Crate Training?

[poo]

I have read not to put a puppy in a crate when she has done something wrong because she will feel like she is being punished every time she has to go in her crate (I agree). But I have also read that she should be put in a crate for a "time out" when she is getting too rambunctious. Isn't this the same as punishing but just calling it a "time out"? It seems to me like she would still feel like she is being punished.
The reason I am asking is beacuse my 3 1/2 month old Pancake has been regressing a bit with her potty training (I use pads inside for now) and I am considering crate training her. But won't she feel like I am punishing her if I trap her in a small box all day? I don't want her to be sad, but she is still giving me no indication (whining etc.) of when she has to go potty. Except in the mornings: she will whine to get down off the bed to go potty on her pads. Mornings are always good, never an accident - she goes straight to the pads when I let her off the bed. Other than that she gives no indication, she will pee (right beside me sometimes) in any room she feels like. I would love to hear some more opinions on crate training (I know it works) or any alternatives that also have a good success rate. Thanks for any input!

[typerk]

You absolutely have to let go the feeling that she is feeling punished if she is "trapped in a crate all day." Your dog is way too young in my opinion to not be crate trained. I can't stress enough how good crate training is. She is so young that you can actually turn it around immediately.

[Erin]

Time-outs are not punishment unless you yell at your dog and throw them in the crate with no toys. You can't get upset, you just do it to give your dog a few minutes to settle down and figure out they only get attention when they are polite. (Loki even gets a treat when he goes to his crate when asked) Crate training is also completely different than a time out. Crate training prevents bathroom accidents, time-outs are in response to behavior issues. Loki gets a time out when he barks excessively - like when I'm cooking he will bark at the oven or bark at me while I'm cooking. If he starts this up then he gets a time out until I am done cooking. He also does his "demanding" bark which gets him a whole lot of nothing, so we ignore him. If he persists, he gets a time out. He's not in trouble, he just gets too excited sometimes and the crate helps him just chill for a few mins.

[mommyof2]

Okay. I am not an expert. Yogi who is same age as yours (3 1/2 months) is going through the same thing. We have been doing puppy pads, which he was doing good at, as long as he was in a small area. We were leaving him in our half bath when we were gone. But..when he was around the house, he would go anywhere!! Even if a puppy pad was in the same room as him. I think that all the puppy pad was teaching him was to go on "something". He knows go on any area rug in my house, not my hardwood floors.

Okay. Sorry. I'll get to the point. We took him to our vet for his 3 month check up. I talked to him about housebreaking. He said "crate train. if you are consistent, you should be able to get him house broke in 3-4 weeks." Then he mentioned a time-out crate because Yogi has had issues with me touching his ears. He'll snap and since I have kids, I don't want him to do that. He said that (and this is only HIS opinion everyone) but in order for it to work, is to have a totally SEPARATE crate for time outs. One crate for crate training for housebreaking and one for timeouts. He said that Yogi will learn to tell the difference between the two. He said the timeout crate goes somewhere in the house where he can't see or hear anyone, only for a few minutes at a time. If he was put in timeout because he snapped when I was cleaning his ears, then take him out of his timeout and try to clean ears again, if he snaps again, then back in timeout.

I'm not technically using a crate. I had a typical crate for Yogi but he howled and cried so bad. He hated it!! So we went out and got a hard side plastic dog carrier. It's big enough for him to move around in and he likes it!! We are using that one for the crate training. For timeouts, we have another hard side plastic carrier. I've put him in the timeout crate twice. I didn't seclude him like the vet said. It felt mean. I put him in it both times consecutively for snapping when I did his ears. That was it!! Now, he lays on my lap and lets me do whatever to his ears!! And....he has had no negative reaction to his other crate. He is still happy to go in there.

