Aggressive Behavoir

[Morkie4]

Originally Posted by prettypuppypink

Oh I'm not giving up on him yet, paid too much. I might have to move to another bedroom but whatever. I did lead train him in about 5 minutes and he will stop running away from me now with the command, "Sit/Stay". I do give rewards. I just think he was caged and perhaps something else was done to him. He doesn't trust even me after 2 months. I was told by 2 vets to euthanize him but I can't deal with that. I find it hard enough when one of my dogs passes away of natural causes.

So so glad you aren't giving up on him. I found that Yorkies are very very smart and vey quick learners. It's disappointing to say the least but I think with love and patience and determination.......you'll both get through this.

[jrsygal37]

Hi Jessica. How old was your little one when you got him? It sounds as if possibly he may have been mishandled as a pup. My Noel was beaten as a young pup and it took a long long time for her to move on from that. She was the other extreme though. Never aggressive just very very passive. She's now a little over two years old and she is still timid. Some Yorkies are fear biters. Keep working with him, but I'd use gentleness rather then being overly stern. If he's been mishandled, he needs to realize that you're the boss but that he's also safe now. I know that Noel is especially fearful of men. It took over six months before she'd go to my husband, but now she sits on his lap every chance she gets. And, yes you are right I would classify some breeders on the same line as a puppymill. All three of my Yorkies were from a breeder environment but not a good breeder - a breeder on the same lines as a puppymill. Noel was actually sold as a full Yorkie w/ papers and she turned out to be a Yorkie Poo who weighs in at 16 pounds. Newman, is a bigger Yorkie too. He's 12 pounds and has a collapsing trachea, as well as hip trouble and he's nueratic. I would classify him as a fear biter. We've had him ten years, yet if you raise your voice to him or corner him and correct him in a stern voice, he will raise his teeth to you. He's extremely lovable, yet I would not put it past him to bite if he felt threatened and that includes biting me, AND he has NEVER been mishandled. It's just his breeding and his nature. Sometimes if they are closely bred this happens, as in the Labrador Retrievers, a very good natured dog but yet plenty have turned on their owners for no reason. Why? Because a lot of unethical breeders are in it for the $$ and are inbreeding these dogs. Bella, my other Yorkie (I have three Yorkies all together and one Morkie was also from a breeder, however her parents originally came from Shake A Paw Pet store in which they came from a puppymill. Their traits, etc... were passed down to the pups. Bella is the little one I had since five weeks. We bottle fed her and nursed her back to health yet at 10 weeks of age she knew to growl when she didn't like something. It took a lot of work but she's a good girl now, still has some aggressive tendencies but will tolerate being corrected and will back down when she is and I can tell you that I would never in a million years give her up. I always say if I did who the hell would put up with her bitchy ness. LOL. Anyway, just keep working with him and I think that you'll also get more from him with lots of love more then trying to boss. As they say you get more with honey. That's not to say that you don't correct him, it's just saying to correct gently and that will let him know he's safe and loved yet he can't get away with what he does. Elaine

[FirstYorkie]

Originally Posted by prettypuppypink

I was told by 2 vets to euthanize him but I can't deal with .

Oh, please, don't do that! If you do decide you can't handle him, call a Yorkie Rescue organization. They can probably find a placement for him.

[Caesars Mom]

Originally Posted by prettypuppypink

I supposedly bought my Yorkie from a reputable breeder and we discussed temperment,etc. However she was not honest. So I have a huge mistrust of show/breeders now. In retrospect when I read over emails, I see red flags. However, everyone praised her at the time when I posted asking about her. Now, the bad posts came out, so I'm not the only one that was taken, not that me makes me feel better. I think it's really luck on temperment, environment contributes, as well as socializing. Some breeders don't care, it doesn't matter if they have showing or just hobby, depends on their love of the breed or making money only. If a breeder cages her dogs 24/7 is she any better then a puppymill?
I also put my "vicious one" on his back and say, "submit". He does now. The behavoirist got him started on this because he was ready to bite. He bit my husband last night. I doubt if he will be here too much longer. I tolerate more then my husband.
Jessica

