handling visitor question pls..

[EsmeeKimme]

Hiya all. I have been doing a ton of reading and watching videos and such on puppy training, socialization and obedience. I just want to start things out correctly.

The only thing I see I can't really control is visitors. I can make sure my kids and husband understand maintaining calm energy and all of that but what do I do with company?

Before this wasn't an issue because we lived out of state (WI)from my family near my husband's family and his folks are all dog people. My family however are mostly cat people. The ones that do have dogs let them rule the roost to the point that they can't take them anywhere or do hardly anything with them because their dogs are uncontrolleable.

I know deep down its the whole pack leader thing and they bought breeds that were dominate and they didn't take over as alpha early on so the dog assumed the role.

My problem is I know a Yorkie can be a dominant little guy and I want to make sure I don't end up with a dog that will charge company, barking his little head off. I want him to be calm and enjoy company and let them enjoy him without it being a huge production of me having to hold him to keep him from being nutzo.

I can train me to greet him properly, I can train him to sit and wait for release to greet people but how to do you handle people you know are going to walk in and be all high pitching exciteable voice and not wait for him to calm before greeting him?

[KazzyK810]

Could you arrange to have a few good friends stop by on occasion and practice the behaviour with him?

My last yorkie had a collapsing trachea, and when she was young I had friends, neighbors & my kids friends stop by to help train her to stay calm. It took about a month of solidly working with her. She'd still bark and run to the door to acknowledge someone, but she wouldn't get worked up over it and end up gasping for air.

[107barney]

My Barney was my first yorkie. He was only 8 weeks old when I got him. He met over 100 people in the first four weeks that I had him. I would keep Barney's leash with me at all times and ask him to sit and then have the UPS guy or whoever give Barney a treat.

It is best to introduce the puppy to as many people and experiences as you can. I took my dogs out into the world before their shots were complete, but I never let their feet touch the ground and I did not let them interact with other dogs on the street. I took a more liberal approach to this but I felt that socialization of my dogs was of a greater benefit than the smaller risk of taking them out.

I would suggest signing up for puppy class if you havent already.

[Furbaby Friend]

Training and socialization will help with this. I second the "plant" idea. You should pick people you know will listen to you to help train. After they are well trained enough, they will listen even if the human isn't obeying the normal "calm" rules. You just have to start out slow and then start adding distractions until they get it. For instance, Rylie sucked at laying down and not moving until I released her... now I can jump around like a freak and scream and she doesn't move until I give her the command. I worked up the distraction level slowly.

Note: I would not recommend having a bunch of people/dogs over or taking your pup outside until the little one completes their shots. You should not take them out to pet stores or outside, etc. as they can get sick. In addition, most puppy classes will not let you join unless the pups are fully vaccinated. If they do, I would not take your pup to that class.

I let people over my house to see Rylie after she adjusted (I gave her a week, you don't want to bombard them after such a big life change IMO). However, I made them remove their shoes so that they didn't traipse in any kind of germs/disease from outside or anything. People can bring in dog illness. I also made them all wash their hands before they saw her. Rylie was 12 (almost 13 weeks), I would be even more careful with a younger pup. JMO. Once she completed her shots though and the vet okayed it, we were outside right away!

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Furbaby Friend

Training and socialization will help with this. I second the "plant" idea. You should pick people you know will listen to you to help train. After they are well trained enough, they will listen even if the human isn't obeying the normal "calm" rules. You just have to start out slow and then start adding distractions until they get it. For instance, Rylie sucked at laying down and not moving until I released her... now I can jump around like a freak and scream and she doesn't move until I give her the command. I worked up the distraction level slowly.

Note: I would not recommend having a bunch of people/dogs over or taking your pup outside until the little one completes their shots. You should not take them out to pet stores or outside, etc. as they can get sick. In addition, most puppy classes will not let you join unless the pups are fully vaccinated. If they do, I would not take your pup to that class.

I let people over my house to see Rylie after she adjusted (I gave her a week, you don't want to bombard them after such a big life change IMO). However, I made them remove their shoes so that they didn't traipse in any kind of germs/disease from outside or anything. People can bring in dog illness. I also made them all wash their hands before they saw her. Rylie was 12 (almost 13 weeks), I would be even more careful with a younger pup. JMO. Once she completed her shots though and the vet okayed it, we were outside right away!

