Biting - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

livingdustmops · 02-12-2010, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieMother

You know I have great respect for you but I am about to say..what??

The old standard was that no going anywhere until the pup had all its shots but I know you know that is to late for soical skills work. 100 peole , places ,things and dogs by 16 weeks for good mental health.
So a good clean puppy class after first possible second shots and a vet ok... covering my butt here and go.
I had and will continue to take pups out on first shots but it has to be the owners comfort and understaqnding that a lot must get done by 16 weeks not to have fear and aggression concerns come up later.

JL

I understand what you are saying...I was thinking more in line with Petco and I do get nervous because it is a lot of new pet owners and new instructors...and I am not sure just how clean they really are. You are the trainer so I bow to your experience...

Nancy1999 · 02-12-2010, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YorkieMother

You know I have great respect for you but I am about to say..what??

The old standard was that no going anywhere until the pup had all its shots but I know you know that is to late for soical skills work. 100 peole , places ,things and dogs by 16 weeks for good mental health.
So a good clean puppy class after first possible second shots and a vet ok... covering my butt here and go.
I had and will continue to take pups out on first shots but it has to be the owners comfort and understaqnding that a lot must get done by 16 weeks not to have fear and aggression concerns come up later.

JL

Puppy classes, here in the States, will not take a dog before they have had all their shots; you have to have a written record before they will enroll you. There is no way a person could be sure a class was clean. It is certainly not too late to learn social skills, if you say this, people are going to give up, and think it's too late. This is one of the reasons that the YTCA recommends a breeder keep the puppy a minimum of 12 week because mother and littermates socialize the puppy.

Spike-a-roni · 02-13-2010, 08:42 AM

The other thing to consider is teaching bite inhibition. The idea is to teach the dog how to have a soft mouth as opposed to biting hard.

When the dog bites while playing you pull your hand away, make a yelp sound, and get up and walk away. Then come back and resume playing. If the bite is soft simply pull your hand away and yelp, then resume playing. Ideally by 16 weeks the pup should be very soft and only mouth you. If you watch two puppies who know each other play you will see they actually very rarely bite each other.

If the pup bites hard get up and walk out of the room. Nobody like to lose their playmate, and this is how puppies react with their litter mates. It takes time and consistency, but it's fun when the dog can play with you with a soft mouth.

Nancy1999 · 02-13-2010, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike-a-roni

The other thing to consider is teaching bite inhibition. The idea is to teach the dog how to have a soft mouth as opposed to biting hard.

When the dog bites while playing you pull your hand away, make a yelp sound, and get up and walk away. Then come back and resume playing. If the bite is soft simply pull your hand away and yelp, then resume playing. Ideally by 16 weeks the pup should be very soft and only mouth you. If you watch two puppies who know each other play you will see they actually very rarely bite each other.

If the pup bites hard get up and walk out of the room. Nobody like to lose their playmate, and this is how puppies react with their litter mates. It takes time and consistency, but it's fun when the dog can play with you with a soft mouth.

That sounds like great advice.

YorkieMother · 02-14-2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

I understand what you are saying...I was thinking more in line with Petco and I do get nervous because it is a lot of new pet owners and new instructors...and I am not sure just how clean they really are. You are the trainer so I bow to your experience...

I would have to agree on petco unless it is a seprate room or area and I could pack pup in and out. But anything sometimes is better then nothing.

JL

YorkieMother · 02-14-2010, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nancy1999

Puppy classes, here in the States, will not take a dog before they have had all their shots; you have to have a written record before they will enroll you. There is no way a person could be sure a class was clean. It is certainly not too late to learn social skills, if you say this, people are going to give up, and think it's too late. This is one of the reasons that the YTCA recommends a breeder keep the puppy a minimum of 12 week because mother and littermates socialize the puppy.

I am not sure where you got your education on dog develpoment but it is a fact that the develpomental window for soical skills and learning about things and not having fear issues at the best it can be closes at 16 weeks. You are behind the game after that. Yes you can work through it unti lthey are 3 years of age by why on earth would you want to go through the tough fight to do it if you can make it good to start.

Developmental Stages

Think that you need to look at the work done by Fuller and Scott which was done in the 40s and has not changed and is accepted across the board as it was that deep and long of a study. It in all these years has not been disproved.

As to your comment on pups under 4 months not being allowed to go to class in the states

I got this For Aloffs site ONLY PUPPIES 4 MONTHS OR YOUNGER AS OF THE FIRST CLASS DATE
From Ian Dunbars site Pups must be between 10 and 18 weeks of age at the start date of class with 2 DHLPP vaccinations
Both are USA trainers, I can sneak pups in younger up here cause they know me and they know the breed I work with needs extreme soical skills. I have had one in class at the ripe young age of 8 weeks and she one stinkking amazing calm and well ajusted mellow sweet heart and her breed is not know for calm, sweet or easy.

As for 12 weeks and pups going home why do you think so many yorkies have mental health concerns..you got 2 weeks to get 100 places, people, things and sounds covered. It is not possible. One reason although I love Yorkeis heart body and soul there will not be a pup unless it comes home at 8 weeks or it is a rescue and I know I am working clean up. Unless I know the breeder has done or will do what we do for our pups.

JL

YorkieMother · 02-14-2010, 06:58 PM

Sorry you have 4 weeks to cover 100 people, places, sounds and dogs.
Soical skills is not what the litter mates and mothers can teach that should be done at around 8 to 10 weeks. It is getting out in the world and facing what they will see for the rest of thier lives and learning to cope with it.

It not just being ok with your Mother and litter mates it is being ok with big dogs, little dogs, long tail dogs, short tail dogs, white dogs, black dogs, dogs with hair over thier face and smoe without. And unless a breeders got that in their reach to have a pup see all them and more there is no way they can cover it.

