When he calmed down, we found NOTHING wrong with him. I've checked him over, my husband has checked him over and our son has checked him over and we can find no sore spots or anything visible.

Before this, Sugar has "corrected" the puppy a few times by light growling and Gizmo has backed off and rolled over onto his belly, but NOTHING like this!!!!

Now I am afraid that next time she could kill him. I have left a phone message for Sugar's foster mom, but she hasn't called me back yet.

Sugar also growls and barks around any repairmen who come to our house and our older son who doesn't live with us. We have worked with her to let her know this is unacceptable behavior and when she reacts well around strangers we praise and reward her. I just don't know what to do. Any insight would be appreciated.

gosh. I wish I had advice for you. I have an older collie who is not thrilled with our new family member and she does get a little food agressive with the puppy never with us. She is 10 and has always been such a sweetheart and we were shocked that she is being so difficult. Mind you, she has not attacked Zoe but she does make me a little nervous an I would never leave them alone unsupervised. Anyways, I am having a trainer come to the house next week and this is one of the reasons why so I will let you know how I make out then. Good Luck. Theresa

I can offer condolences but not advice. I know how much it hurts. My two adult yorkie females Chattie and Chizzie fight and are kept separated 24/7. We have adjusted --Chattie lives in our huge masterbedroom (about 1/3 of the main level of our home) with access outside on the covered porch. Chizzie has the the rest of the main level.

I think it would be a good idea to consult a professional trainer in this situation.

Good luck!

Max had (has) fear issues, especially around my brother's boxer (who has NEVER done ANYTHING to Max other than play in his rough, boxer-like way), and I hired a behaviorist to help. She did really well with him and Max can now tolerate Vito. I would still never leave them alone unsupervised but it has certainly made things easier when I visit my parents

I just talked to Sugar's rescue foster mom and let her know about our issue. We are going to talk again later today. She will also consult with the head of the rescue group and see what they can suggest. She was very surprised by Sugar's behavior. She said that Sugar ALWAYS showed submission, even to her five lb. Chi's and she never would have expected to Sugar to treat a puppy that way.

All I can figure out is that Sugar's confidence has increased since we adopted her, and recently her world was turned upside down with John's surgery (not as much time with her) and the new puppy.

The behaviorist sounds like a good idea, but how do I go about finding a good one locally?

I found my behaviorist through my hairdresser, believe it or not! He had yorkies in the past and is a dog person and I asked him if he knew of a good trainer that would be able to help with Max. She is one of his clients and he said that he heard good things about her. I think the best thing to do is just ask around. Does the foster mom know of anyone? Talk to your vet and see if he/she has any recommendations for local trainers. My behaviorist laughed when she found out how I heard about her because most of her referrals had come from vets in the area. You can also check local dog training spots--not pet smart or petco, though. My behaviorist does little training workshops at a few locations locally, so I'm sure if I called them, they would have recommended her as well. And if you find one, ask for references. They can be expensive to hire and you wouldn't want to spend all that money on someone who has little experience and doesn't know what he/she is doing. Good luck!

Are you sure that Sugar "attacked" the puppy as opposed with merely trying to "play" with him? My 6 month old yorkie, Johnny Cash, has one heck of a yelp and he's a rough player and he loves to taunt my 1 year old cat. (A cat who is HUGE and about twice the size of Cash) They are best friends and after pouncing pouncing nudging nipping barking nipping...back and forth, the cat will completely immobilize Johnny Cash and pin him to the floor and Johnny will yelp like he's been injured. I run over screaming, thinking Johnny's been injured, and the cat bolts away. And everytime Johnny comes to a full stop, looks at me with that tilted head for a split second (like I'm crazy) and almost immediately, Johnny bolts right back after the cat and continues taunting and playing with the cat as if nothing happened. "Ah, Mom, relax already!!!"

Could you have overreacted and the puppy got frightened by your reaction and kept crying? (I know my instinct is to run over and separate them so I freak out sometimes...but in the end I see that they are just playing and I'm overreacting.) Or was this clearly a serious injury? Was Sugar growling while on top of the puppy or vicious, exposing his teeth and growling?

