Doggie doors are the devil!

[Sdowns8302]

Hello! This is my first time here, so I'm unsure if I am even posting in the correct forum thread....I have a little (4 pound), 9 mo old Yorkie female (Pippa). She LOVES being outside, and we have a very large, privacy fenced yard. However, she is terrified of the doggie door and so we are having great difficulty potty training. We also have a Lhasa, Phoebe (10 mo), a mini long haired dauschund, Izzy ( 6 yrs) and an ancient Border Collie, Roxie (13 yrs). Phoebe and Pippa are crated at night as neither seem to be able to behave. They go out first thing and have no potty issues. We cannot use potty pads as Phoebe is infused with the devil and will shred ANYTHING, we have had to clear all side tables. Everyone uses the doggie door except Pip. She will go through if we block it open, but oh the bugs! We have tried treats, pushing her through, calling the other dogs through to show her there are no dragons...even poor old cattle dog, Roxie can't herd her through it! She acts like she wants to go through, but she's just too afraid. Initially I think her size kept her from getting it open, but she could do it now. She has water available all the time, but doesn't drink even as often as I think she would need to. She is fed separate from the other critters and on a schedule. I take her out at least once an hour. She will potty outside and will go on command before bed. BUT throughout the day she pees just wherever...it's like she doesn't even pause walking! If she's asleep, I take her out immediately when she wakes...she goes, I praise. She also insists on pooping behind my couch. We thought perhaps the other dogs weren't leaving her alone to do her business, so we took her out alone...didn't matter. We thought maybe there were too many smells in the yard, took her out of the fence...nope. With colder weather coming she won't be able to play outside a great portion of the day so it's bound to get worse! She has no problem holding in the car. She also has no problem holding if we are visiting as she doesn't like to potty in unfamiliar places, apparently. Oh! Also tried diapers, but her handy sister, Phoebe takes them off for her!! HELP!

[pink66]

I have heard from different sources that doggie doors are very unsafe. Small dogs have been killed trying to use them. I hate to be the bearer of more bad news, but most vets also recommend never letting pets under 10 pounds outside without a person right there with them. Even in a fenced yard there are too many dangers for a pup like a Yorkie-other animals, birds of prey, not to mention thieves.
We have a great backyard with privacy fence all around-the yard was a big consideration when we bought it because we wanted something our pups would love. For our 90 pound lab mix its great, but our Yorkie doesn't go outside unless she's wearing her harness with a long leash and a person right there at all times.
It can be easy to forget how very fragile these babies are.

[Sdowns8302]

Really? Wow. I never imagined the doggie door could harm her. I can't even dream of a scenario where it could. I will have to do some info gathering on this, thank you.
As far as them going out alone, obviously, Pippa doesn't at this point. But we have a 7 ft fence, no neighbors and are about 50 yards from the only road by our house. Not to mention, with 4 dogs, you aren't getting in the fence without them letting us know you're here and Roxie wouldn't let them in anyway. No one ever wants to go outside after dark and so we always go along and have to call them out and I do worry about owls at night. However, I don't agree with tethering them every time they go out. They love to run and play and chase the cats ( who chase them back), and bugs. They have their own chairs outside and they like to lay in the sunshine...I prefer shade, so that will never work . I can't imagine how unhappy they would be to have a yard to play in and be unable to do so. They take their toys outside, then back in. They hide toys from each other. These are our furbabies...our children. My human boys are grown but I would have never tied them up every time they went outside. I thank you for the info and I will def check out the doggie door thing.

[Yorkiemom1]

Pippa, even at this very young age, knows how dangerous it can be, having access to the back yard, thru a doggie door, unsupervised! Predators abound in your back yard and circling in the sky above....Pippa knows she could be stolen from the back yard by a human that is aware she is out there, easy pickings.....Yorkies are very frequently stolen from back yards! There are snakes that can get into the back yard, and there are coyotes, raccoons, possums, that can dig UNDER the fence, creating a tunnel that any of the small dogs can scoot out of the back yard. There are hawks and owls and eagles and other predator birds that are constantly hunting....Yorkies look like small rabbits from the sky, and these predators respond appropriately. There are alot of breeders that will not even sell a puppy to a family that has a doggie door, simply because allowing your Yorkie to venture out into the yard, unsupervised, would be like allowing your 1 year old toddler unsupervised access to the yard.....you are asking for trouble doing it, and should not be surprised or dismayed if/when tragedy strikes.

