Need Help With Yorkie Who Attacks Please

[windwalker]

Yes you dog was attacked at one time and for that I am sorry, but to let your dog off lead when he can and does attack others by your own words is irresponsible.

[aladinsane33]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Oh, Rob, I'm so glad you are willing to try to help your sweet guy as so many would just give up on a little guy like this and some, as you know, would surrender him or have him put down! You surely love him to bits and I believe you can take firm but loving charge of him, show him with your firm but matter-of-fact & never scary/frightening training what is unacceptable and acceptable when he meets another dog out on the leash and once that's behind him and he's doing that well, can advance further than that in how to re-socialize him so he can be around dogs in a home setting, after further retraining/re-socializing him there. Those are a whole new set of training sessions.

Even after his re-training in dog socialization, I'd tend to keep a lead on him for quite some time in a home-setting when he's around other dogs until he's gone more than two years without trying to attack and if he can go that long w/out flexing up on another dog, it will show he's likely as predicable as any dog will be around any other dog in any social setting.

No, I'm no behaviorist or anything like that, I've just always worked with helping dogs since I was a teen, foster dogs and otherwise, many of them deeply troubled and learned what different things work to help them from my own experiences over the years, and read just about every book I can get my hands on, in print or audio, about canine behavior. You can, too. Read your local and other cities libraries out of all their canine and canine body-language books and scour your second-hand bookshops for dog behavior /body-language books that are not older than 20 -25 years(older than that they are usually so old-school that they aren't helpful) and you will learn how to help your baby and rehabilitate him. Read all you can about positive-reinforcement training, too. Lots of information is on the internet, too. Let me know if I can help in any way. Jeanie

Keep us updated on how he's coming along, won't you please? And good luck and blessings to you both. Jeanie

I have began his new training regimen today using chicken treats and walking in fast circle should he bark, snarl or take up a belligerent stance with any dog, certainly the swift nipping alpha style showed a result, the look of bemusement on his face said it all. I will indeed persevere with this approach. I will endeavour to keep you appraised of events as and when they begin to unfold, that is of course unless I am banned for having to reply to judge and jury, this as one subscriber has already suggested, that others, who may write in here, may well become. Jeannie, but seriously I really cannot thank you enough. Kind Regards Rob.

[aladinsane33]

Originally Posted by windwalker

Yes you dog was attacked at one time and for that I am sorry, but to let your dog off lead when he can and does attack others by your own words is irresponsible.

Look as I have said [and from your swift reply you certainly have not had time to read the whole discourse], get a grip, read the whole of this talk then make an informed opinion, not one from picking out a few paragraphs. Toby will never be kept on a leash all of his life[how old is he now please] not if I get my way he won't, he has the brains of a four year old would you keep them on a leash, well maybe you would but, my decision isn't it, and I won't, for something that is not of his doing and more importantly not his fault . He poses no threat at all walking with me to my garden that is of course unless he attacks another dog that is off its leash and if I am with him, well you read what I say above, he responds by doing what? Anyway that is that. period.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by aladinsane33

I have began his new training regimen today using chicken treats and walking in fast circle should he bark, snarl or take up a belligerent stance with any dog, certainly the swift nipping alpha style showed a result, the look of bemusement on his face said it all. I will indeed persevere with this approach. I will endeavour to keep you appraised of events as and when they begin to unfold, that is of course unless I am banned for having to reply to judge and jury, this as one subscriber has already suggested, that others, who may write in here, may well become. Jeannie, but seriously I really cannot thank you enough. Kind Regards Rob.

Good for you having the faith in him to start to retrain him how to react normally to passing dogs when out on his public walks. Once you begin to make him change his ways by showing him what is expected and what is possible, he'll in time begin to police himself knowing that you are going to step in and take over when he reacts inappropriately and seeing him start to do that on his own will be your biggest thrill. You'll be so proud.

You'll still have a long, long way to go to really re-train his brain and muscle memory not to always react belligerently to other dogs once the new has worn off the re-training but it will show you that it's possible to reshape a dog's behavior with the right tools, positive reinforcement and never-give-up determination by his owner/guardian. This beginning training of how he reacts to other dogs and always having him on lead out in public will serve to keep him and other dogs safer; and if you see an off-lead dog coming and you have time, the absolutely safest thing to do with a toy dog is just to get them inside to safety as they barely stand a chance against dogs 12 or more times their size.

Keep on reporting on his progress and even his setbacks if you would as I'd love to hear how it's going with him. I have great faith in Rob and Toby!

[aladinsane33]

Originally Posted by windwalker

Yes you dog was attacked at one time and for that I am sorry, but to let your dog off lead when he can and does attack others by your own words is irresponsible.