My 14 year old yorkie, Tahoe, wasn't thrilled with Johnny Cash after the first day or two of Cash being here...but it's been about 3 months and Tahoe has set the boundries as the Master of the House. He growls at Cash when Cash is getting irritating and he growls at Cash whenever Cash tries to lay next to Tahoe. But, for the most part, Tahoe has accepted this little nuisance that has come into our life (LOL!) and deals. However, I have made extra efforts to make Tahoe feel the change less. When Tahoe is obviously getting annoyed by Cash, I will take Tahoe separately into the bedroom and put him on the bed (which is too high for Cash to jump onto) so we can be alone. I stroke him and pet him and tell him how much I love him. I lay next to him on the bed and we have "alone time" for about 20 minutes and he seems to appreciate it. Also, whenever a guest comes into the house, they're nature is to go to greet the puppy first. I always greet them by saying "Say hello to Tahoe first" and they do. Tahoe feels good about that and wags his tail away. I also have rules where Tahoe is always the first to be put on the bed at night when we all go to bed. Cash has to wait by the bed until Tahoe finally arrives and I put Tahoe on the bed and then Cash follows once Tahoe is on the bed. Also, I'm very clear to push Cash away from Tahoe when Cash is "getting in Tahoe's face" too much. I say "No, Cash!" and push him away. By doing so, Tahoe knows that I'm protecting him and that I acknowledge the invasion in his life.

As far as your two dogs, I wonder if it is counterproductive to separate them. They'll never bond if you keep them separated. Sugar just needs to learn how to deal and I don't think Sugar will if you keep them apart.

~ Kelly

I probably was overreacting and they probably were playing, but it was terrifying at the time. I had no idea dogs could "play" that viciously. Yes, there was growling and teeth showing and my husband said that Sugar definitely had a hold of the puppy (Yorkie) at about the neck area and was shaking her head...whether or not the puppy was being shaken, I don't know. This all happened so fast! We still haven't found any signs that the puppy was injured in any way.

Can I risk NOT separating them? I don't know.

I am glad Gizmo was not injured.
I can't help you but hope you find a solution to your delema.
Sugar may be just protecting what she believe to be hers and
sees the puppy as an intruder.
Hope things work out for you.

Hey. I was going to ask the same question " Are you sure it was an attack." I have found that atleast for us there have been a couple of scares with my four year old female and ten year old male and Jersey. Jersey is nosy and hasn't learned manners fully yet. I've seen Bella literally ontop of jersey and Jersey scream and I like you an petrified. No marks though. Not even a wet spot on Jersey. It was all noise to let the pup know she's done wrong. They have to establish a pecking order and this is how they do it. Elaine

Ask groomers and your vet. Alot of time they can recommend a trainer for you. Best of luck

I saw a segment on the dog whisperer of the same thing. He took the attacker by the scruff of the neck and made him lay on his side till he gave in and calmed down. He had the dog that was attacked stand right in front of the attacker. I think what this does is put the attacker in the order of the pack that he's supposed to be in. Anyway, I do agree that a behaviorest needs to be brought in, or maybe look thru these video's and see if you can find one that would help you try to correct this behavior yourself.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.co.../dogwhisperer/

Maybe you can start off by separating them and then slowly putting them together for gradually more time (in your company of course). Start by allowing them to interact for 15 minutes with you in the room. Then separate them. Then do it for 30 minutes the next time. If there is any growling, reprimand the instigator and separate them. Here's what I try to remember...if Johnny jumps on Tahoe and Tahoe growls, I don't reprimand Tahoe. He's just trying to show the puppy that what he's doing is wrong. So, I reprimand the puppy for jumping on Tahoe. I pet Tahoe and say "It's okay, you tell him, Tahoe." Then I push the puppy away. Why do I do this when it seems like Tahoe is the guilty one? Because the puppy will never understand that he can't jump all over Tahoe (just like he can't jump all over guests) unless I reprimand him for it. Tahoe has his own personal boundaries just like people do and I'm not going to reprimand him for setting his. They aren't unreasonable boundaries. He doesn't growl at the puppy UNLESS the puppy is overwearing his welcome...jumping on him, biting Tahoe's ears, trying to nurse from Tahoe wee wee...which he did when he first arrived. So I try to allow him to let the puppy know his boundaries.

