A new kindler and gentler training method!!! Hi everyone, I wanted to update you on Lexie!! As many of you know, I have had problems with her being aggrseeive and growling and biting randomly at people and dogs. I did major research on trainers and a lot of them used harsh barbaric methods. No way was I letting them touch my baby girl! Yet I knew I had a major problem that had to be dealt with. After much research, I found an area trainer and have had 2 lessons so far. He uses a method called the "Dog Master". It is a unique teaching sound catalyst tuned to the dogs mind alone for mental directions and control. It is sort of like a small piece of jewelrywith a tiny tuning fork that vibrates Yes- I was VERY skeptical- how on earth can this work? HOWEVER- one session made a believer out of me! Lexie did a COMPLETE turnaround. Part of the problem was that she thought SHE had to be in control at all times, which was very stressful on her. It was a MAJOR relief to her when she realized that I WAS the one in control and making the decisions. This trainer had Lexie totally under control WITHOUT ANY PHYSICAL FORCE AND WITHOUT YELLING or even RAISING his voice- it was absolutely the most amazing thing I have ever seen. If I hadn't have seen it with my own eyes I would never have believed this was possible. This works for a multitude of issues from barking to jumping to the aggression issue I have dealt with. I had another lesson tonight and she did AWESOME! I actually had her coming on command and staying with me until I released her- I never thought this was possible with her! Thank GOD!!!! There is hope for my baby!! If anyone is interested in any more info on this, please let me know. I am definately the new DOG MASTER marketing person- this is GREAT! |
I'm really glad that you found something that works for you! I don't know anything about the training method you describe, but positive reinforcement training had the same outcome for Loki. Yes the good old clicks and treats, no "aversives". Also something called the Nothing in Life is Free method, which also makes dogs realize they are not in charge. Sounds like your trainer uses similar methods - just not sure about the tuning fork thing, but hey if he's not yelling or hurting the dog I'm not going to criticize! :D Isn't training fun? We signed up for puppy class over a year ago and just kept taking classes! |
It sounds like the theory is the same as the Dog Whisperers theory concerning misbehavior. That the person has to let the dog know that they are the ones in charge. The method of getting the message across is different. So how does it work, they give one tone for the correct behavior, and a different one for improper behavior? |
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I'm glad that you are happy with how things are going! I must say that I've never heard of this method, but would enjoy hearing more. Is the "tuning fork" used to acknowledge good behavior (& is then followed by a treat) or does the "tuning fork" indicate to the dog that he has done something wrong? How often is the sound used? |
So how does it work, they give one tone for the correct behavior, and a different one for improper behavior?[/QUOTE] The tone is basically just an interruption in the dogs thought process. (the same tone is used for everything) The idea is to distract them away from what they are doing and then PRAISE,PRAISE,PRAISE when you get the desired behavior. Example: Teaching come: 1. "Lexie, Come" (no dog master sound) if she even glances up or her ears perk up, praise! "Good dog, good dog!" If she doesn't come..... 2."Lexie ,Come" (click the dog master in your hand as you say come) again, praise for ANY response!! If she still doesn't come... 3."Lexie, Come" (no dog master sound) if she even glances up or her ears perk up, praise! "Good dog, good dog!" If she still isn't coming.. 4. "Lexie, Come" and toss the dog master at her feet (not throwing it at her- just NEAR her) The timing of this is absolutely CRITICAL- you must have the instrument land just as you are saying "come" The vast majority of dogs will come by this point. Then you move and do it again... and again.... until they automatically follow you. The dog master can also interrupt unwanted behavior by distracting them. If they are barking at the door, you DO NOT SAY NO (as I have done a million times) You click the dog master in your hand , praise them if you get ANY response. If they continue barking you toss it near them and again praise when they stop. I have 4 of these instruments and right now I sometimes have to use a few of them to achieve the desired response.(if I toss one and the barking doesn't stop, then I start over with the sequence) It is amazing how quickly they learn. Lexie actually cowers when she hears the sound. So it absolutely makes an impression on them. She now realizes I am the one in charge NOT her!! I hope I have explained it clearly enough for you to get an idea. Let me know if you have questions! |
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We used a shaker bottle (like a pill bottle with a penny in it) to learn come. They associate the sound with a treat, then with the word COME. These all sound similar to techniques we used in classes but the tuning fork thing is just an odd twist. I am glad it's working but I think it's probably unnecessary. |
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I'm afraid that you are still using an aversive. There are several things you desbribe that I'm not comfortable with. However, as far as aversives go, I guess it's more benign than most. Good luck. |
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I wouldn't tolerate that behavior either. The alternative is not to allow it. We are both just suggesting that it might be an aversive technique. What you are learning is similar to the techniques I've learned in my positive reinforcement training courses, except those techniques wouldn't make the dog cower. The point is not to make them submissive but to make them learn the rules - what behavior is allowed and what is not. I guess what I'm saying is that there might be a similar way to teach her that might not make her cower, that's all. |
