Invisible fence doesn't work anymore

[Nancy1999]

Originally Posted by ihy

Haha - I'm obviously not painting a very accurate picture.

The beagle was easy to train, using the same techniques we have tried with the Yorkie....and I've had success training other dogs using the same techniques. Trust me, we use positive reinforcement and simple commands such as "no" when discouraging unwanted behavior.

He's getting proper training, love, exercise, etc.....he's just obstinant. Perhaps dogs have disorders as humans do. Just frustrating.

I do like him - he's cute. Don't take my screen name to heart - I do have a sense of humor. If I didn't like him I wouldn't be registering on a forum where the experts are. For the most part, we've done everything you've suggested (except the pennies in the can, and the expen).

Perhaps you've just been lucky enough not to come across such a dog as Finn.

Well, I'm sure all yorkie owners will agree with you on that, yorkies are very obstinate, determined, stubborn, and pigheaded, more so, than any other breed I've had; that's one of the things I love about them! Most breeds really want to please you, and have no problem with the human being the "master". Not true with yorkies, you have to outwit, outsmart and outplay them, and for most of us, this is too hard, and it's just easier to build a fence. They are trainable; at least that's what I've heard.

[JenniferLeigh]

Sounds like this little guy might benefit from NILf training. NILIf stands for "Nothing in life is free". You'll find an intro here: Nothing in life is free - NILF - dog training - Article on Pets.ca and if you search for "NILIF Dog Training" you'll find tons of articles and opinions on the subject.

It sounds like he is a little rascal, and I hope you work everything out.

[Wylie's Mom]

Originally Posted by ihy

(partial quote)Attention/Love: I pet him all the time and play fetch with him a lot.

Come: I and everyone else have tried teaching him to come. He only comes when there is something in it for him. We all use either treats or petting. When he doesn't want to come, he'll start to come, and then run away....it's all a game. Like I've said, he has even stopped coming for the van when Grandma starts.

Defiance: Whenever anyone corrects him (with standard one-syllable commands such as "no"), he will poop somewhere strategic. My brother-in-law (in Oregon) once wouldn't let him out (they live in a suburban neighborhood), and Finn poop on his pillow (on his bed) 5 minutes later!

Barking: He doesn't bark much inside at all oddly enough, even when there are strange occurrences or sounds outside. It's when he is outside that he goes nuts.

When you fetch, are you just throwing it back and forth, or are you in control? Are you making him "drop it", "sit", "stay", and "go get it"? If he is always in control, he will feel like he always HAS to be in control (alpha).

I sort of got the impression that it may have gotten to the point where Grandma was "starting her car" just to get him to "come" - is that true? If so, then he has learned that the starting of the car IS just a game (and therefore, no longer necessarily means he is going anywhere). In any case, it appears to me that "Come" is now just lost on this kiddo. Completely confuses him and doesn't really mean anything - which makes sense to me if his commands, overall, are unclear to him.

I'm not quite sure about revenge pooping , but that's interesting. If there is such a thing, that would be yet another sign of alpha behavior - and again, he is feeling like he has to be in charge...this is a lot of pressure for him.

The barking - again, alpha and confusion and boundaries. He is trying to protect territory all by his little alpha self - so barking his head off makes perfect sense to me - he feels unsafe and feels a lot of pressure. When he is inside, he probably feels more equipped to "handle" the smaller territory, so he doesn't bark as much.

Dogs need clear and consistent messages, they don't speak English, they speak dog. If you want to learn to speak dog, I'd recommend Tamar Gellar's "The Loved Dog" . This fella will do fine if you communicate using his language.

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Well, I'm sure all yorkie owners will agree with you on that, yorkies are very obstinate, determined, stubborn, and pigheaded, more so, than any other breed I've had; that's one of the things I love about them! Most breeds really want to please you, and have no problem with the human being the "master". Not true with yorkies, you have to outwit, outsmart and outplay them, and for most of us, this is too hard, and it's just easier to build a fence. They are trainable; at least that's what I've heard.

Hmmmm....what other species does this remind me of...what is IT....??? OH! I got it! HUMANS .

[QuickSilver]

Okay, maybe I am missing something. I admit I didn't find it all that hilarious when you said you wanted to drop him off at the humane society.

I don't really understand how someone who has trained dogs before - and has a beagle - can make statements like, "he only does tricks for food", or "he just stares at me when I try to teach him speak", or "he doesn't come back to us when called." Again, I can only guess that the other dogs you've worked with were both brilliant and angelic.

Please also consider that this dog could be attacked by a larger animal while outside, even if successfully confined by an invisible fence.

[ihy]

Thanks WyliesMom for the insight, Nancy1999 for the link, and JenniferLeigh for letting me know that I am not alone!

QuickSilver. I do apologize...I realize now that going on a Yorkie forum with the name ihy was probably not the best introduction. Can I rephrase that to I Hug Yorkies? ...and by Humane Society, and meant a place that could find him a more suitable owner. I do feel inadequate however much I am trying to get through to him.

So WyliesMom: A suppose the trick is to establish someone else in the house as the alpha? I suppose that will have to be Grandma as she spends the most time with him. Perhaps my daughter can go out and walk the perimeter with him to show him that things are "okay" out there. I certainly don't want to break his spirit, but perhaps we just need to rein him in a notch or two.

[DvlshAngel985]

Originally Posted by ihy

Thanks WyliesMom for the insight, Nancy1999 for the link, and JenniferLeigh for letting me know that I am not alone!

QuickSilver. I do apologize...I realize now that going on a Yorkie forum with the name ihy was probably not the best introduction. Can I rephrase that to I Hug Yorkies? ...and by Humane Society, and meant a place that could find him a more suitable owner. I do feel inadequate however much I am trying to get through to him.

So WyliesMom: A suppose the trick is to establish someone else in the house as the alpha? I suppose that will have to be Grandma as she spends the most time with him. Perhaps my daughter can go out and walk the perimeter with him to show him that things are "okay" out there. I certainly don't want to break his spirit, but perhaps we just need to rein him in a notch or two.

It doesn't necessarily have to be Grandma, although it would probably be easiest. He just needs to learn what his place is on the totem pole. For my dog for a time it was me, him, the grass, sky, and all living creatures then all the humans in the household. When they tried to correct him using other methods than the one I used he just wouldn't listen. I had complains for weeks that he just wouldn't listen to my parents. Now he knows my family comes first (although he has preferences) and then comes the dog. Whatever you decide to do, you all need to be on the same page. Corrections don't have to be "no" it can be pennies in a can, a clap, "uh-oh" or something else. Since come has no meaning, find a new word and try again. Whatever it is everyone in the household has to use it. When my parents didn't follow my rule, my boy had no structure, and he got into mischief.
Good luck!

[QuickSilver]

How much time do you spend with him? The person who should be taking the lead on training is the owner. I'm not sure how much effect a visitor can have, although perhaps you can impress the MiL by teaching him something and convince her to work on his behavior.

Here's a practical suggestion for the nighttime barking: ear plugs. Works great with crying babies on airplanes too!

[BlueBelle]

I think you are right, this dog is obstinate. Some want to please, some want reward and some want their way. The last appears to be him. You are stuck trying to take evasive action to keep him from escaping, and he will have to wear a leash when outside even if it is long. It does give you a chance to keep him safe, at least. Good luck, you are going to need it.