[Sdowns8302]

No, I understand that. But that doesn't fit the problem. She doesn't have issues with going out alone. At times I may open the door, let her out, then realize I wanted my ipad to sit outside awhile. Maybe I will go in and change laundry out...or cook dinner. I try to call her in, but she doesn't want in, she is playing. And she won't use it to go in either. I would think if she were afraid of dangers outside she would use the doggie door quickly to return to the safety of indoors. But, I guess I didn't really articulate my problem well. I don't care if she doesn't want to ever use a doggie door. Roxie doesn't like to use it, but will if she has to. The problem is house training. I only related the doggie door as a big problem because as I read through before posting I saw several replies to other house training posts that advised people to install one. 98% of the time there is someone here. Unless I am going to get groceries, I take Pippa with me. She goes to my studio, to work. We live in a small town, people know her and ask if she isn't with me. So the issue is our inability to train her to not potty in the house. Thank you for the reply :-)

[yorkietalkjilly]

This is a tough one and will take some intense retraining and untraining of a bad habit. It won't be pretty for a while and it will be hard and take patience but you can retrain her with work and persistence as you retrain her body and brain how to pee properly. Here are some thoughts on how I might do it and what I've used in the past on this type problem in a rescue dog.

No doubt you'll have to confine her during the day to a small pen/crate situation where she stays for a time in an area too small to comfortably pee in but one that has access to potty pads next to her bed. Keep her in that for 30 minutes to help her build up the ability to hold it and not want to soil her bed and then take her outside. If she goes when outside, treat/praise her absolutely lavishly and bring her back inside for a short period of play and/or training and then quickly into her confinement for 30 minutes and then back outside. If she doesn't go when outside, I'd just bring her back in and put her back in confinement for the next 30 and then back outside. I'd keep this up for a full two weeks so that she has VERY little access to being able to just walk along and pee but will begin to acclimate her brain/body to the fact that she will be allowed to relieve herself outside every 30 minutes NO MATTER WHAT. You've got to get that notion out of her head that she is free to potty just anywhere so removing her ability to do it anywhere for a good while as you are introducing her to new program of confinement to encourage her holding it and then outside and eventually within that two-week span she should begin to be able to get the message that she's to hold it in the house in confinement because after all, she's going to be given access to outside in such a short time that it's easy to hold it for a while. She may soil her bed or pad during that time but she's learning so don't be upset. Keep to the same schedule and read below about how to react when she has an inside accident, even on her bed/pad or out in the house.

Once she can hold it successfully in confinement for 30 minutes at a time all day long for two weeks, confine her for 45 minutes and then an hour at a time. You are teaching her body how to accept and deal with holding her urine by keeping her confined to just her bed area with a small area beside it to pee/pooh if she just HAS to right then, but if she's going out every 30 - 45 minutes to eventually every hour, she will learn to hold it as most dog don't want to soil their bed or even that potty pad so near to where they are confined, especially IF they have the certain knowledge that within 30 - 45 - 60 minutes as you work out the program, she can count on being taken outside like clockwork. Eventually the idea will begin to get into her head - hey, I can hold it and wait and then I get to go outside so often it's no biggie.

So be sure that after a couple of weeks if she's had no accidents in the house, you can begin to lengthen her time in confinement to help her build up tolerance to holding her urine in your house so she learns how to do it there and then get her outside in 45 - 60 minutes as she holds it longer. Treat and praise her absolutely lavishly when she goes outside. I mean look her in the eyes and thrill over what she's achieving and let her know you are VERY proud of her. Then, as she holds it longer in confinement, goes outside, she can have longer out in the house but here's the thing. YOU WILL HAVE TO WATCH HER LIKE A HAWK the entire time she's out and about. One accident of pee-walking and you are back where you started at this point almost so you must watch her constantly for signs of peeing and I promise you they do show signs before even when they walk and pee. She likely becomes somewhat focused and excited, begins to look at the door to outside, the floor or walk about deliberately in one area or something such as sniffing the floor or going in circles a bit. Dogs about to pee are usually to some degree scoping out where they are about to go as peeing is a big deal to most dogs and they place their urine and scent quite deliberately given half the chance. So learn her signs. If you have to keep the other dogs out of the room during this time, so be it. They could be interfering with her ability to concentrate and focus on her housebreaking efforts anyway. It's harsh but you need some type of emergency fix here for a while and I would isolate her to the area where I was and keep the other dogs away while she is out and about for the most part so you can focus on her. If she starts showing signs, say the words "Do you need to go potty?" and take her outside. If she doesn't go then but showed signs in the house, bring her back and put her in confinement very matter-of-factly (never act disappointed or upset with her because she didn't go) and watch her while she's in confinement and see what she does. If she goes on the pad next to the bed, she's still learning and try not to see this as a big setback but just keep on with your program. If she holds it until her next 30, 45 or 60 minute period it up, GREAT!!! You are getting there. She showed signs of needing to pee, you took her out but she, for whatever reason, didn't go but you brought her back inside, confined her AND SHE HELD IT. This is training her bladder not to go in your house and this feeling can be transferred to how she should act when she out free in the house with more training.