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[QUOTE=Erin]I The point is not to make them submissive but to make them learn the rules - what behavior is allowed and what is not. QUOTE] I disagree about making them submissive- I believe that they absolutely need to know that YOU are the leader. By submission, please understand I am not talking about "beating" them and physically or verbally abusing them in any way. It is a frame of mind. And they DO need a leader or else they themselves will take over that leadership role and that is where a lot of issues occur. I can compare it to correcting my child. If he cries or is uncomfortable, should I NOT discipline him? Of course not! We all know it is essential for our kids to grow up into decent human beings. I want my dog to be the same way- so people enjoy being around her!!!!! The bottom line is that I do not feel that there is 1 perfect technique. You have to do what you are comfortable with and what works for your dog, as long as it is not cruel unusual punishment. Not every method works for everyone. |
I understand what submission is. You can be a leader without making your dog submissive. Dominance and Leadership are not the same thing. I understand your comparison and I agree that you shouldn't let your dog behave badly, however children understand reasoning and dogs do not. Dogs don't know how to manipulate, they don't feel guilt, they don't even understand our version of right from wrong. In a dog's mind they are always justified in their actions. They don't have higher reasoning skills. We can only teach them what is allowed and what is not allowed. And by being the leader, you control the resources and set the expectations. I don't believe they need to "submit" to us to follow the rules. |
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out of curosity, what does a dog master look like, or what was used. Where can one find one? I'd love to ask our trainer about this type of training. Jennie |
It looks like a link bracelet with a small fork like charm. The noise it makes sounds different to a dog than to us, due to their hearing range being so much better than ours. This is why this method works so well. The brand name is DOG-MASTER. Mt trainers name is John Maurice and I can get you his phone number if you want to PM me. He will be able to tell you more details and exactly how it works, as well as maybe talk to your trainer. Tonight I had Lexie coming on command without even using it- just by my voice!!! She loves to bark at my rabbit also. Tonight when she started to bark at her, I clinked the bracelet in my hand, and Lexie went away from the cage and stopped barking- it is a miracle!! |
Magneticgal, I'm not going to argue with you. As I said, it sounds much less benign than other aversives. |
PS. I'm sorry that I offended you. |
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Extremely close to barkbusters training Quote:
I just had to say this is extremely close to barkbusters. Their "tone" is a chain that rattles like coins in a can would. It's encased in fabric so they don't know what it is, but it supposed to get their attention and distract them also. Sounds so much like barkbusters. Good luck. Zoie did good bith BB, but after a few weeks we weren't reinforcing it all the time and she thought she was back in control, so, keep doing the things your trainer tells you to, it's so important. :-) Let us know how it continues to go. It's so good to hear your dog reacted so well and you are so relieved! |
She needs help Hey magneticgal, you might want to check out FrannieQ's post. She's having a terrible time with her baby and it sounds like you may have the answer for her. :) :) |
I wanted to post another update, as I have had about 5 training sessions now. I am SO PROUD to say that Lexie now comes on command EVERY time I call, she will STAY until I release her, she no longer attacks my vaccum cleaner, she no longer goes after my bunny rabbit. We are starting to work on people coming to the house so that she doesn't go biserk and attack:eek: . It is a TON of work and consistancy is the key. BUT it is paying off huge for me! If anyone needs any more information on this, please write me. It is a fairly easy method to learn , although you have to practice, practice, practice, it does pay off BIG TIME!! |
Excellent! So glad it's working for you. How's Lexie doing with her aggressiveness? |
Hi!! We are working thorugh one issue at a time. The trainer thinks that her aggressiveness is because she is afraid, which I had never thought of. When I take her into stores, I always carry her. He told me to put her down, that way if someone approaches her, she can back up if she wants. In my arms, there is no where for her to go, so she lashes out to keep them away. Makes sense, but I never thought of it that way. I tried it last night at Pet Supplies Plus, and when approached, she backed up, but did not growl or try to bite.:thumbup: I told the person to stay there and let Lex approach HER. It seemed to work. I am still leery for while and we have a ways to go, but we are making fantastic strides from where we were a month or so ago!! Thanks for asking!! |
Any fear based method is a huge no no for me and that's exactly what this is any way you look at it. For a dog that is strong willed or isn't bothered by much, you'd have no luck. Like I've said in the past, an actual correction and praise-just training a dog w/ a leash and collar isn't for everyone. Call me old fashioned w/ a new twist if you will. ;) But I'm glad you enjoy the results your getting. :thumbup: |
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I am glad to know that your way is obviously the best!! Actually if you want to get "technical" I am doing the correction-praise thing!! Yanking on their collar isn't exactly a nice method in my opinion and THAT is a HUGE no-no for ME!! (collapsed tracheas,herniated discs) Call me medically cautious if you will:) This does not harm them in any way, which I cannot say about your particular method. I am glad your methods work for you. |
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oh boy, i just wish i could make lexi stop barking when i let her on the porch. any help would be greatly appreciated.. shes none stop...thats cause she knows the cats are out there just annoying her |
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