I have read this quote again just in case I missed anything, what is it your sorry for please, you did not attack Toby, I think what your saying is you empathize with the situation but, sorry, no, what for, nevertheless thank you for your concern.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by aladinsane33

I have began his new training regimen today using chicken treats and walking in fast circle should he bark, snarl or take up a belligerent stance with any dog, certainly the swift nipping alpha style showed a result, the look of bemusement on his face said it all. I will indeed persevere with this approach. I will endeavour to keep you appraised of events as and when they begin to unfold, that is of course unless I am banned for having to reply to judge and jury, this as one subscriber has already suggested, that others, who may write in here, may well become. Jeannie, but seriously I really cannot thank you enough. Kind Regards Rob.

And be sure to cross the street or keep a good distance between your dog and the other dog during rehab training as proximity of a perceived danger to themselves is a great anxiety/fear trigger to most anxious dogs and makes them want to lash out whereas keeping them far away during re-training will decrease the threat in your dog's mind and make focusing on that high-reward food just in front of his nose while walking in fast circles much easier on him.

As he begins to accept the presence of other dogs passing by him at a distance while being distracted by food and fast-walking in those crazy circles, gradually decrease the space between the dogs as rehab training progresses and increase distance again should he flex up on a dog again. Be sure to keep the initial re-training sessions very short in duration.

[aladinsane33]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

And be sure to cross the street or keep a good distance between your dog and the other dog during rehab training as proximity of a perceived danger to themselves is a great anxiety/fear trigger to most anxious dogs and makes them want to lash out whereas keeping them far away during re-training will decrease the threat in your dog's mind and make focusing on that high-reward food just in front of his nose while walking in fast circles much easier on him.

As he begins to accept the presence of other dogs passing by him at a distance while being distracted by food and fast-walking in those crazy circles, gradually decrease the space between the dogs as rehab training progresses and increase distance again should he flex up on a dog again. Be sure to keep the initial re-training sessions very short in duration.

Going great, that was until today when this chap had an Alsatian and a cross Staffordshire bull terrier off the lead and Toby was on his lead, the Alsatian snarled at him, then ran towards him, I intervened [the owner out of sight at that moment] well that was indeed that Toby snarled back and went into a frenzy, this chap berating me, well I'm afraid [as bad as it may be of me] I told him his dog was the assailant not Toby, but to be frank I'm newly settled in this area these past two years, I do not like a lot of the people here for they are belligerent themselves telling me to F off is a charming way to excuse your dog for being off its lead, in most of these instances it is the owner not the dog I blame, you see owners can let big dogs off a lead and know there is little harm will come to them but, this is not so with little dogs. This is an area of scenic beauty and loads of people bring their dogs here to walk them by the sea, many dogs have been injured and killed here, all small dogs, latterly a cross Jack Russell was murdered by two greyhounds, it was in all the local news, but the police stance is, its 'dog on dog'and do nothing. Anyway back to the drawing board so to speak and Toby and I carry on regardless.

[yorkietalkjilly]

Going great? You mean he's been acting more calmly around passing dogs as he focuses on the meat and fast-walking? If that's what you meant, that's wonderful.

You poor thing - no wonder your boy went into full frenzy mode when that huge dog came at you both - he's just begun training and this dog came belligerently into his private space, no doubt with his tail and ears pricked, hackles raised and without any attempted normal greeting of butt-sniffing or friendly signals - just barged up to your little guy. Thank goodness nobody was hurt. Sounds as if not too many people in that area obey leash laws or are afraid of their off-lead dogs hurting others or getting hurt, lost, stolen or run-over by being off leash and just taking off on a whim, as I'm pretty certain few of them are trained to stop and stay in place at the owner's command when off lead.

But it sounds as if things were maybe going great, he was learning not to go ballistic at every dog that passed by, until this episode and you two are still on track and can reset and start out again, this time with some behavior-modification skills having been learned by your little guy so he won't be that hard to get back into his training. Just remember to keep the sessions very, very short, frequent, keep him distracted and at a far distance from the other dog until he's accepting of them being nearby and passing as he's learning that not all of them are going to try to hurt him or you and once you no longer need the distracting chicken or circle-walking and then you can allow him to pass by other dogs more closely.

[shelbysmom]

It appears that leash laws are different in the UK? Correct me if I am wrong? People are allowed to have their trained non aggressive dogs off leash, under their control. If I am correct, that means when your dog (the aggressive one) loses it because a "non aggressive" dog gets in his face, you and your dog are at fault even though yours is on leash. Right or wrong?

If that is the case it sounds like you need ways of dealing with dogs that get in your dogs face and I don't know what is allowed in the UK. I keep a whistle around my neck to scare away intruding dogs and coyotes You may also need to get a muzzle type lead. Again, I don't know your laws. I just did a little research because I was confused about how a person could be mad at you when his dog was the one that was off lead. Sounds like a difficult situation. Wish you the best.

