Yorkies as Earthdogs (working terriers)

[aimee]

Ever since my old girl, Sandy got a gopher in our back yard last week I have realized how stong these little guys' instincts are. I've been thinking about getting Tia involved in this, but have no clue how to go about it, how much it costs, etc. It would be fun though and if nothing else I'd love to watch some Yorkies go to ground!

[bettyeanne]

Originally Posted by yorkipower

Hello There Bouncer and mom:
As you can, I'm in the middle of a "battle" with AKC about Yorkies in earthdog competitions - they wont let them in. Fortunatly, there is the AWTA!

They won't let Yorkies in!?!?! That's insane ... the Yorkie is the earthdog!!!

[yorkipower]

The letter I posted was from AKC. Please see above. They wont let them in. Need more info on ratting competitions from the 19th century. Anyone here good at doing research?

[yorkipower]

Originally Posted by aimee

Ever since my old girl, Sandy got a gopher in our back yard last week I have realized how stong these little guys' instincts are. I've been thinking about getting Tia involved in this, but have no clue how to go about it, how much it costs, etc. It would be fun though and if nothing else I'd love to watch some Yorkies go to ground!

Bit off subject -but bravo on all the wondeful info on your website!

[aimee]

Thanks so much! It's a work in progress - but anything you think is missing, PLEASE let me know

[Emma's Mom]

I would love more information on Earthdog and Agility competitions. My little one is only 4 months, but I would like to start training her. What are the best things to do to start training? What doo Earthdog competitions entail?

[yorkipower]

Hello and welcome to Yorkie Talk.

At four months old, I would start with the basics. I prefer clicker training which is a great way to work with puppies as it teaches them to think and figure things out (important for both agility and earthdog trials!). The first command I’d teach any dog, no matter what the age, is the “attention” or “watch” command. Teaching a dog to hone in on you, solves a lot of problems (puppy eating shoe, owner says “watch,” puppy needs to look up at owner, drops shoe, owner gets shoe from puppy). But it is VITAL for agility that a dog learn to pay attention to his handler and for other dog sports at well (equally vital in competition obedience for example if you decide you’d like to do that). I put up a post, not too long ago, about teaching a hand touch using clicker training (I responded to a question about “what is clicker training”). That’s another good exercise to start with a very young puppy. There’s also a post under Yorkipower concerning training with a target stick. Targets sticks are great tools in training dogs! You can then use this training (watch, hand touch, touching a target stick to teach the come, down, sit, and stay command (read up on these commands because, believe it or not, there is more than one way for a dog to do a down. For agility, for example you want your dog to do the fastest down possible, which would be rolling in from front to back).

If you are serious about getting into dog sports and you are fortunate to start out with a puppy, I can’t recommend this book enough: Building Blocks for Performance. You can get it from http://www.dogwise.com . Another great book for building a performance dog is Susan Garret’s “Ruff Love” available from http://www.cleanrun.com (which is also a wonderful website to learn more about agility). I do not recommend reading “Ruff Love” without understanding the really technical aspects of clicker and motivational training first, however. There are two bibles, that if you are truly committed to getting into dog sports, are a MUST read (although they are very in depth!) The first is The Culture Clash and the second is Don’t Shoot The Dog. A less technical book that reads like an instruction manual for beginners to clicker training is Quick Clicks (this book has a detailed explanation on how to teach the watch command). I believe CleanRun magazine has back issues you can purchase. A few months ago, they did a special feature on training puppies which included teaching a watch command, incorporated into crate training. Go to http://www.cleanrun.com . Thought it was a great article! There were a ton of other tips in there too. Greg Derett has a two video series on foundation training for agility. The first one of the two, is a must have I wish I had existed when I got started. It’s technical too but really lays out what your dog needs to know and be able to do before she can ever see an agility obstacle. On the less technical side, there’s a great new electronic magazine geared specifically towards beginners and people who train agility on their own. It’s called agilityaction magazine http://www.agilityaction.com . You wont be able to start her on obstacles for quite some time as her growth plates must be closed and she needs to develop some attention and mental maturity but you can start working on fundamentals right away. I sell a book from Hobday that will also be of help to you – made especially for puppies (check out the link on my website on agility books). I’m also working on an article right now for the Yorkshire Terrier Magazine about the basics of agility. Hope to get it out soon . http://www.mightymitedoggear.com

From your comment, are you just interested in agility and earthdog or are you just interested in finding out what dog sports are out there that you and your pup could participate in? I have a short list under “Training” under the links page of my site but that’s probably not even complete! Off the top of my head: Agility, Obedience, Rally-O, Carting, Conformation, Tracking, Pet Therapy, Earthdog, Disc Dog, Trick Training . . . .

I am new to earthdog too but if you go to the first few threads on this post, you’ll see info on the American Working Terrier Association and some links to other websites explaining how it is done. Earthdog, interestingly enough, does not involve the intense training that agility does. It is based on your dogs instinct and getting her psyched up about the mouse.

[bettyeanne]

Originally Posted by yorkipower

The letter I posted was from AKC. Please see above. They wont let them in. Need more info on ratting competitions from the 19th century. Anyone here good at doing research?

What do you need ... I am flying home tomorrow and can probably get some done while I'm gone but will be back around the 26th and can devote as much time as you need! Let me know?

[yorkipower]

Thank you!