We are still having difficulty with the housetraining but it's not Yogi's fault. I haven't been consistent. We have had two deaths in the family within the past month and have had to travel. We've taken Yogi but with everything going on and him being in these new places, we've put down puppy pads. We didn't think it was fair to try to continue crate training when he was in a new place.
I am hoping that now that things have calmed down, hopefully, we can get back on track!!
Sorry sooooo long!! I get long winded but just wanted to share with you what I was told!
Hope this helps!

[romeos mommy]

romeo would wimper in the crate so i would let him out. i wish i would have crate trained him. when i leave him home alone i put him in my bedroom that has an ajoining room for romeo. he has his wee wee pads and all his stuff. it works, but he's running loose and could get hurt. crates are a safehaven and i wish i would have been more aware of the benefits. he's my first dog. next dog, will be crate trained. happy training!

[MyTrixie143]

For "time outs" don't use the crate. This will only teach your puppy not to like the crate and will confuse her. Do continue with the crate training though, which is used to mainly housebreak her. Instead put her in a room or a corner for time outs but remember to leave her there for only a couple of minutes.

[yorkieskater]

I was going to crate train like I did my last dog. This one came to me sick and well...it's a long story why I decided to not crate train him but he does have a pen area. The housetraining is going "okay". He is stubborn. If he is not in his pen, he is watched like a hawk.
I did read on thepetshow.com some interesting views on crate training. This dog now is comfortable falling asleep anywhere, whereas my last dog was more dependant on his crate. Go to the site and read it.
I am NOT against crate training but did find the article interesting and food for thought.
suzie

[Muireann]

Hello everyone,
I hope you don't mind but I have had a very hard time with Poppy doing her business everywhere but on the paper we have for her at our door that I would really appreciate your expertise.
Firstly, I am reading alot about your crate training and please forgive my stupidity but what exactly is a crate? and where do you put it?
My brother gave me a book called "House Break your Dog in 7 days" but the daily routine for a 6-12month puppy that you need to follow for seven days was rather shocking to me: If you don't mind I would like to write it as I have no one else really to consult and I would appreciate feedback:

General Timetable for 6-12 month old puppies eating 2 meals a day and owner is working during the day.


7.00am Wake up and Go out.
7.10am-7.30am Free period in kitchen
7.30am Food and Water
8.00am Go out. Confine in Crate when owner leaves for day. Leave safe toys and chewies to keep dog entertained. No food or water.
6.00pm Go out.
6.15-7.00pm Free period in kitchen.
7.00pm Food and Water
7.45-8.30pm Confine
11pm Go out. Confine over night.

According to the book if you do this for a week then your puppy should be house broken. Honestly though I think I would have a nervous breakdown. We came from the vet on Saturday as Poppy had a little limp on Friday night and she said that she could have a problem with a loose kneecap. She is so small and I can imagine that she will up on her back legs jumping for hours if she is confined and I would be so afraid of her hurting her wee self.

As the situation stands myself and my boyfriend live in a small two bedroom house. As it has been freezing outside since we had Poppy we decided to "paper train" her and then when the snow left and she got bigger we would take her outside. As such Poppy has the run of the house (except bedrooms and bathroom) and when she had an accident and we got her in the act we said a stern No and lifted her to the paper. If there was an accident that we hadn't seen then we just cleared it away. For the most part she learned to go on the paper and of course we had a party everytime that happened. This week however has been a nightmare and I feel so sad that I just have no clue what to do. She is just 6 months and weighs just under 2lbs and she looks so scared at me when I shout at her when she has an accident but honestly she has been peeing and pooing everywhere but the paper all week.

We both go to work everyday leaving between 8-9am and returning between 4-5pm and one day a week I have a half day. Saturdays and Sundays are just for the three of us. If anyone could give me an idea of how they crate train in a similar situation, I would be absolutely the most grateful person in the world. I apologise for the length of the email and I am sure this is an age old question but if you could spare a moment for an inexperienced yorkie lover in Finland...I would be so happy.