We have had a 2 1/2 yr. old rescued male since May. We know that the original owners paid $1600 for him, but we suspect that he was probably from a "puppy mill". He is a jewel! Six weeks ago we got a 3 1/2 year old female from a reputable show/breeder. She is a champion, but had serious difficulty with pregnancy and had to have the undeveloped puppy removed and was spayed so could not be shown anymore. She is gorgeous and a real lover with us. Had serious problems with pure nastiness to our little male when we first got her, but husband did what the dog whisperer recommended and went at her when she came after our little guy. That has stopped and they are getting along beautifully. However, she had now started attacking our 7 year old grandson everytime he walks into the house. She bites his legs (hurt when he had on shorts, but now is into jeans so no current damage). She even did it to his Dad once. However, sometimes if he is sitting down she will let him hold her and everything is fine. We must agree completely with you regarding the possible inbreeding and show/breeders. Our little girl walked in circles when we got her and when I called the breeder she told me that she had been confined most of her life in order to grow and care for her hair. She had had a dental the week before we got her and had lost several teeth which I thought was very unusual for so young a dog. Also, last week she jumped off the bed and broke her front leg both ulna and radius. The vet said that the reason it happened and that her teeth were bad is that show dogs are notoriously kept restricted and don't get enough exercise to make their bones and teeth strong. She says the only thing we can do is keep her on good food and make she she gets plenty of exercise! I know this is long, but I hope that our experience will perhaps be helpful to others. We thought we had really done our homework too.

[prettypuppypink]

Originally Posted by Caesars Mom

We have had a 2 1/2 yr. old rescued male since May. We know that the original owners paid $1600 for him, but we suspect that he was probably from a "puppy mill". He is a jewel! Six weeks ago we got a 3 1/2 year old female from a reputable show/breeder. She is a champion, but had serious difficulty with pregnancy and had to have the undeveloped puppy removed and was spayed so could not be shown anymore. She is gorgeous and a real lover with us. Had serious problems with pure nastiness to our little male when we first got her, but husband did what the dog whisperer recommended and went at her when she came after our little guy. That has stopped and they are getting along beautifully. However, she had now started attacking our 7 year old grandson everytime he walks into the house. She bites his legs (hurt when he had on shorts, but now is into jeans so no current damage). She even did it to his Dad once. However, sometimes if he is sitting down she will let him hold her and everything is fine. We must agree completely with you regarding the possible inbreeding and show/breeders. Our little girl walked in circles when we got her and when I called the breeder she told me that she had been confined most of her life in order to grow and care for her hair. She had had a dental the week before we got her and had lost several teeth which I thought was very unusual for so young a dog. Also, last week she jumped off the bed and broke her front leg both ulna and radius. The vet said that the reason it happened and that her teeth were bad is that show dogs are notoriously kept restricted and don't g et enough exercise to make their bones and teeth strong. She says the only thing we can do is keep her on good food and make she she gets plenty of exercise! I know this is long, but I hope that our experience will perhaps be helpful to others. We thought we had really done our homework too.

I feel for you. My grandchildren aren't allowed to visit as long as I have this Yorkie. One of my grandchildren is autistic and always bonded with my dogs. He's a gentle soul and so are my other two dogs. It's not easy when a situation like this affects one's family life.
You have no idea how I was blasted by a few members when I posted on another thread warning them about this breeder. I feel nothing but contempt for the breeder of this Yorkie. She has done this to others. I wish you good luck, let me know how it goes. I will pm you with anything I learn from the behavoirist.
Jessica

[FirstYorkie]

Originally Posted by prettypuppypink

I also put my "vicious one" on his back and say, "submit". He does now. The behavoirist got him started on this because he was ready to bite. He bit my husband last night. I doubt if he will be here too much longer.

Originally Posted by Caesars Mom

Had serious problems with pure nastiness... but husband did what the dog whisperer recommended and went at her when she came after our little guy. That has stopped and they are getting along beautifully. However, she had now started attacking our 7 year old grandson everytime he walks into the house.

These are 2 good examples of why I am so opposed to the alpha roll (flipping and pinning a dog on his back). It may stop the aggression in a given situation, but the aggression quite often comes back in even less tolerable ways.

I am not alone. From VeterinaryPartner.com:
"Oh, stop that alpha rollover! That is making her more and more defensive! Even the people who originally wrote that book and recommended that maneuver changed their position on it some years later, but unfortunately people keep teaching it, and doing it. It is extremely harmful to the relationship between dog and owner in many cases."

If I'm not mistaken, although Cesar Milan uses this method on his show, he never recommends that owners do it themselves without the dog first being evaluated. I also don't see anywhere on his website where he recommends treating aggression with aggression - ie the alpha roll or acting like you are nipping the dog. Correct me if I am wrong.