[aladinsane33]

Originally Posted by shelbysmom

It appears that leash laws are different in the UK? Correct me if I am wrong? People are allowed to have their trained non aggressive dogs off leash, under their control. If I am correct, that means when your dog (the aggressive one) loses it because a "non aggressive" dog gets in his face, you and your dog are at fault even though yours is on leash. Right or wrong?

If that is the case it sounds like you need ways of dealing with dogs that get in your dogs face and I don't know what is allowed in the UK. I keep a whistle around my neck to scare away intruding dogs and coyotes You may also need to get a muzzle type lead. Again, I don't know your laws. I just did a little research because I was confused about how a person could be mad at you when his dog was the one that was off lead. Sounds like a difficult situation. Wish you the best.

Wrong in the first instance, anyone is allowed to have their dogs off the leash unless they fall under the dangerous dogs act and are called pit bull types, and who is it that decrees that all dogs belonging their owners are non aggressive, the police say dog attack is dog on dog and will do nothing, if my dog is on a leash I can pull him back, just who then pulls back a dog usually a large one wandering off a leash. Wrong, in England if my dog is on a leash it is deemed as under my control, not so any wandering dog even if Toby attacks it whilst on his leash. Look at the laws regarding dogs needing to be on a leash in public and private places such as parks recreation areas etc


Owners need to know their dogs, sadly in my experience not many do. No muzzle for Toby, do you want me to render him absolutely defenceless, its not happening.no way,no how. Toby until he was two years old was no problem that was until he was attacked, that is not happening again, no way no how.


Toby is not a bad dog , nor I a bad person I am careful where he goes and I am selective where I let him off the lead, but as I have said previously there is always these blind corners , one of which nearly cost my hyper intelligent little Yorkie his life.

[Graneet]

Originally Posted by aladinsane33

Well thank you for taking the time to compose your reply, to my post [that was a mammoth effort] thanks again [phew I here you say].


Ok, I see what your indicating and will indeed try this that you mention, what therapists in the UK call loosely 'distraction therapy.' Historically I have tried many distractions with him, but we do not live in the past, my Yorkie walks with me on or off the lead by my side, rarely in front, he is a wonderfully well trained dog and never until he was two years old following this attack had I, well my daughter actually who owned him then had this trouble. Toby lived with two big dogs and never troubled them or them him.


We walk to my garden allotment and if I can see well ahead of me I let him free from the leash, if he sees another dog I click my fingers twice and call toby 'sit' he does this no problem, and allows me to put his lead on, however should this other dog come past him or near him [even without invading Toby's self space] he will attack it, then I have the explaining to do.


Toby has been to professionals for help, and more than once, it is nearly seven years now that has elapsed since that attack] albeit the common mode of thought is they can do little for him. At one such school they tried training him to do things that were not alien to him insisting I stay away, which I had no problem with, then reporting he was/had no problem with basic training, and disattending other dogs .


No, no problem at all following basic commands, this little Yorkie picks things up so very easily and learns so very quickly but not when it comes to other dogs, despite what therapists assert he attacks them with a ferocity that would maim them and seriously I would never venture to pick him up when in confrontation with another dog, that would, depending on how things progressed, endanger me, as previously,actually this is what I did instinctively when that brute of a dog was roaming ownerless, it then attacked me when I was busy smashing it to an inch of its life to save my little Yorkie, one of the reasons why I would never have a retractable lead again as one forgets in such instances to snap it shut, then of course your tied in knots as Toby tries to evade this other dog chasing him.


He has not been /was not just physically scarred, more than 100 stitches in his back end and rear paws, a torn open nose requiring stitching, a rip across his tummy which endangered his life and needed emergency vetinary intervention but mentally too he is scarred, and hundreds of pounds spent on rehabilitation has not helped this little dog. Is it me, well maybe but he is the same when my wife or son takes him out, and really they have no where near the control of him that I have. Please read my other post[s] thread to see my ethos here in training Toby, even the best trainers who have wrote books have stated that retraining after dog attack is a long and arduous process, they are not kidding. Seriously if I were to give you this little dog, he is a [for want of better wording] a proper Yorkshire terrier [not a toy or miniature tea cup or anything else these breeders bring to the fore], he will teach you things, he finds a way of communicating his wants to you, there is little one needs to assume for Toby, this is notably one of the things absent in all other dogs I have had that endears me to him. It is not what I can teach Toby but rather what he instinctively' intuitively knows [which is the basis of all IQ tests]this is what makes him so clever, so bright a little dog.