You can also reward Sugar if, at the end of the 30 minutes they haven't fought...give Sugar a treat (and give the puppy a treat sitting right beside Sugar) and return Sugar to the other side of the gate until it's time to reacquaint them again. Now, if they fight, I say "no treat" and put the puppy/Sugar on the other side of the gate WITHOUT a treat.

That said, I would keep them on two sides of a baby gate while you are not home or not present...at least until they get along and until the puppy has grown quite a bit. After 3 months, I was able to draw the conclusion that they could live together once I saw Cash lay down next to Tahoe and Tahoe didn't growl at him.

Also, not sure how long you have had the puppy (weeks?)...but Tahoe was sad and depressed about the puppy for a good two months before he started to turn around. If it hasn't been 2-3 months, then I would give them time. Sugar is used to having free reign of the home and full attention and likely to be a little miffed about losing these freedoms and it's not unusual for him to take it out on the puppy.

We have had Gizmo (puppy) for about three weeks....so it's not much time at all. Part of our issue is that in the past we've only had one dog at a time. I think WE need to be trained rather than Sugar and Gizmo, so I will contact the head of the rescue where we found Sugar and see if she can recommend a trainer/behaviorist.

If there weren't such a weight difference, I would have NO problem letting them work out their differences, but...

Thanks everyone! You've given me a lot to think about.

Funny thing?...Gizmo is still trying to play with Sugar and doesn't seem afraid of her at all. His heartrate goes up when he sees her, but that could be that my fear is being communicated through him, or it could be he's just excited to see Sugar!

This is breaking my heart. I appreciate your help and support.

By the way, I'm told Cash will be 5 pounds fully grown (he's currently about 3.75 pounds) and Tahoe is 10 pounds. So, Cash is just a bit more than 1/3 Tahoe's size. I had the same concerns when I first got Cash as you do. Like I said, give it some time...the behaviorist should be able to help. Don't let it stress you out too much. Remember, these little guys can detect our every emotion.

I think everyone has given you great advice here but just to add. I would most definitely watch them play for 15 minutes at a time and if sugar gets aggressive you need to show her who the pack leader is, YOU! If she gets aggressive you immediately place her (without hurting her) on her back and give her a firm NO. This will teach her that YOU are the pack leader and she is not to reprimand or become aggressive as it is not her place in the pack. There's no magic formula or wand to wave around, so this takes time and it may not work for the first few times but eventually there will be an understanding.

I was wondering if it was just rough play also. I have a 3 yr 14 lb yorkie female, a 9 month 7 lb boy and a 4 month 4 lb female. When the two older ones (the 14 lb and 7lb) first started playing with the little one, my hubby and I were very afraid the little one would be hurt. There was a lot of growling but never any aggression. They play extremely hard, in fact we separate the baby but most of the time she starts the playing and ends the playing. It is funny to see the little one "take on" the other two and "win". She takes their toys and they don't seem to mind. Every once in a while the oldest will put the two pups in line but she never hurts them. I guess we are lucky that so far everyone gets along great. If one is out of the crate, that one will bug us to let the other two out. It is great to see the three play. But like I said, they sometimes play very rough and hard and noisy but that is just they way they play.

I know this is not much help but maybe it is just the older one putting the younger one in check. I would monitor them at all times though just to be sure. I still do watch them at all times.

Miracles are amazing!
 