Enough about what I wouldn't do. I'll post what I think you should do next (this post is long enough)...

[FirstYorkie]

Where I (and many positive trainers) agree with Milan is in being a leader. Not dominant, but a leader. The leader controls all the resources, establishes the boundaries, protects and cares for his dependants, and yes, projects a "calm, assertive energy". More about how to accomplish these things later.

The first thing to do with an aggressive dog is seek the help of a qualified, positive trainer. Be careful not to use a trainer who is going to use aggression to treat aggression. It has been determined that most, not all but most, aggression in dogs is fear-based. Treating a fearful dog aggressively doesn't reduce his fear. It increases it.

In the meantime while you are looking for a positive trainer, I would implement the NILIF program:

NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE

©1999 Deb McKean

YOU HAVE THE POWER
As the human and as his owner you have control of all things that are wonderful in his life. This is the backbone of the NILIF program. You control all of the resources. Playing, attention, food, walks, going in and out of the door, going for a ride in the car, going to the dog park. Anything and everything that your dog wants comes from you. If he's been getting most of these things for free there is no real reason for him to respect your leadership or your ownership of these things. Again, a timid dog is going to be stressed by this situation, a pushy dog is going to be difficult to handle. Both of them would prefer to have you in charge.

To implement the NILIF program you simply have to have your dog earn his use of your resources. He's hungry? No problem, he simply has to sit before his bowl is put down. He wants to play fetch? Great! He has to "down" before you throw the ball. Want to go for a walk or a ride? He has to sit to get his lead snapped on and has to sit while the front door is opened. He has to sit and wait while the car door is opened and listen for the word (I use "OK") that means "get into the car". When you return he has to wait for the word that means "get out of the car" even if the door is wide open. Don't be too hard on him. He's already learned that he can make all of these decisions on his own. He has a strong history of being in control of when he gets these resources. Enforce the new rules, but keep in mind that he's only doing what he's been
taught to do and he's going to need some time to get the hang of it all.

You're going to have to pay attention to things that you probably haven't noticed before. If you feed your dog from your plate do you just toss him a green bean? No more. He has to earn it. You don't have to use standard obedience commands, any kind of action will do. If your dog knows "shake" or "spin around" or "speak" use those commands. Does your dog sleep on your bed? Teach him that he has to wait for you to say "OK" to get on the bed and he has to get down when you say "off". Teach him to go to his bed, or other designated spot, on command. When he goes to his spot and lays down tell him "stay" and then release him with a treat reward. Having a particular spot where he stays is very helpful for when you have guests or otherwise need him out of the way for a while. It also teaches him that free run of the house is a resource that you control. There are probably many things that your dog sees as valuable resources that I haven't mentioned here.

The NILIF program should not be a long, drawn out process. All you need to do is enforce a simple command before allowing him access to what he wants. Dinner, for example, should be a two or three second encounter that consists of nothing more than saying "sit", then "good dog!", then putting the bowl down and walking away.

ATTENTION AND PLAY
Now that your dog is no longer calling the shots you will have to make an extra effort to provide him with attention and play time. Call him to you, have him "sit" and then lavish him with as much attention as you want. Have him go get his favorite toy and play as long as you both have the energy. The difference is that now you will be the one initiating the attention and beginning the play time. He's going to depend on you now, a lot more than before, to see that he gets what he needs. What he needs most is quality time with you. This would be a good time to enroll in a group obedience class. If his basic obedience is top notch, see about joining an agility class or fly ball team.
NILIF DOES *NOT* MEAN THAT YOU HAVE TO RESTRICT THE AMOUNT OF ATTENTION YOU GIVE TO YOUR DOG. The NILIF concept speaks to who initiates the attention (you!), not the amount of attention. Go ahead and call your dog to you 100 times a day for hugs and kisses!! You can demand his attention, he can no longer demand yours!

Within a day or two your dog will see you in a whole new light and will be eager to learn more. Use this time to teach new things, such as 'roll over' or learn the specific names of different toys.

If you have a shy dog, you'll see a more relaxed dog. There is no longer any reason to worry about much of anything. He now has complete faith in you as his protector and guide. If you have a pushy dog he'll be glad that the fight for leadership is over and his new role is that of devoted and adored pet.

