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-   General Training Questions (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-training-questions/)
-   -   "YOU are the problem, NOT your dog!" (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-training-questions/220367-you-problem-not-your-dog.html)

YorkieMother 01-15-2011 10:05 AM
Also would like to add that he is overly simplified things some what.... yes for most dogs it is your problem not your dogs the but and it is big but when the dog has chemical or medical reasons to be the way he is whether it is genetic or hard wired do to poor soical skills. sometimes heaven and earth can not make things right no matter what you do.

Do not blame, train goes for the dogs and the owners coming to you to learn to do better. Your fault is blaming the owner not a place to learn form and so Ceser.

JL

Maximo 01-15-2011 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlshAngel985 (Post 3394384)
I agree, I absolutely love this video. This will come in handy with many threads to come.

Yorkiemother, I completely disagree with you. The dog wanted attention, and he/she asked for it in a playful yet non-overbearing way. I don't make my boy sit, dance, or do some trick for every pat, cuddle, hug, or kiss. Maybe it's a matter of preference. I have taught Kaji to get my attention in a similar manner when he needs something. I figured, how else will I know Kaji is hungry, needs to go potty, or wants my attention? Kaji isn't in my face about it, but he's also way smaller than the dog Zack has, which might make it look worse than it actually is. The dog is bigger than our yorkies so the nudge, nuzzle looks worse than it really is.
Maybe this isn't the same thing, but I don't make my boys wait for me to initiate everything. My boys usually do a sit in front of me if they want or need something. However, if I don't see them, they will gently paw at my leg to get my attention. I am very happy that they do this because it is usually to inform me of something important, like I need to dispose of the piddle pad, or I need to check for a hair in their eyes. Sometimes they just want loving, and that is okay with me too.

Britster 01-15-2011 02:00 PM
This really doesn't even deserve a response. But I'm going to anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieMother (Post 3394690)
Of course you disagree with me as it came out my fingers and your going to balk.
Funny, I was going to say the same thing about you disagreeing with this post simply because *I* made the thread. Funny how I have not seen you post on this board in a long time and suddenly, you have to reply to my thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieMother (Post 3394690)
What I am saying is think for yourself... do not go blindly along... going he is wonrdeful, he is not wrong, he is so perfect... allow him to be human, allow him to learn. Allow you to learn. Take the best of what works from him and others gentle sources and grow with the trainer you are learning with.
Where did I EVER say he's perfect? Not ever wrong? So perfect? NOWHERE. I happen to like a lot of his views and training methods and wanted to share them with my YT friends. I'm not going to make a post about a video I liked, and a trainer I like and say "OH, but he does this, this, this, and this WRONG.... but I love him!' I just don't see why this even has to be an argument. Goodness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieMother (Post 3394690)
See his faults learn from them. see his good side learn from that and do not blindly just take it in without questioning any or all of what he does. think it through as to if I do that what possible fall out for my dogs or other dogs could there be. fallout can be both postive or negative.

JL
I used to tell you the same thing about Cesar, however I don't ever remember you being very open about him. But let's not open THAT can of worms.

Britster 01-15-2011 02:12 PM
This pretty much sums up how I feel and what I believe.

http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/tra...ods-views.html

Nancy1999 01-15-2011 02:36 PM
Brittany, I just want to say, I do think you think for yourself. You seem to investigate lots of different methods, and you are continually adapting to what you think works for you and Jackson. You actively work with Jackson training him in agility and other things, and you share with this forum what has worked for you and Jackson. Keep up the good work, and never feel like you know it all, because that's when YOU will stop learning.

JeanieK 01-15-2011 02:56 PM
I do not make my dogs sit and wait for permission to get on my lap before giving them affection. But I do expect them to listen when I tell them to get down. And for the most part they do. They do not growl or protest if I put them off my lap. Sometimes I have to do it 2 or 3 times before they get the message, but eventually they stay off.

Cesar Milan was helping people with PROBLEM dogs. Dogs that had taken over the house. So his methods of no talk no touch no eye contact, was designed to correct the problem and get the dog on the right track. If your dog is not a problem then it's OK to give affection without asking them to do something first.

I do make mine wait when I set the food down before they can eat.

Britster 01-15-2011 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3395036)
Brittany, I just want to say, I do think you think for yourself. You seem to investigate lots of different methods, and you are continually adapting to what you think works for you and Jackson. You actively work with Jackson training him in agility and other things, and you share with this forum what has worked for you and Jackson. Keep up the good work, and never feel like you know it all, because that's when YOU will stop learning.
Thank you, Nancy. I'm very interested in dog training so I really enjoy learning different ways and methods, and then making up some of my own as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanieK (Post 3395054)
I do not make my dogs sit and wait for permission to get on my lap before giving them affection. But I do expect them to listen when I tell them to get down. And for the most part they do. They do not growl or protest if I put them off my lap. Sometimes I have to do it 2 or 3 times before they get the message, but eventually they stay off.

I do make mine wait when I set the food down before they can eat.
Exactly! Zak George does this, too. When he is training another dog, he expects his dog to listen to him and takes the stay command very seriously. You see him talk about it in some of his other videos!

I do this as well. If I want Jackson to get down, I will tell him down, and he listens. He's never growled at me for ANY reason actually, and I think that's because he respects me *and* I respect him.

chattiesmom 01-15-2011 04:20 PM
I think what Zak does that makes a lot of people uncomfortable is that he points out that the HUMAN is accountable and responsible for the training. Making excuses for the dog is conterproductive. This is especially true with animals that come into our lives with "baggage". We can do nothing about what happened in the past and it is truly unfair to make excuses for them -- that mentality limits the animals ability to overcome and limits our ability as the animal's trainer.

Same is true with people -- we take what life has thrown in our face and made choices -- we choose to overcome or we choose to be a victim.

QuickSilver 01-15-2011 05:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy1999 (Post 3395036)
Brittany, I just want to say, I do think you think for yourself. You seem to investigate lots of different methods, and you are continually adapting to what you think works for you and Jackson. You actively work with Jackson training him in agility and other things, and you share with this forum what has worked for you and Jackson. Keep up the good work, and never feel like you know it all, because that's when YOU will stop learning.
I agree, Brittany, you are open to new ideas, and I'm sure that's part of your tremendous success with Jackson. I find you very inspiring.

I took Zak to mean that you are always responsible for your dog's behavior, because as a human being you have so many more resources to control the situation. I am sure that there are many dogs out there who, unattended, will eat cat poop or get into the garbage no matter what. If you cannot TRAIN the problem away, you have to MANAGE it - make the litter box and garbage can inaccessible, etc.


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