During the intense time of retraining, if you have to talk on the phone, work on the computer or leave the room, confine her and don't set her up to fail by leaving her unwatched in the room. You must do everything you can to stop accidents during this next two months to break her of this bad habit. She's learned that it's acceptable or thinks it is so total retraining is required.

Continued Next Post ------

[yorkietalkjilly]

As she builds up learning to hold it and you learn to look for and read her body signals to peeing with the other dogs absent from the room, you can leave her out longer and longer but increase the time back in confinement as she learns to hold it. If she's holding it over an hour in confinement, you can switch her confinement to a larger crate/pen and given her some more free space to move about in while confined with an area to one side where her potty pads are in case she reverts to old ways.

After she is holding her urine for four hours in confinement, you are on your way and can start to allow less time in confinement if you are home but you must always watch her when out and about free in the house for a couple of years. Sorry but that is the way it is now that she has formed this pee-walking habit. She'll have to be watched closely for a long time when out in the house - just a fact of life now. And of course she will have accidents during all of this but don't let that deter you. Just stay patient and know that with her gradual confinement and still-frequent outside visits all during the day when you are home, she will be getting the message, training her brain/bladder and her thinking to what is acceptable and what is not.

Early on in the re-training, when she does pee in the house, don't raise a big fuss at all. You are training her mind and body with everything you do around her during this time so she's looking to you to lead. Getting upset over finding pee inside the house will do a lot of harm and just make her think she should never pee, possibly making it hard to even pee outside. She won't necessarily know they you are just upset WHERE she peed but will just see that peeing upsets you and dogs can remember this outside and get scared to even pee out there. In time, once she's into the new program for months and is fairly successful at it, by then if she pees out in the house by accident, now you can begin to say "uh oh" when she has an accident, whether observed or you happen onto a puddle and she's no where around. Say "uh oh" in your trainer's voice(not mad/upset) if you see her doing it, say "Pee-pee outside" and take her out and leave her for a while to get the association into her head that outside is where she should do it and bring her back in and put her into confinement on your schedule. If you don't see the act but find a puddle, I would get her, bring her to it very matter-of-factly and not in an upset way at all and in your best teacher's calm voice, show it to her and say "uh oh" and then "Pee-pee outside" and take her out and leave her for a while to get the association into her head that outside is where she should have done it. Then back inside/into confinement for however long her present schedule requires. Staying calm and just teaching her through her accidents will, together with teaching her to hold her urine when in confinement, will slowly start to teach her how to hold it in your house and she will eventually transfer that ability and knowledge to how to hold it when she's out in the house, knowing that pretty soon she can count on being taken outside on her schedule. And make no mistake about it, dogs are schedule oriented and begin to know when it's getting to be time to pee, potty, eat, potty play, potty, sleep, potty, walk, potty, play, or train, potty, play games, potty, and watch TV, potty, go to bed, potty. They get schedules and quickly learn to abide by them if you keep to it with great regularity.

After she's holding it 4 hours plus and her confinement is way down, her observed time out in the house way up and she's not having accidents, you are on your way. But, truthfully, with the other dogs in your house and her history, it will likely take about two years of watching, confinement, re-starting the intense confinement/frequent-outside schedule and such for her to get re-trained completely so that she is fully trustworthy but she can do it. I've had hopeless seeming dogs like this that just peed at will anytime and walk-peed but an intense schedule of confinement gradually building up and then back down as she gets control and learns will actually work and she can become clean in the house. But it takes a long time of being diligently and just infinitely patient and staying in teacher/trainer mode the whole time. She's mixed up in her messages about when and where to potty now but after a good re-training program, she will begin to learn what you really want and your pride in her learning this will start to feed her rewards center in her brain and that's what will get her to success - learning what you want and how to please you and then she'll work hard to keep that magic going with you. Dogs truly are happiest when they get our intensely happy feedback and know that we are proud of them.

[Sdowns8302]

Additionally, after living here 32 years, we have never found a raccoon, oppossum, or other foreign critter in our yard. They may come at night, but she isn't out there at night. We also have cement around the permiter of or fence, so no tunneling. And for a bird of prey to come into the yard for food would be exceptionally rare. We have patio furniture, a garage, a carport, etc. They wouldn't enter a yard with so many objects as they wouldn't feel safe. They have no way of knowing if the hammock is a threat. If Pip inherently is aware she may be prey, it stands to reason other creatures would as well.

[yorkietalkjilly]

P. S. You likely have to leave the doggie door training for a while until she is able to hold herself and no longer pee-walking. Then you can start to train on how not to fear or be anxious going through the door.

[Sdowns8302]

Yorkietalkjilly, thank you! I have been doing all of this, except confining her. I will certainly give it a go! She has been improving. She will, quite often, go to the door when she wants out. But it's just a few seconds, so if you blink...so I think she is starting to get the idea. I just really wanted to get her going before it became cold. Maybe, hopefully, since she is starting to understand, it will be a smooth ride . I understand accidents, it's the frustration of when they seem to actually go INSIDE to potty that is so aggravating! She has a doggie playpen. i will place it in the room i am in so i can keep an eye on her better and watch for signs. Wait....should i not remove her to go outside if she shows signs? should i leave her the whole 30 to teach her to hold it?
Again, thank you for the helpful advice.

[Sdowns8302]

Ok, will do

[Sdowns8302]

My first response didn't post...so if it shows later, sorry.
I am doing all of these except confining her. But I'm excited to try. She does go to the door now but it's so quick...just a pass and slight hesitation, so if you blink...but I think she is starting to understand so I hope with your advice we can get it conquered! She has a doggie playpen. Should I place it in the room I'm in and watch for signs and take her out? Or should I make her wait the whole 30 to train her to hold it??

Thank you so much for the advice!

[yorkietalkjilly]

Originally Posted by Sdowns8302

My first response didn't post...so if it shows later, sorry.
I am doing all of these except confining her. But I'm excited to try. She does go to the door now but it's so quick...just a pass and slight hesitation, so if you blink...but I think she is starting to understand so I hope with your advice we can get it conquered! She has a doggie playpen. Should I place it in the room I'm in and watch for signs and take her out? Or should I make her wait the whole 30 to train her to hold it??

Thank you so much for the advice!

Yes, put it where you are and watch for her to show signs of sniffing, focusing and wanting to go outside, not just parlaying to get out of confinement. I'd take her out first sign UNLESS you find out she's fibbing and just playing you. In that case, I'd start just telling her to "Wait" and give her something to chew on, a toy or used dryer sheet, something interesting to play with to keep her busy until the 30 minutes is up. Yes, she WILL poop in there so cover all of the pen she can walk on in a pad with her bed right next to it and put big boxes in two corners to cut down the space to kind of keep her right in her bed plus just room for one pad for those first two weeks. She won't be living full time in there so that tiny space won't be so bad but, you'll have to face it, she will need to be in there a darn good deal of the time this first 2 weeks to get her in confinement and learning how unpleasant it is when she pees/poops her bed or tiny space, which will encourage her holding her urine and even her poop. She will whine and politic you to get out. She will fib to you. Be prepared and wear your patience like a shield. In time she'll come to accept she has to be there for a short while then she'll quickly learn she gets to go out real soon, also! Let her have her accidents so she knows how bad it is to do that and have to live around it for a short time but then clean it up so she won't get used to it and accept it or like it(!) and after she's learned to hold herself and has an accident, you can even use the "uh oh" when you see it and take her outside to start to teach her "uh oh" is not as good as the going outside with the treats and happy praise and pride that goes with going outside.

Again, want to stress this, confinement is your key to teaching her body how to hold her urine and poop AND prevent her from continuing her old ways, breaking the old habits, but it takes time at first so the taking her out on that regular 2 week 30 min. schedule will sure mark it in her brain as a pattern quickly that she's on a regular schedule to look forward to. And those accidents in confinement do work to help teach her that she needs to hold it so don't be too discouraged by them.

Going outside is actually a dog's natural first choice. It's genetically programmed in them to want to go outside and once they learn that outside their scent is telegraphed to the whole neighborhood and all can "appreciate" it, she will hold herself to get out there to send her message of urine and poop scent to the masses! lol. No kidding - dogs love to mark their space outside and leave their scent once they learn the concept of sending a scent message!

[Lovetodream88]

No dog under 10 pounds should ever have access to a doggy door they are far to small and can be a meal for a bird or really anything they can also get hurt pretty easily. I have a doggy door but my yorkie is over 16 pounds and our fence is brand new smack in the middle of three acres with no woods or tress around. No coyotes or bears either. Potty training is hard and until there fully potty trained they should have only a small area to be in like a play pen. Also try giving a treat when she she goes potty in the right place. Sometimes taking the poo and putting it where you want her to go can also help. If you see her going potty in the house tell her no.

[Sdowns8302]

Thank you everyone for the help. I've got the doggie playpen ready. She is sleeping in the bed next to me while I'm working. But as soon as she wakes up, and returns from her business outside, she's going in!