You add in needing to see people of all differnt shapes sizes colours, hats no hats and on and on.

Then you add seeing cars and trucks and motercycles, boats tress and on and on.

Up next to kids and cats and horses.

There is no way a breeder can do it all if they have a large litter and life outside raising pups.

As I spent a great deal of my time in life doing clean up with dogs that have not been well soicalzed and get them to thier CGNs or even to feel ok in their skins.

JL

Nancy1999 · 02-14-2010, 07:32 PM

Sorry, I may be missing some of your points, but you cannot get a dog in puppy classes, until they've had all their shots, and you have to show proof of this. I took Joey to a puppy class, and even though he was older than most of the dogs, he was so much smaller. They switched us to an adult class, because an enthusiastic/clumsy large puppy can really be dangerous to a yorkie puppy. He did much better with the older dogs who weren't trampling him. While I believe that their mental/social health is important, I believe that their physical health is even more important. One breeder suggested, on another thread of socializing in the home of families who had other yorkies, and who you knew had their shots. As she said, if you buy from a reputable breeder, who knows the importance of early socialization, the dog should have experienced many things safely before you even have taken it home.

YorkieMother · 02-18-2010, 08:27 PM

Nancy

Yet again you are wrong. You can take pups to class on their second set of
2 DHLPP vaccinations.
You may want to look into what is actually recomend by professionals in the field in Behaviour.

JL

TwoforFun · 02-18-2010, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livingdustmops

Great advise...doing the alpha roll only escalates the problem or makes them fear the person doing this...

I was told to do this and it worked on my oldest baby and I know she doesn't fear me. But I'm glad I have more input/info so I won't do it to my younger one. Shees, I wonder what else I have done wrong; actually I think I can come up with a few

.

AGirlWithWheels · 02-20-2010, 08:37 PM

Actually PetSmart said we can bring her to class as long as she has had her second set of vaccines, which she has already had. She will be 12 weeks on monday, and they said we can bring her to the training class that starts on Sunday if we have her vaccine records-which we do- and she is getting her third set at the vet on Wed.

02-14-2010, 06:58 PM	#22
YorkieMother YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: North Posts: 1,324	Sorry you have 4 weeks to cover 100 people, places, sounds and dogs. Soical skills is not what the litter mates and mothers can teach that should be done at around 8 to 10 weeks. It is getting out in the world and facing what they will see for the rest of thier lives and learning to cope with it. It not just being ok with your Mother and litter mates it is being ok with big dogs, little dogs, long tail dogs, short tail dogs, white dogs, black dogs, dogs with hair over thier face and smoe without. And unless a breeders got that in their reach to have a pup see all them and more there is no way they can cover it. You add in needing to see people of all differnt shapes sizes colours, hats no hats and on and on. Then you add seeing cars and trucks and motercycles, boats tress and on and on. Up next to kids and cats and horses. There is no way a breeder can do it all if they have a large litter and life outside raising pups. As I spent a great deal of my time in life doing clean up with dogs that have not been well soicalzed and get them to thier CGNs or even to feel ok in their skins. JL __________________ "The truth about an animal is far more beautiful than all the myths woven about it." Konrad Loranz Last edited by YorkieMother; 02-14-2010 at 07:01 PM.

02-14-2010, 07:32 PM	#23
Nancy1999 I ♥ Joey & Ralphie! Donating Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 25,396 Blog Entries: 2	Sorry, I may be missing some of your points, but you cannot get a dog in puppy classes, until they've had all their shots, and you have to show proof of this. I took Joey to a puppy class, and even though he was older than most of the dogs, he was so much smaller. They switched us to an adult class, because an enthusiastic/clumsy large puppy can really be dangerous to a yorkie puppy. He did much better with the older dogs who weren't trampling him. While I believe that their mental/social health is important, I believe that their physical health is even more important. One breeder suggested, on another thread of socializing in the home of families who had other yorkies, and who you knew had their shots. As she said, if you buy from a reputable breeder, who knows the importance of early socialization, the dog should have experienced many things safely before you even have taken it home. __________________ NancyJoey Proud members of the CrAzYcLuB and YAP! ** Just Say No to Puppymills – Join YAP! Yorkshire Terrier Club of America – Breeder Referrals

02-18-2010, 08:27 PM	#24
YorkieMother YT 1000 Club Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: North Posts: 1,324	Nancy Yet again you are wrong. You can take pups to class on their second set of 2 DHLPP vaccinations. You may want to look into what is actually recomend by professionals in the field in Behaviour. JL __________________ "The truth about an animal is far more beautiful than all the myths woven about it." Konrad Loranz

02-13-2010, 08:42 AM	#18
Spike-a-roni YorkieTalk Newbie! Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Phoenix AZ Posts: 8	The other thing to consider is teaching bite inhibition. The idea is to teach the dog how to have a soft mouth as opposed to biting hard. When the dog bites while playing you pull your hand away, make a yelp sound, and get up and walk away. Then come back and resume playing. If the bite is soft simply pull your hand away and yelp, then resume playing. Ideally by 16 weeks the pup should be very soft and only mouth you. If you watch two puppies who know each other play you will see they actually very rarely bite each other. If the pup bites hard get up and walk out of the room. Nobody like to lose their playmate, and this is how puppies react with their litter mates. It takes time and consistency, but it's fun when the dog can play with you with a soft mouth.

02-20-2010, 08:37 PM	#26
AGirlWithWheels Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 119	Actually PetSmart said we can bring her to class as long as she has had her second set of vaccines, which she has already had. She will be 12 weeks on monday, and they said we can bring her to the training class that starts on Sunday if we have her vaccine records-which we do- and she is getting her third set at the vet on Wed.