Funny that your reply comes now because I JUST got an email from Bun's earthdog instructer in my office. Here's some excerpts from her letter. I think she really helped to pinpoint AKC's argument and what it is that we need to demonstrate in order to get their admission (if we still think it makes sense)I've also included my email to her so you have the context:

My letter:
Just following up with you regarding AKC's response to my letter. I did do some research on ratting competitions from the 19th and late 18th century. All I could find out about them is that the objective was to pit two or more terriers against a field of rats and see which one could kill the most. Not exactly what I had in mind. There was reference in that article as in a number of others I have seen that do talk about Yorkies being use for hunting, (Hudderfield Ben was used for "hunting") but all I can find is mention no hard facts. Since Yorkies are the descendants of terriers like the Clydesdale, Broken Coat, and Sky, I do not know how they can say Yorkies were not working terriers. The name "Yorkshire Terrier" was attached to a breed that already existed as the "Scotch Terrier." They were only "improved" in Yorkshire. Surely, the early "prototypes" would have been used for similar purposes as the breeds that went into the creation of the Yorkie breed type. Why else infuse those characteristics? The problem is I can only make inferences because no hard facts exist. How can I prove something without access to any evidence that could support my case?

Parts of her answer:

I adhere to the AKC's policy of opening hunting tests only to breeds which have a history of doing the particular job. In order to support your argument, I would have to have information that shows that Yorkshire Terriers were once used for traditional British earth work.
As Ms. Deithorn mentioned, earthdogs are dogs which go into the burrow of a wild animal and either bay, bolt, or kill it. In the history of England, the three natural quarry of the earthdog were red fox, otter, and badger. In Germany, the dachshund was used on red fox and badger. There was no other earth dwelling quarry that earthdogs pursued. Ferrets were used to go into rat and rabbit burrows in England.

The earthdog trial system was originally developed in Europe to help the hunters educate their hunting earthdogs before they took them hunting. They have been doing this kind of artificial activity for well over 100 years.

In Europe, the tests use red fox for quarry. In some systems, the fox is loose in the tunnels along with the dog. In all systems, the dog must dominate the fox to qualify. In Russia, the quarry is sometimes raccoon dog, which is an animal a little larger than a raccoon. In
Sweden, the quarry is a badger. The tests closely simulate the real situation in order to be valuable to the hunter and to evaluate the dog's potential as an earthdog.

When the tests were developed in the US in the early 70's, the original quarry was woodchuck, but it quickly became laboratory rats. This was due solely to legal considerations and persists as a flaw in the system. Lab rats are not dangerous to a dog and pose no sort of challenge to their safety. A working earthdog needs skills and physical attributes that can't be tested in our system. These qualities are important, because if he doesn't have the correct conformation, intelligence, and courage he will not survive the work.

Many breeds with a history of being ratters are not suited to being earthdogs, either because of their conformation or because of their disinterest in going to ground or marking a motionless quarry. This is natural, and they should be encouraged to be what they are, which is ratters. I have often encouraged people with ratting breeds to develop a test which is suitable for their breeds rather than expecting them to do something which is not their forte. I have even started this concept with my "Ratting for Ratings" test and "Search and Partnership" where the dogs find rats hiding in places that rats would hide. The skills needed for a good ratter are speed, hyper-alertness, flexibility, good nose, good eyes, good ears, strong jaw, high pain threshold, and determination. These are not all the same attributes needed in a good earthdog, so there is reason to celebrate them as unique to the ratting breeds.

When you come here in the spring, I will show you video of dogs ratting and also of dogs going to ground on earth quarry if you want to see them. They are two very different activities and maybe seeing dogs doing these things will help you understand the differences.

Meanwhile, your research into the history of your breed should lead you as far back as possible. The traditional earthdog breeds can be traced back to a time when they were used for pursuing earth quarry in their native countries. With alot of effort, you will be able to do this for Yorkies, too. I found the AKC library in New York to be my best resource when I was researching the breeds for my earthdog book. You would probably find some great information there.

This may entail getting to the AKC library in New York and some hands on research (yeah, between 2 and 4 AM?). From what I have been able to gather, the Yorkie's history is pretty sketchy. It makes sense that a barely illiterate coal miner from Northern England would not have spent much time documenting his breeding program. Yet, we need evidence that traces back as far as we can go as to the history of the Yorkshire Terrier and whether they were used for hunting.

The alternative, is something along the lines my instructer suggests of creating a program where Yorkie's hunting instincts for ratting could be tested. I just wouldn't want this to become a senseless bloodbath like the "ratting pits" of ages past nor would I want something that would put Yorkies in danger of picking up catagious diseases that rats harbor. The best lead I can think of is to do something like what they did for gaze hounds with lure coursing, creating a fake "Bunny."

What do you guys think?

[yorkipower]

We are going to try to create a "ratting" test for Yorkies (not to worry no rats will be harmed!). I am going to meet with the members of the Village Green Earthdog Center on May 1st to discuss this further and see what can be done (this is the brain child of the woman who runs the place, push by the whinning of yours truly regarding the prohibition of Yorkies in AKC earthdog). Will report soon!

If any of you have done earthdog please drop me a line in the Mighty Mite Forum! Would love to hear more!

[Passionfruition]

I live in East Tennessee....any luck for us? Sully is not even 8mo. yet so he's ready to learn as much as he can!

Question - can spayed or neutered yorkies participate?

[yorkipower]

Yorkies may only compete in American Working Terrier Association Earth Dog Trials under the Misc class at this time. Any terrier, regardless of whether it is intact or not, that can fit into a terrier tunnel and meets the guidelines set by the AWTA may compete.

[yorkipower]

We are trying to organize a Yorkie earthdog training day. If you are interested, please respond to this thread. FYI - this would be in the New York Metro Area.

[yorkieagility]

It sounds pretty cool!

[chattiesmom]

I would love to participate in a "working dog class" but alas, there isn't anyone within reasonable driving distance that I feel comfortable with. There is an agility trainer within a couple of miles, but they sound big dog/hard core.....so after reading their literature, I never pursued it.

Sure so wish there was someone experienced with Yorkies close by.....
Now I must go back and read all of the posts between the first and mine.