I disagree. The guidelines of the American Veterninary Society of Animal Behavior (AVSAB) also adopted by others such as the AKC regarding puppy socialization state differently. Animal Behaviorist Ian Dunbar also believes that a puppy meet at least 100 different people by age 12 weeks.

Taken from the AKC website, this sums up the importance of early socialization to a variety of different people and other puppies--

"Because of the evidence that early socialization can prevent serious canine behavior problems such as fear, avoidance, and aggression, in 2008 the AVSAB issued the position statement that it should be the standard of care for puppies to be socialized in the first 12 weeks.
An excellent means of early socialization is for puppies to attend puppy-kindergarten classes. Although many vets have held that puppies should not be exposed to strange dogs before 12 to 16 weeks because of disease risk, the AVSAB supports participation in puppy kindergarten classes before the full series of puppy vaccines has been completed as long as all puppies in the class are vet-checked to be healthy and parasite-free upon entering the class and are kept current on vaccinations" American Kennel Club - AKC Breeder

The full position statement of the AVSAB is here:
http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/puppy%20socialization.pdf

[Britster]

Originally Posted by 107barney

I disagree. The guidelines of the American Veterninary Society of Animal Behavior (AVSAB) also adopted by others such as the AKC regarding puppy socialization state differently. Animal Behaviorist Ian Dunbar also believes that a puppy meet at least 100 different people by age 12 weeks.

Taken from the AKC website, this sums up the importance of early socialization to a variety of different people and other puppies--

"Because of the evidence that early socialization can prevent serious canine behavior problems such as fear, avoidance, and aggression, in 2008 the AVSAB issued the position statement that it should be the standard of care for puppies to be socialized in the first 12 weeks.
An excellent means of early socialization is for puppies to attend puppy-kindergarten classes. Although many vets have held that puppies should not be exposed to strange dogs before 12 to 16 weeks because of disease risk, the AVSAB supports participation in puppy kindergarten classes before the full series of puppy vaccines has been completed as long as all puppies in the class are vet-checked to be healthy and parasite-free upon entering the class and are kept current on vaccinations" American Kennel Club - AKC Breeder

The full position statement of the AVSAB is here:
http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/puppy%20socialization.pdf

Also, get all that dominant pack leader stuff out of your mind. I think, to an extent, it's true. But to me, it's all about forming a tight bond with your dog and being a teacher and a friend, forming a mutual trust and respect between man and dog. Often people will blame everything on "dominance".... the dog is barking at a stranger at the door? Dominant? No, he's probably barking out of fear, or he's alerting you to an intruder. The dog walks out the door before you. He's being dominant. No... he probably is just really excited to get outside and explore the world and hasn't been taught otherwise. The list goes on and on. Too many people think their dog is being dominant, when they are really just unsure of what to do about certain situations because they have never been properly taught.

Check out youtube channels - zakgeorge21, kikopup, pamelamarxen, and heck you can even check out my own youtube channel - brittanyjadexo to see a Yorkie who has been trained and socialized without the alpha mentality. I used to believe in all the dominance stuff (but never had to use it w/ Jackson) but have since been transformed by the power of positive training. More than anything I'm for relationship based training. It's not as simple as just using a click to communicate with your dog... you have to get on their level.

I personally don't have an issue with Jackson being over excited to see people that he loves as long as they don't have an issue with it. Generally if a person is speaking high pitched and happy tones to a dog, they are dog people and won't mind being licked, jumped on, etc. I have certain family members that Jackson adores and they love when he greets them with such excitement. However if a stranger walks in the door, and he barks at them, he does it for about 10 seconds and then I ask him to stop, I've always re-directed him with food. But out in public, he's very well mannered and won't bark at people walking by, or other dogs on leash (even if they are barking at him), etc, because since a pup, I've always socialized him and carried treats with me since he was always very unsure of strangers.

[Furbaby Friend]

Well like I said, I did have people over, but they had to take precautions. I also did not have any people over I could not trust to behave around my pup. Hence the not having a million people coming over thing. It isn't that I didn't have ANYONE over.

Despite the need to socialize, I find the risk of disease not to be worth taking my pup out before their shots are done, but that's just me. I feel that Rylie is very well socialized despite waiting to take her out. She does not have any "serious canine behavior problems such as fear, avoidance, and aggression."

