Still not potty trained @ 11 months!!! Help!!! - Page 2 - YorkieTalk.com Forums

jrsygal37 · 09-27-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cj125

Hmmm. Both of my babies were over a year old when they were fully potty trained and we've had them since they were 10 & 13 wks old. They go outside and on a potty pad - but I chose it to be that way. Yorkies are hard to potty train - no doubt about it. Was the trainer you used familiar with Yorkies? Or at least small breeds? I know they don't think there's a difference - but I believe there is. I've lived with or owned a Shepard, Lab, Boston Terrier, Cocker Spaniel and Yorkies - and the last 2 were the hardest to potty train. I don't know what to say - I guess we just didn't think giving up was an option.

Best Wishes....

I can't agree more. I have five and all were well over a year old before being potty trained. Yorkies are very tough, especialy the tiny babies. They have small bladders that take longer to develop and they can't hold it long. Good post.

Elaine

JaimieMalone · 09-27-2009, 06:20 PM

Well I may have to resort to the pads. The trainer has worked with al ot of small dogs but I think her mistake was not giving her the reality of being in her home.
The ONLY reason I would find a new home for her is mainly the stress it is causing amongst the entire family. We have an extremely active life with 2 boys 9 and 12 both play soccer and I am at one of their field 5 days a week and then you add a husband that travels and another dog and 2 cats and wow its a zoo here! So the anxiety level is high. Chloe is next to me now and my husband just walked in and said to my son and I sleep in in the AM (the boys have a teacher wk. day tomorrow) and I laughed and said yeah good luck as I am up at 6:30 AM regardless with Chloe. Even if i thought I could go back to sleep (which I cant I am just that kind of person) she'll bark. This is what I mean with us living around a dog...its just to much for all of us. That is why I am trying to find any and all solutions b-c I love her. But we are all stressed to the max.

QuickSilver · 09-27-2009, 07:44 PM

Okay, I think I see some things here:

* Your dog has had multiple UTIs.

* It sounds like the trainer was crate training her - you say she was never allowed loose in the house.

* Your trainer was using a "poop fence" and a clicker.

* You tried the "umbilical cord" approach, but felt it was unrealistic.

* You stopped treating for potties recently.

If your dog has had multiple UTIs and was not able to control her peeing, that may explain why it has taken her so long.

With regard to the trainer methods, I think you should follow the trainer's methods exactly. When you get her trained, you can gradually switch her to a different method, but it will be much easier if you start with a method that's been established to work with her.

The umbilical cord is a good method. With a tough potty training case, you really have to FULLY commit to the method you choose, as in, you will do nothing but watch your dog for two weeks straight. I know this is really hard, and I tried to avoid doing it with Thor, but it was the only way. He is also 4 lbs, and sometimes I couldn't even tell he was peeing, he was so small and fast. He'd stand somewhere for a second or two (WHILE I was watching!), and then he'd move, and I'd see the wet spot. The good news is that after two weeks of 100% consistency, I could relax and just watch him with one eye, and then not really watch.

You need to keep treating her for potties until she is completely reliable. Praise and treat her EVERY TIME she potties. This will probably result in her pottying way more to get treats, but let her get away with it until she is at least 30 days accident-free.

Other thoughts:
* You might want to try an xpen. Put pads along the bottom of the entire thing.

* Another method you can try: Do not let her go anywhere without a potty first. Before walks, time outside, eating, playing: pee, pee, pee and pee. If she doesn't, put her back in the crate for fifteen minutes and try again.

* You say you've tried two different cleaners, but don't mention what they are. Are you using an enzyme cleaner, like Nature's Miracle? It's worth checking.

Again, I would recommend first really trying to get the trainer's method to work, because at least that has shown some success. Once she "gets it", it will be much easier to modify your approach. You have to see that "click" though. Have you let the trainer know you are still having trouble? For $1K, they should be willing to do several follow ups.