On a separate note . These little dogs were ratters, as you probably know they were bred to kill rats in the mills in middle England widely rumoured but not known to be crossed with a Skye and Manchester terrier and inherently it is in their breed to kill rats and despite the different, for want of a better word 'nuances' of their owners buttons bows and the like, Yorkies, true Yorkie terriers cannot be prevented from doing what is innate in their breed, whether the smaller Yorkie type terrier tea cup or whatever will try and kill rats I do not know, but neither do I think these are true Yorkies either. Regards Rob

OH MY GOODNESS poor little guy. No wonder he is ready to attack. My papilon is like that. She wants to play but lets the other dog know whos boss. She ran out of our house after to big dogs a guy was walking. Shes a yapper and it scared them they growelled at her and she came home quick. But now shes afraid and is agressive to. But we got a yorkie and they play together. She comes running to check on him if he makes any unusual sound. But its not changed her agression to other dogs. I might try the chicken training sounds good. Hope the little guy gets better. Drivrs me nuts when people let their big dogs loose. Then say oh they wont bite . Sometimes yes and sometimes no. Unfortunately now my yorky fusses at other dogs to.

[aladinsane33]

Originally Posted by Graneet

OH MY GOODNESS poor little guy. No wonder he is ready to attack. My papilon is like that. She wants to play but lets the other dog know whos boss. She ran out of our house after to big dogs a guy was walking. Shes a yapper and it scared them they growelled at her and she came home quick. But now shes afraid and is agressive to. But we got a yorkie and they play together. She comes running to check on him if he makes any unusual sound. But its not changed her agression to other dogs. I might try the chicken training sounds good. Hope the little guy gets better. Drivrs me nuts when people let their big dogs loose. Then say oh they wont bite . Sometimes yes and sometimes no. Unfortunately now my yorky fusses at other dogs to.

Well thank you for your kind comment, and mentioning another dog in the same household, actually I visited a dog pound [where they have rescue dogs] and was going to buy one for Toby to socialize with,I spent hours introducing Toby to this little cross Yorkie name of Daisy but, sadly he would not socialize with her, and so I had to admit defeat, better than getting her first and then having to re-home her, for Toby would [even though he is neutered try to maim her. I know this from experience, sad as it is, and this little dog Daisy would have had a very good home but I had to leave her and it was very depressing at that, because I, but not Toby, unfortunately, was beginning to bond with her.

[aladinsane33]

Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly

Going great? You mean he's been acting more calmly around passing dogs as he focuses on the meat and fast-walking? If that's what you meant, that's wonderful.

You poor thing - no wonder your boy went into full frenzy mode when that huge dog came at you both - he's just begun training and this dog came belligerently into his private space, no doubt with his tail and ears pricked, hackles raised and without any attempted normal greeting of butt-sniffing or friendly signals - just barged up to your little guy. Thank goodness nobody was hurt. Sounds as if not too many people in that area obey leash laws or are afraid of their off-lead dogs hurting others or getting hurt, lost, stolen or run-over by being off leash and just taking off on a whim, as I'm pretty certain few of them are trained to stop and stay in place at the owner's command when off lead and as you say their dog does not either understand or obey the owners command, this incidentally is not true with Toby who [as long as there is no perceived threat would sit at first command, lie down with one gesticulation from me and roll over of his own accord, bring in a perceived threat and it all goes to the wall.

But it sounds as if things were maybe going great, he was learning not to go ballistic at every dog that passed by, until this episode and you two are still on track and can reset and start out again, this time with some behavior-modification skills having been learned by your little guy so he won't be that hard to get back into his training. Just remember to keep the sessions very, very short, frequent, keep him distracted and at a far distance from the other dog until he's accepting of them being nearby and passing as he's learning that not all of them are going to try to hurt him or you and once you no longer need the distracting chicken or circle-walking and then you can allow him to pass by other dogs more closely.

Toby was learning at a fast pace, as he picks these things up very quickly, nothing to do now but to go back to base one and start again, I have bought him some treats designed especially for dogs in training[or so the packet says] he loves them but, seriously I only give them as a reward for correct responses and accompanying good behaviour. You talk about owners and leash laws, seems you know about these and your right in what you say and imply,absolutely right, not many of these dogs and they are nearly always big dogs that are off a leash are under correct control. I have found that most owners will shout harshly at their dog to regain control of it when it is off a leash and venturing to attack another dog

[aladinsane33]

In the English press, on the internet, twitter, facebook and other social websites is a report that two English bull terriers attacked their owner, one tore his limb from his shoulder. This emphasizes the danger some of these bigger dogs pose, this man lies unconscious in hospital waiting to have his arm sewn back on[that is if it is possible]. I wonder what would have happened to my Toby my little Yorkie had I not intervened, and mindful that this intervention was a titanic struggle what indeed would have happened to me had there been two.Poses the question should this breed be put on the dangerous dogs list, well the jury is out on this at the moment but considering the horrors that I and my little dog endured, particularly my little dog, I definitely think it should although I am sure many English bull terrier owners will indeed attest otherwise .

[smelcerk]

This is not my thread but I just have to say thank you to yorkietalkjilly for taking the time to post all this wonderful advice. I am learning so much.