My vet says I need to..

[Ellie May]

Ellie is wiggly during exams too.

This is how I see it. Positive reinforcement is great. Proper restaint is not negative reinforcement though. I wouldn't say you need to force her on her side and hold all four paws right now. Start slow. Do one thing at a time. But in my opinion, getting a dog used to being restrained and even putting it in uncomfortable (by that I don't mean painful) positions is not a bad thing. If I just let Ellie decide to not be restrained at home, then I'm not quite sure how her teeth would get brushed. It isn't her favorite. And how would I give her SQ fluids if I let her walk around and do what she wants? Be safe about it, but don't let her do what she wants to either. And treats are great. If you start small and are consistent, then positive reinforcement may work very well.

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by Ellie May

Ellie is wiggly during exams too.

This is how I see it. Positive reinforcement is great. Proper restaint is not negative reinforcement though. I wouldn't say you need to force her on her side and hold all four paws right now. Start slow. Do one thing at a time. But in my opinion, getting a dog used to being restrained and even putting it in uncomfortable (by that I don't mean painful) positions is not a bad thing. If I just let Ellie decide to not be restrained at home, then I'm not quite sure how her teeth would get brushed. It isn't her favorite. And how would I give her SQ fluids if I let her walk around and do what she wants? Be safe about it, but don't let her do what she wants to either. And treats are great. If you start small and are consistent, then positive reinforcement may work very well.

Have you tried slowly getting her used to teeth brushing?

Just some food for thought: most zoo animals are trained to get *shots*. Usually this is done by training the animal to touch a mark with their nose, and then standing still. They generally get a food reward, and many of them absolutely love "performing". So if you are having trouble with a yorkie, imagine working with a giraffe.

That's not to say that I myself have trained Thor so beautifully that he would get a shot without batting an eyelash. He struggles at the vet. However, there is a difference between occasionally restraining your pet and forcing it into a frightening, submissive position several times per day just to teach it a lesson.

Let me also suggest for people whose pets really object to grooming, etc: keep in mind that if your dog is resisting you, it is probably frightened. So really, it's a kindness to your dog to train your dog to deal with these things, because not only is it easier for you, it's no longer a scary, unpredictable experience for your dog.

[kjc]

This is so psychologically damaging when done to a puppy!

What your vet is asking you to do is a variation of a technique developed by a breeder/trainer decades ago, intended to only be used by other trainers when dealing with older, severely agressive dogs only after absolutely all other possible methods of training have failed.

Please do not do this exercise with your puppy. You risk permanent damage to her psyche, you can very easily cause injury to one or all of her legs, back, and/or neck.

[Ellie May]

Originally Posted by QuickSilver

Have you tried slowly getting her used to teeth brushing?

Just some food for thought: most zoo animals are trained to get *shots*. Usually this is done by training the animal to touch a mark with their nose, and then standing still. They generally get a food reward, and many of them absolutely love "performing". So if you are having trouble with a yorkie, imagine working with a giraffe.

That's not to say that I myself have trained Thor so beautifully that he would get a shot without batting an eyelash. He struggles at the vet. However, there is a difference between occasionally restraining your pet and forcing it into a frightening, submissive position several times per day just to teach it a lesson.

Let me also suggest for people whose pets really object to grooming, etc: keep in mind that if your dog is resisting you, it is probably frightened. So really, it's a kindness to your dog to train your dog to deal with these things, because not only is it easier for you, it's no longer a scary, unpredictable experience for your dog.

3.5 years later and she still doesn't like tooth brushing. She tolerates it and likes the taste of the toothpaste. Not at all distressed over it. It's just a matter of making her lay on me while I do it. She isn't scared (but is scared at the vet's office). She just doesn't like it.

[Ringo1]

I have to respectfully disagree with your Vet on this one. The alpha roll is an outdated maneuver that does more harm than good - especially for our little ones.

I think you can do gentle 'submission exercises' by teaching 'down' and 'sit' using positive reinforcement (I use special treats). These simple commands reinforce your position as the 'leader' without any use of force.

You can then use these to teach manners - like 'sit' before their food bowl is put down' 'sit' while they are being leashed; 'sit' before they walk out the door. Little things like that are gentle and polite.

You can also google Nothing in Life For Free (NILF) which gives a whole host of training ideas - simply teaching your dog manners; reinforces your position as leader; AND is simply a polite way of living together.

Good Luck!

[Rhetts_mama]

Submission techniiques like this don't work- they are based on the observation of wild wolves who WILLINGLY roll to their side for the Alpha dog. It's almost never that the alpha wolf would have to hold down another dog.

Just a thought though, could your vet actually be suggesting that you work with your pups feet and tummy while it is lying on it's side in an attempt to desensitize them? That's quite a bit different than physically forcing a dog over.

[Maximo]

Originally Posted by Ringo1

I have to respectfully disagree with your Vet on this one. The alpha roll is an outdated maneuver that does more harm than good - especially for our little ones.

I think you can do gentle 'submission exercises' by teaching 'down' and 'sit' using positive reinforcement (I use special treats). These simple commands reinforce your position as the 'leader' without any use of force.

You can then use these to teach manners - like 'sit' before their food bowl is put down' 'sit' while they are being leashed; 'sit' before they walk out the door. Little things like that are gentle and polite.

You can also google Nothing in Life For Free (NILF) which gives a whole host of training ideas - simply teaching your dog manners; reinforces your position as leader; AND is simply a polite way of living together.

Good Luck!

Great post. I much prefer to be the leader, rather than the dominator, in my home.

[misskate]

Good grief, all I have to do is sweet talk my little ones and they will do anything for me. I can't immagine holding them down like that. I thought torture methods went out with the nazi regime. Scary.