JaimieMalone · 09-27-2009, 08:18 PM

OK lets see yes on the cleaner...Natures Miracle
I don't think you understand. I HAVE been doing the schedule thing and yes I agree if she doesn't potty she is back int the crate for sure. She always pottys when I go outside and I do make a party out of it. However like you said its hard to see if it really comes out or she is just squatting. I think she does go but she has her hair grown out and that makes even harder. OK I have been on her like a hawk trust me as I am wasy over cleaning up accidents. The 2 times she has had them inside were both my boys fault as she had her leash on and was put on the door knob so he could go to the bathroom. As a boy he was in and out and thats when she peed. The other time again...I was gone they had her out and didnt put her back int he crate. I know all ab. the UTI thing but as I said even after the meds nothing has really seemed to change...then u have the peeing in the crate...another issue. The trainer has offered email communication and I have been keeping a journal of when an accident occurs with times etc...She has been supervised by me constantly which is why I am exhausted and it has been months of this. As mentioned we have a very hectic life to start with so throwing in a hard to house break dog is putting all of us over the edge and that is why I am frazzled.
X-Pen yes believe it or not we had the x pen in the house and she was doing ok in it. Then the trainer used it outside when she was cleaning up or whatever if she didn't get a poop within 3 or so minutes. So I brought the x pen in the house b-c again I thought hey lets get the sched. rt. and see if she can hv a little bit of room and darned if she didn't go in there several times...my guess and the trainer said it was possible after I told her was that CHloe was now assoc. the x pen with outside...another bummer!
I dont know how to to fully commit as you say...I am and I dont let her out of my sight including going to the bathroom which is ridiculous.
UTI- I will be taking her back again for a urinealysis in the AM mainly b-c she peed 2x in her this week which I have to say doesnt happen that often. She pees on her bed I might add which again makes no sense. She is in the smallest crate they make. It is now 12 AM and I am taking her out in a few minutes for the last time tonight. She has been next to me since 8:30 PM with no sign at all that she would need to go potty so if she does she can def. hold it. In fact I had let her sleep with me every now and then which the trainer said not to b-c she said that was giving her freedom which she doesnt get yet...I will go back to the clicker however she doesn't need it at this point b-c she does pee on command when we go out. I have to wait longer for her to find a spot to poop and she is very private about this. She turns her back to me and then turns her head to me to mk sure I see. I appreciate your thoughts however I have been pretty much on the money with this with the exception of the recent issue of not using the clicker (less then a week) I follow the schedule...I put her on the leash next to me every where I can or even if she is in her crate I move it so she can see me. Again she hasnt had an accident with me which again I thought was great and maybe it was time to have some freedom trying the x pen.
I am really unsure why I would even want to start using pads at this time as I have not spoken to one trainer that suggests this. All and I have spoken to every trainer in Raleigh hoping someone could help more...has said that it only encourages the dog to go on all soft surfaces...carpet, yuck. This is why I have been so against the pads. I can try the x pen again and will tomorrow and see what happens after I go by the vets. Basically she has had one UTI ab. 3 months ago and the they said they saw some bladder crystals. Honestly I was thrilled b-c I thought this was our problem solved! so she peed in her crate 2x ab. 1.5 weeks ago and in again she went to the vet...I insisted she had to have had one however they didn't see much she said but agreed that maybe she needed another round to make sure.
I do appreciate your thoughts I do...but I feel like I have and am trying and my little girl either doesn't get it, which I don't think is the case b-c she is smart, or is more stubborn then I would have imagined any dog could be. I have a schnauzer and he has attitude but I know this wasn't nearly the issue it is with Chloe.
Any other thoughts?

QuickSilver · 09-27-2009, 10:21 PM

Hey, I get that it is frustrating. I am looking at things that you might do differently -- not to make you feel bad, but hopefully to give you a new approach. I did not have as tough a time as you did with my yorkie, but there was a while where I thought I would he would never get it. I even started a thread, "Untrainable?". As I mentioned, there were times when I was watching Thor with one eye, and he would still fool me. Once, I was even on YT, complaining about his potty training, and while I was typing (and watching him), he peed on a rug!

About the UTIs, I just meant that maybe it's taking her longer because she hasn't always had full control over her bladder. It can take them a long time. After my experience, I think it is genuinely difficult for some yorkies to grasp what is expected. Their potty training is our differential calculus. I sometimes felt like Thor was just trying to drive me bananas, but I realize that he is just not that smart (though wonderful anyway). He LOVED his potty treats, so I knew he was doing his best, but his best still meant little puddles on the floor.

Given that you paid so much for this trainer, can s/he come to your house and review what you are doing? Maybe it's something small.

I use specially scented pads (also Nature's Miracle) and am very happy with them. However, I live in an apartment, so it's more of a challenge to get a dog with a small bladder outside.

Has your girl ever gone even a few days without an accident in the house? Once you get a few days going, even if they have an accident, it means they are getting it. It is extra tough when they potty in their crates. I haven't seen a good solution for that except to take them out frequently enough that they get used to a clean kennel.

Hang in there.

JaimieMalone · 09-28-2009, 04:40 AM

Thanks

She doesnt hv accidents at all in the house with the exception of the 2 mentioned earlier (that was b-c my son was watching her and then basically th eone time forgot ab. her b -c he had a friend over and they were playing with her and the other when she was on the leash and on the door knob and he went to the bathroom and I came in the bedroom where she was and saw the spot. Other then that its like you said ab. not giving her the oppertunity to hv an accident. She wants to be around me constantly to the point if she is in one rm. and I the other when home she crys. Great ex. is this morning I put her bk in the crate after she has been outside and my husband played with her and I put her food in there lk I always do and walk in the other rm and she cries for like 5 min. while I ignore her...my husband comes out n says to do something b-c my older son is asleep...so I then tk her out and put her in her play pen with the food and she eats b-c I as well as my other son is there...uhhh the maintainence!
I am going to try to see if she can be in the play pen today when I cant watch and see if she can keep it clean...I also will get the pads and see, uhh I hate that I would even resort to them at this point. Actually I need to call the trainer on that one first I guess? So with the pads I guess we start with them in the small area, give more space as she keeps them clean and keep moving it to the door?
I am going to call the vet actually now and have my husband take her by on his way out and see if there is anything at all going on....
I did get the treats and clicker back out and used again this AM...any other advice when it comes to the pads?

jaac · 09-28-2009, 07:19 AM

Gigio is 7 months I'm going thought the same things and winter is coming. I do use diapers when she's is roaming the house.