Maybe it is necessary to take them out for more socialization if you take them from their mama and litter mates before 12 weeks, but I feel that Rylie was extremely well socialized from her time at the breeder's and it did not hurt to wait until her shots were done to take her out. In addition, my vet told me not to take her out until she was fully vaccinated and I found it important to follow that medical advice.

I can work to correct potential behavior problems after the fact (although I don't see any evidence of any issues in my pup), but I could not have reversed Rylie's death from a disease. I personally do not feel it is a good idea to take pups out before their shots are done, but everyone is free to have their own opinion.

[Furbaby Friend]

NOTE: I am not saying that anyone else is wrong in taking their pups out earlier or anything. In fact, apparently there are reputable sources that back this philosophy up. I am just saying that I personally do not feel comfortable doing that.

If you are going to take them out early, it should be thoroughly researched on how to go about it, so that you reduce the risk of them getting sick.

I think it is a great idea to socialize your pup, but I think there are multiple ways to go about it.

[EsmeeKimme]

Thanks for all the information and advice here, I really appreciate the responses and hearing everyones opinions

[EsmeeKimme]

Originally Posted by KazzyK810

Could you arrange to have a few good friends stop by on occasion and practice the behaviour with him?

My last yorkie had a collapsing trachea, and when she was young I had friends, neighbors & my kids friends stop by to help train her to stay calm. It took about a month of solidly working with her. She'd still bark and run to the door to acknowledge someone, but she wouldn't get worked up over it and end up gasping for air.

I am trying to think of a list of people I could trust to act correctly, the fact that I tend not to be very social myself sorta hurts at this point lol.

[Furbaby Friend]

Originally Posted by EsmeeKimme

I am trying to think of a list of people I could trust to act correctly, the fact that I tend not to be very social myself sorta hurts at this point lol.

You could always have the same people rotate! Have them over multiple times each and maybe even in a group to get the pup used to more people at once.

Work with what ya got I always say!

[EsmeeKimme]

Originally Posted by Furbaby Friend

You could always have the same people rotate! Have them over multiple times each and maybe even in a group to get the pup used to more people at once.

Work with what ya got I always say!

Thats a good idea thanks

[My lil friend]

I have 5 dogs of various size and sex (4males 1female),they all live in the house. I look at them as my children (I have 6 people puppies) and therefore am the alpha of the pack. When people come to see us, training continues I do not put my dogs up,because they live here.
When I brought 2 tiny poodle puppies home,many years ago, I did call and invite a friend or two over,one or two at a time.
I also take my furbabies with me everywhere I can,even stores. If I show up at the fabric store without a furbaby I am ask where they are.
Sense they have always been treated as a part of the family they dont know that they have 4 feet and dont always wear clothes.

[Furbaby Friend]

Originally Posted by EsmeeKimme

Thats a good idea thanks

No problem! Happy to help. Sometimes our situations don't allow us to do everything the "ideal way," but things can still work and work really well! You just have to give it all you have!

Make the best out of what you've got is a good philosophy to live by... I've adopted more of that attitude lately. We can't be perfect in everything, so we just have to try our best! Things can and will still work out, so try not to worry too much okay? I know it is hard as a caring mama not to though.

[107barney]

Originally Posted by Furbaby Friend

NOTE: I am not saying that anyone else is wrong in taking their pups out earlier or anything. In fact, apparently there are reputable sources that back this philosophy up. I am just saying that I personally do not feel comfortable doing that.

If you are going to take them out early, it should be thoroughly researched on how to go about it, so that you reduce the risk of them getting sick.

I think it is a great idea to socialize your pup, but I think there are multiple ways to go about it.

I totally agree with the concept that everyone should do what they are feeling comfortable with. For me, the veterinarians who specialize in animal behavior carry greater weight on this topic than my general vet because they just are not behaviorists. The crux of this philosophy is that the dog's long term memory is conditioned at an early age and certain things CANNOT be "trained out"

Puppy classes regardless of when started, however, are valuable. In our case, my two puppy mill yorkies are better socialized than my dog from a YTCA breeder. The dog from the breeder has epilepsy and a tremor disorder so it is hard to say if his brain just did not develop correctly - he definitely learns differently. He's been to four obedience classes in his two years and cannot master "down" or even "sit" that well. Yet if you saw him with a clicker and a stick, he is excellent.

Anyway to the OP - read up on the topic and make your decision on how and when to train your dog but I do think formal lessons at some point will serve you and the dog well in the visitor stuff and anything else you want to teach the dog. Best wishes.