Thank-you very very much.
Kindest Regards,

[MyTrixie143]

[QUOTE=Muireann]Hello everyone,
I hope you don't mind but I have had a very hard time with Poppy doing her business everywhere but on the paper we have for her at our door that I would really appreciate your expertise.
Firstly, I am reading alot about your crate training and please forgive my stupidity but what exactly is a crate? and where do you put it?
My brother gave me a book called "House Break your Dog in 7 days" but the daily routine for a 6-12month puppy that you need to follow for seven days was rather shocking to me: If you don't mind I would like to write it as I have no one else really to consult and I would appreciate feedback:

First of all, a crate is just a dog cage. A carrier or plastic crate is a plastic dog cage that is light weight and you can carry and move easily from one room to another. You can put the crate anywhere you want however I would put it in a the room that you stay in and at night I would put the crate by your bed. Put toys and treats in the crate, and to get your puppy used to the crate I would feed him in it as well. First thing in the morning, let him out of the crate and take him to his place where he is suppose to go potty (outside or puppy pad) give him a command such as go potty or do your business. Watch him and don't let him wonder off of the pad until he has went. At this time, if he does go, give him alot of praise and a special treat. If you have time, let him play for a little bit as an extra reward. Both of my puppies know that if they go when they are suppose to that they will get out to play. If he does not go, put him back in the crate and wait 5 or10 minutes and until you let him out again to give him a chance. Repeat this everytime until he goes, so that he will learn that he has to go potty on the pad before he gets any time out of the crate. Do not let him have the run of the house this will only cause him to go whenhe wants and where he wants to. Once he is housebroken then he will get the privelage of getting the run of the house. Until then when he is out of the crate watch him like a hawk and don't let him out of your site. What you need to figure out is how often does your pup go to the bathroom, how many times a day that he goes pee and poo, this will help you determine how long he can be in or out of the crate. For example, my pup has to be let out every 5 hours to go the bathroom. He goes pee about 5 times and poo about 4 times. So from this I can determine that when I let him out, that he has to go poo and pee before he gets to play because I will know that he is good to go and should not have an "accident". So after I let my pup to go out, and if he goes, he gets a couple hours of playtime and then back in the crate for him to rest. Once they get the hang of it, then you can give them more time out to play and be with you. I hope this helps, you can pm me if you have any questions. Good Luck!!

[poo]

Thanks very much for all of the great advice. It is very useful and I have decided to crate train Pancake. She has always slept with me since I got her and she peed on my bed for the first time a couple days ago .
I go to school part time but am home most of the day. I have been using pads inside because I got her in the winter. Now that it's nice out I was thinking about taking her out to pee. So the question is, if I decided I wanted her to be able to go EITHER IN OR OUT, would it be possible to crate train her by taking her out to pee on the pads sometimes and outside others? Or would this be way to confusing/inconsistent?? I just thought it would be nice that when winter comes again she has the option to go inside. Another quick question When do pups finally let you know when they have to go? Or is my pup lagging? She doesn't tell me and I only know because she starts sniffing... Is there a specific way to train for this, maybe crate training helps in this department.
I hope someone has an answer for this question because I can't find anything anywhere on this. I thought pups would always whine to let you know. Thanks for all the help, I can really put it to good use because I am home all day everyday with my Pancake and hopefully it will work out for us.

[poo]

I fogot to mention that currently when I'm not home, I leave Pancake in her x-pen with her food, pads, toys etc. (and she does go on her pads most often when in her pen). My plan was seeing how I have a 2 week break from school, I would stick to the crate because I would be there to keep an eye on her, but when I have to go back to school I would leave her in her x-pen when I'm gone and then she'd go in the crate when I get in (after play time of course). Would this be too inconsistent? I would be gone from 9-3 for a few weeks, and would rather her be in her pen. Thanks for any help, it's tough being a new mommy, I think I might baby her just a little too much! She's just so sweet!!
Oh and good luck Muireann

[MyTrixie143]