[prettypuppypink]

I wish to thank everyone for their input. You have all contributed something that I will introduce to the training program. This Yorkie is not a calm one and a challange but smart. I not a professional but lead trained him to heel in 5 minutes. A sit/stay was about the same amount of time. It's not a perfect facing me sit/stay but when he's running around the outside of his x-pen and I can't catch him, he follows off lead the command. I don't allow him on my bed anymore because I find this to add to his too many issues. He will give kisses when I ask. I was told alot of things about him before buying him and let's forget about that since none of it was true. He doesn't know how to play. This all takes time and patience. I also have two other dogs but fortunately they are very laid back and "normal" (whatever that means) and I'm able to spend alot of time with this Yorkie
This morning I took him for another walk in the stroller since, he likes outside. He jumps around inside the stroller but there was less agressive behavoir when we passed people or traffic. He's here and I made a committment when buying him and whether he's what I hoped for or not, I'll see it through.
Jessica

[Morkie4]

Originally Posted by prettypuppypink

I wish to thank everyone for their input. You have all contributed something that I will introduce to the training program. This Yorkie is not a calm one and a challange but smart. I not a professional but lead trained him to heel in 5 minutes. A sit/stay was about the same amount of time. It's not a perfect facing me sit/stay but when he's running around the outside of his x-pen and I can't catch him, he follows off lead the command. I don't allow him on my bed anymore because I find this to add to his too many issues. He will give kisses when I ask. I was told alot of things about him before buying him and let's forget about that since none of it was true. He doesn't know how to play. This all takes time and patience. I also have two other dogs but fortunately they are very laid back and "normal" (whatever that means) and I'm able to spend alot of time with this Yorkie
This morning I took him for another walk in the stroller since, he likes outside. He jumps around inside the stroller but there was less agressive behavoir when we passed people or traffic. He's here and I made a committment when buying him and whether he's what I hoped for or not, I'll see it through.
Jessica

Good for you Jessica......I'm sure with your positive attitude and your desire to keep your little "kisser" he will work out in time. Takes a lot of time for us humans to sometimes work out the kinks in our personalities and I think we are a little more intelligent. Yorkies, I found, are extremely smart and very easy to teach. Hope all works out well for you, but I am sure it will!!!

[P-did]

Cesar pretty much preaches a NILIF approach. Most of what he teaches falls within the lines of modern training techniques; there are just a few methods he uses that are considered outdated; but his methods work for him, so his training style can't be completely discredited. There is a reason not every trainer has his/her own show: few trainers have rehabilitated as many dogs, saving them from termination, as Cesar Millan. You don't get your own show, and build a clientele of high-profile clients, without consistently getting results at a greater rate than the vast majority of trainers.

Cesar has helped us out greatly. Although I wouldn't recommend some of the methods he uses with extremely aggressive dogs, repeatedly keeping his core teachings (providing the dog with exercise and leadership) in mind has led us to having a very calm, sociable, and well-behaved dog. Countless others report the same positive results from watching the show.

Trainers who wish they had their own show will always be quick to criticize any move that Cesar makes that does not fall in line with current training-style trend, but we must all remember that Cesar is often dealing with extreme situations that your average trainer has never experienced.

Even if you don't agree with all his theories, there's so much we can all learn from somebody like Cesar, who has natural abilities to communicate with dogs.

For example, he makes a great point about training reinforcement: using verbal praise gets a dog's excitement level up and is not ideal for creating calm and controlled behavior. That's why the clicker is superior, for most dogs, to using a "good boy!" When trying to get a dog to concentrate, don't raise energy levels by showing verbal excitement.

There are countless other useful tricks that we picked up from the show over the first few seasons. So even if you don't agree with the dominance theory, I believe everybody is better off by absorbing Cesar's great understanding of dog psychology.

And although I can see why people disagree with some his psychology tricks, Cesar has possibly saved the lives of millions of dogs by making the public aware of what dogs need to be healthy and stable.

[FirstYorkie]

Originally Posted by P-did

Cesar pretty much preaches a NILIF approach. Most of what he teaches falls within the lines of modern training techniques; there are just a few methods he uses that are considered outdated....

Yes, agreed. Most of his techniques have to do with leadership. But, I hate to see people keep recommending the alpha roll (especially when Milan himself doesn't encourage people to "try this at home").

You don't get your own show, and build a clientele of high-profile clients, without consistently getting results...

Of course being charismatic, comfortable in front of a camera, and good looking don't hurt either!