Isn't it amazing how miracles work? While we were working on finding a behaviorist/trainer for this situation, we were contacted by a friend who had heard about our struggle with Sugar and Gizmo. She really likes Sugar and asked if she could take her. We were shocked at first. We hadn't even considered rehoming her, but we thought about it a lot. She has a great rapport with Sugar, wants an inside dog and isn't interested in getting any others, she grew up with dogs and has a lot of experience with them. She is well aware of the situation. Sugar needs that. She was fine with us until we brought Gizmo into the equation, now Sugar's miserable. After consulting once again with Sugar's rescue foster mom, we have rehomed her. I am sad, but I feel a sense of peace about the whole thing. I have always believed in a higher power..a kind and loving God, and this has just reaffirmed that faith. We will keep in close contact with Sugar's new mommy, and we truly believe this is the best situation for Sugar and our yorkie puppy Gizmo. Now Gizmo is much safer and more secure with us, and Sugar is in a much less stressful situation.

Miracles are amazing! Thank you all for your support during this difficult time.

I think thats the greatest thing that could have happened...sounds like the perfect arrangement..and you can still see Sugar too and know she is being well cared for..Im happy for you and Sugar and Gizmo..

Dawn

Thank you. It was an incredibly hard decision, but we think we made the right one.

Glad it worked out!

We had to slowly introduce a stray kitten we took in last year to Ozzie. Wasn't so concerned about Oz, as we were about the kitten, Toby, attacking HIM. The cat likes to push him around and, for the most part, Ozzie tolerates it. He's a good sport and pretty good-natured guy. For the most part, they get along.

I know Ozzie likes so sniff him incessantly which makes the cat crazy, and he will occasionally bat at him. We try to keep after Oz so he doesn't pester him asmuch but I guess Toby found his own way to handle it. Last night, Ozzie was laying on the floor by me and Toby politely came up, sniffed oz and then BIT HIM IN THE FACE. I had to hit him to make him let go!

Sometimes it's just like human siblings ...

Oh wow! I am trying very hard NOT to laugh, but how can you not laugh? I hope Ozzie wasn't hurt too badly!

Thanks again for everyone's support!

Maybe I'm misreading this, but isn't Sugar your original dog that you owned before you got the pup? Wouldn't it make more sense to adopt the pup out to your friend and not the adult dog who is more familiar with your home? So, you're going to rehome Sugar, who has been in countless homes already instead of rehoming the younger dog that hasn't been in countless homes?

I disagree with this move.

Thank you for your honesty, I respect that. Yes, that was part of the discussion. It was a tough decision all the way around.

I thought I put this in the earlier post, but somehow I left it out. One other important piece of information here is that our friend wanted to adopt Sugar and not the puppy. We also didn't ask her. We hadn't even considered it. We knew that Sugar adored her and that we would be available to help if needed. We also consulted with the rescue group where we found Sugar before making any decisions.

We are in the process of signing up for obedience training classes to learn how to be better dog owners. We believe the puppy will learn along with us, but that Sugar needs someone with more knowledge and experience than we have and she needs it now...before it's too late to help her.

I completely understand your position though and respect it. You obviously care about animals very much and are much more knowlegeable than we are. Thank you for the information you gave us.

I would not take any chance's their is a major weight issue, and your puppy could be killed and not so lucky the next time. When you are not supervising both of them I would keep the puppy in an exercise pen, with his food and water potty papers, and a little crate he can get inside if he feels threatened by your other dog. Let them get aquainted through the saftey of the exercise pen. Whenever you leave or can not supervise them, the puppy goes in the pen. That was very aggressive behaveior and very scary for the puppy i am sure.

I raise yorkshire terriers, and I always let the puppies get to know the adults through the protection of the exercise pen. Their are a few adults that i trust them with and I put them in with the puppies along with their mothers and they learn how to be around adults that are not their mom, who they know will not hurt them.

Get the book Cesar's Way by Cesar Millon, it is a great book and has insight on these situations, and comes in handy when you need some good advise.

I hope it all works out. Be sure to always protect your puppy, he can not hold his own against his house mate!

We were doing that...puppy has a playpen and we only let them be together for short, supervised periods of time. Sugar's behavior really seemed to come out of the blue.

If you read the rest of the thread you will see that the situation has been resolved, but I appreciate your input. :)

I also posted a pic of Sugar and an update in the nonyorkie brothers and sisters section. She is doing very well in her new home and we are very glad about that.

We are glad everything worked out!!

I am so happy that everything is working out o.k. and your problems have been resolved.:thumbup: