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-   General Training Questions (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-training-questions/)
-   -   Cesar Millan "Showdown" with Holly (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-training-questions/253414-cesar-millan-showdown-holly.html)

gracielove 10-19-2012 11:08 AM
I have never watched a lot of his shows but the ones I did see were early on in the series. He always seemed to be able to get to a dog without using physical punishment or verbal abuse as most owners would. I agree with his idea of making the mind move forward when there is an issue of fear or compulsion. I have never seen such stupidity and all out disrespect for a dog as is seen in that video. Did they actually put that clip on national television? Seems like that would be enough to rate a cancellation.

chachi 10-19-2012 11:15 AM
I use casear however I felt alot of his methods were for more larger dogs so I stopped.

concretegurl 10-19-2012 11:48 AM
His specific area of training is with pit bulls, they do IMO require a specialty method, howver he blends pit methods with many basic general methods and applies it to many dog breeds.

I know a lot of trainers and behavioralist just despise him because of this and how pipular he is spreading his way to others.

Another new member here just talked about using his method and now the are using a collar to leash train their yorkie...so sad.

I prefer Victoria Stilwell but disagree with her opinion on dog cloths.

I now see Cesar as doing more harm than good honestly, he's no dog whisperer, he uses a lot of old style training methods and only gained fame because he caitored to the famous and wealthy, not because he actually worked with rehabilitating so call untrainable dogs as his show blogs and books claim.

gracielove 10-19-2012 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherie6446 (Post 4037010)
I have read all of your comments. I was a faithful watcher for several years but when he moved to a different channel I lost interest. I have always been afraid of food aggressive dogs. When that lab first growled and showed it's teeth I really tensed up. For the rest of the video I was very stressed and tense. I saw him kick the dog when she bite and clung on to his hand - what else could he do to release the bite? I would have kicked too but then I wouldn't be in that dog's face. They have a child in the house with that dog - the dog would have to go.
I think what bothers me is that he challenged the dog in a very aggressive manner. He knew he was starting a fight. I think he thought the dog would back down but it didn't so it left him open to attack. He asked for it. You can't be aggressive to a dog with a problem like that and expect that the animal is always going to back down. I have seen him work with aggressive dogs before but never saw him be so physically challenging and aggressive with an dog. He was actually behaving like a bully dog! Not smart
I think he started out with Pit Bulls and Rottweilers. Either way I think his fame has gone to his head.

concretegurl 10-19-2012 12:02 PM
Do I blame him for kicking at the dog....honestly no.

When we get attacked we react, sometimes in a way we would not choose to but our brain says SURVIVE DEFEND OR FLEE.

I blame him for the situation resulting in a bite.
As others abd he said numerous signs the dog gave, the dog never got out of defend mode, heck I saw yhe bite coming!

yorkietalkjilly 10-19-2012 12:25 PM
Truly, almost any alpha-acting new person who is self-confident, unemotional, and has ways new and novel to the dog can walk into a situation and get a dog's attention and usually their respect, getting them to behave and submit better than usually-tense, worried owners who are less than strong leaders, despite what the trainers' methods are. Dogs are such great responders and "team players", most will almost gladly try to react appropriately and please accordingly, grateful for a different approach by anyone, as usually their situation is pretty tense and worrisome to them.

The majority of misbehaving dogs would love to find a way out of it their problem as long as the trainer keeps things positive & sets the dog up for success, even though the process of changing ways can be a bit unsettling to some dogs. But even those dogs that feel tense & unsure as the new training beings usually don't react as Holly did unless the trainer is using only the harshest and most overbearing of training methods.

gracielove 10-19-2012 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yorkietalkjilly (Post 4037057)
Truly, almost any alpha-acting new person who is self-confident, unemotional, and has ways new and novel to the dog can walk into a situation and get a dog's attention and usually their respect, getting them to behave and submit better than usually-tense, worried owners who are less than strong leaders, despite what the trainers' methods are. Dogs are such great responders and "team players", most will almost gladly try to react appropriately and please accordingly, grateful for a different approach by anyone, as usually their situation is pretty tense and worrisome to them.

The majority of misbehaving dogs would love to find a way out of it their problem as long as the trainer keeps things positive & sets the dog up for success, even though the process of changing ways can be a bit unsettling to some dogs. But even those dogs that feel tense & unsure as the new training beings usually don't react as Holly did unless the trainer is using only the harshest and most overbearing of training methods.
I agree. It looked like she was waiting to be hit or kicked. She just decided to get the first bite in this time since she was unsure of this guy that was challenging her. Someone should rescue that poor dog.

Buster Brown 10-19-2012 01:22 PM
This is from an article in 2009. The video link is no longer valid
"I do not watch much television, and haven't seen a full episode of The Dog Whisperer. A few days ago, I received an email from a veterinarian specializing in animal behavior, urging me to watch this Dog Whisperer video clip. I admit, it was a difficult video to watch. In this video, Cesar Millan uses a choke collar to subdue an aggressive dog, finally pinning it on the ground. Millan is bit several times in the process, and I question the health of the dog during this clip (blue tongue). Debra F. Horwitz, DVM, DACVB, a board-certified veterinary behaviorist, offers her commentary of the video here: dog training gone bad."

yorkietalkjilly 10-19-2012 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster Brown (Post 4037084)
This is from an article in 2009. The video link is no longer valid
"I do not watch much television, and haven't seen a full episode of The Dog Whisperer. A few days ago, I received an email from a veterinarian specializing in animal behavior, urging me to watch this Dog Whisperer video clip. I admit, it was a difficult video to watch. In this video, Cesar Millan uses a choke collar to subdue an aggressive dog, finally pinning it on the ground. Millan is bit several times in the process, and I question the health of the dog during this clip (blue tongue). Debra F. Horwitz, DVM, DACVB, a board-certified veterinary behaviorist, offers her commentary of the video here: dog training gone bad."
Poor dog and so unnecessary. There are much more kind, positive ways of achieving the same things, ways that are fun for the dog and where he doesn't have to bite to defend himself, further traumatizing him and the owner, if the owner is the one trying this method and gets bitten by his own dog.

msyorktown 10-19-2012 02:40 PM
wow...even inexperienced me could see that bite coming!!! why would you purposly challenge the dog? the dog clearly submitted and still caesar was at him...he was asking to be bitten! The poor dog saw no other alternative...I had a lab years ago and it never bit me, not one time...and I had no idea what i was doing!
I have never has aggression problems with any of the dogs I have owned, but I know enough to know you don't go over a dogs head...even for a pat! Always under the chin...am I wrong? That is just common sense no?
I WAS purchasing his magazine ...won't buy another copy as I have lost all respect for him!

Britster 10-19-2012 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster Brown (Post 4036982)
I lost respect for him over the years. I dislike many of his techniques like kicking the dog and I have seen him pinch the carotid artery. Of course a dog would submit when your doing that. He has a poor reputation with trainers who use positive reinforcement training. Of course the dog was going to react he disregarded the cues and cornered her. I hope she was not punished by him for biting him when the camera's were off and she was at his compound.
Sadly the dog lives with Cesar full time now.

Britster 10-19-2012 05:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by concretegurl (Post 4037050)
Do I blame him for kicking at the dog....honestly no.

When we get attacked we react, sometimes in a way we would not choose to but our brain says SURVIVE DEFEND OR FLEE.

I blame him for the situation resulting in a bite.
As others abd he said numerous signs the dog gave, the dog never got out of defend mode, heck I saw yhe bite coming!
Oh I don't blame him for kicking the dog while being bit. What else do you do? But it could have all been prevented in the first place!

He's turned into an arrogant showman... I don't see dog training on his show. All he spouts over and over is dominance crap.

gracielove 10-19-2012 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britster (Post 4037163)
Sadly the dog lives with Cesar full time now.
I'm sure he must have "saved" it for the family. That makes my stomach turn. He said she could never be around children. Maybe so but she shouldn't have to live in that kennel he has for throw away dogs.

yorkietalkjilly 10-19-2012 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britster (Post 4037165)
Oh I don't blame him for kicking the dog while being bit. What else do you do? But it could have all been prevented in the first place!

He's turned into an arrogant showman... I don't see dog training on his show. All he spouts over and over is dominance crap.
Absolutely right! He demonstrates no dog training on his shows that I've seen! It's pure dominance as far as I can tell. He's lucky he wasn't really attacked but that dog meant him no harm, just defending her poor self against what he had been doing to her and wasn't going to take any more. Sadly, those people didn't run him off - they let him have her! I couldn't stand by & watch anybody do that to Tibbe - let alone gift him to them!!!! Grrr.

QuickSilver 10-19-2012 07:51 PM
Brit, seriously, my guess is that at this point YOU are a better dog trainer than CM! Have you thought about starting a blog for you and Jackson? Or doing any of the training certs mentioned in your second post?

Oh, also -- that guy who fired me a couple weeks ago has Labs, all of whom are sent to "boot camp" to learn to behave. :roll eyes: Cause you know, Labs are so hard to train. He was bragging how his Lab will Down/Stay forever before getting her food, even to the point where they've forgotten to release her for hours.


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