Training your pup to go both on pad and outside is little harder but can be done. You want to make sure that your pup realizes that going on the pad or outside are the only acceptable places to go, not anywhere else. So for this the only thing I can suggest is getting your pup to recognize and obey the go potty command. This way your pup will know that he can go on the pad or outside because you gave him the command that it was alright to do so. As far as crating him for two weeks and then putting him back in his expen, it all depends on how fast your pup picks up on the pad or outside training. The only thing is that if you go back to putting him in the expen after two weeks and he does not go on the pad all of the time, you have to go back to putting him in the crate.
For getting him to be able to tell you when he has to go, everytime right before you put him on the pad or go outside for him to go potty ask himi n a exciting voice "do you have to go out" or "you go to go potty". It will take some time, but if you remember to do this everytime he will pick up on it and when you ask he will be able to give you some sign that he has to go. My one dog when asked if she has to go out, will get excited and run to the door when she has to go out, otherwise she does not do this. My other dog when asked will bark and back up and repeat this until I get up to let her out. So watch for signs that your dog is telling you that he has to go out when you ask him. Good Luck with your training and let us know how things go.

[doggieluv2]

I ask my dogs if they want to go out and they get excited too but I almost think it is because they like to go outside so much that it wouldn't matter if they had to go potty or not they would still act excited. At this time of the year anyway. In January they didn't poke around too much out there.

[Muireann]

Hello there,

Thank-you very much for all this information..it has been very educational. Is it correct to say that you need to be at home in order to crate train? As I wrote, we are working during the day so Poppy is on her own for 8-9 hours...as you say your wee pet goes every 5 hours and so we thought it best to leave her with the run of the home (except bedrooms and bathroom) with paper at the door to pee and poo when she needs and this was working for us apart from the odd accident but not anymore.Should I have her confined to our utility room when we are away but then of course she doesn't have access to the place we want her to go? Should I pen her with that paper inside the pen as well when we are away and then crate train her when I am home?....


Also one thing to mention was the vet told me that she may have a problem with a loose kneecap sp I am scared of my life that if I confine her she is going to jump up and down for hours and really hurt her poor self!!

I am really appreciating your input as we really want to do things right without being cruel in anyway...

Kindest Regards,
Muireann

[typerk]

Originally Posted by Muireann

Hello there,

Thank-you very much for all this information..it has been very educational. Is it correct to say that you need to be at home in order to crate train? As I wrote, we are working during the day so Poppy is on her own for 8-9 hours...as you say your wee pet goes every 5 hours and so we thought it best to leave her with the run of the home (except bedrooms and bathroom) with paper at the door to pee and poo when she needs and this was working for us apart from the odd accident but not anymore.Should I have her confined to our utility room when we are away but then of course she doesn't have access to the place we want her to go? Should I pen her with that paper inside the pen as well when we are away and then crate train her when I am home?....


Also one thing to mention was the vet told me that she may have a problem with a loose kneecap sp I am scared of my life that if I confine her she is going to jump up and down for hours and really hurt her poor self!!

I am really appreciating your input as we really want to do things right without being cruel in anyway...

Kindest Regards,
Muireann

You absolutely don't have to be home to crate train. The crate itself, if small enough, puts dogs in their natural way of being. They won't go where they sleep. And no it's not cruel to have them in the crate that long especially at that age. Your dog is young though so you may come home to accidents in the crate because at that age they have a problem holding it that long. But how your schedule sounds it seems to be the only way. Trust me, he will grow out of going in the crate as he gets older. Just make it small enough for him to turn around and lay down in comfortably. Any bigger than that and it's almost useless.

Also him being in a crate will help his knee a lot more than hurt it. He won't be jumping around because he will be in a crate. How can he? But letting him run around all day he has a better chance of hurting his knee.

Your problems though can be easily fixed with a crate. When you take him out the crate just take him to where you want him to go. If he does go in the crate just clean it up real good. Everytime my dog steps into her litter box she acts like she's trying to avoid land mines. They grow out of wanting to be near any waste, trust me. Good luck.