YorkichonBella · 09-28-2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaimieMalone

Thanks

She doesnt hv accidents at all in the house with the exception of the 2 mentioned earlier (that was b-c my son was watching her and then basically th eone time forgot ab. her b -c he had a friend over and they were playing with her and the other when she was on the leash and on the door knob and he went to the bathroom and I came in the bedroom where she was and saw the spot. Other then that its like you said ab. not giving her the oppertunity to hv an accident. She wants to be around me constantly to the point if she is in one rm. and I the other when home she crys. Great ex. is this morning I put her bk in the crate after she has been outside and my husband played with her and I put her food in there lk I always do and walk in the other rm and she cries for like 5 min. while I ignore her...my husband comes out n says to do something b-c my older son is asleep...so I then tk her out and put her in her play pen with the food and she eats b-c I as well as my other son is there...uhhh the maintainence!
I am going to try to see if she can be in the play pen today when I cant watch and see if she can keep it clean...I also will get the pads and see, uhh I hate that I would even resort to them at this point. Actually I need to call the trainer on that one first I guess? So with the pads I guess we start with them in the small area, give more space as she keeps them clean and keep moving it to the door?
I am going to call the vet actually now and have my husband take her by on his way out and see if there is anything at all going on....
I did get the treats and clicker back out and used again this AM...any other advice when it comes to the pads?

I really am sad to hear your frustration. It now sounds like she really isn't doing that bad. No accidents in the house, except for the 2 times. That's really great! As far as having accidents in her pen, it really sounds as though the UTIs are the problem.....poor baby.
It also sounds like yr family has a really busy schedule for such a small baby. I truly think that keeping her in a small gated off area with puppy pads will be Best for both of you with this type schedule, especially with her UTI problems.
You seem to Love her very much, but very stressed out. Consider how small she is. It will never be safe for her to roam the house as large as yr home is, you know. There are too many other dangers for her. These babies truly do want to be by your side all the time. She sounds very sweet.
I truly hope this works out for Both of you.

Zeus08 · 09-28-2009, 10:10 AM

Not sure if this has been said to you or not but here I go. Praise her when she goes outside like you have been doing. Sounds like she loves your attention and approval. If she has an accident inside the house I would ignore her and just clean it up. No attention what so ever. I was told they can't decipher between good or bad attention. It is all the same to them. I did this with Zeus when we got him and he was trained rather quickly. I hope this makes sense to you. I wish you the best on this long road. Hang in there.

09-27-2009, 10:21 PM	#20
QuickSilver Thor's Human Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,929 Blog Entries: 31	Hey, I get that it is frustrating. I am looking at things that you might do differently -- not to make you feel bad, but hopefully to give you a new approach. I did not have as tough a time as you did with my yorkie, but there was a while where I thought I would he would never get it. I even started a thread, "Untrainable?". As I mentioned, there were times when I was watching Thor with one eye, and he would still fool me. Once, I was even on YT, complaining about his potty training, and while I was typing (and watching him), he peed on a rug! About the UTIs, I just meant that maybe it's taking her longer because she hasn't always had full control over her bladder. It can take them a long time. After my experience, I think it is genuinely difficult for some yorkies to grasp what is expected. Their potty training is our differential calculus. I sometimes felt like Thor was just trying to drive me bananas, but I realize that he is just not that smart (though wonderful anyway). He LOVED his potty treats, so I knew he was doing his best, but his best still meant little puddles on the floor. Given that you paid so much for this trainer, can s/he come to your house and review what you are doing? Maybe it's something small. I use specially scented pads (also Nature's Miracle) and am very happy with them. However, I live in an apartment, so it's more of a challenge to get a dog with a small bladder outside. Has your girl ever gone even a few days without an accident in the house? Once you get a few days going, even if they have an accident, it means they are getting it. It is extra tough when they potty in their crates. I haven't seen a good solution for that except to take them out frequently enough that they get used to a clean kennel. Hang in there. Last edited by QuickSilver; 09-27-2009 at 10:25 PM.

09-28-2009, 07:19 AM	#22
jaac Donating Senior Yorkie Talker Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Castle Pine North Co. Posts: 220	Gigio is 7 months I'm going thought the same things and winter is coming. I do use diapers when she's is roaming the house. __________________ Chanel Enzo Gigio R.I.P JackSweet-p Mac

09-27-2009, 06:20 PM	#17
JaimieMalone No Longer a Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 11	Well I may have to resort to the pads. The trainer has worked with al ot of small dogs but I think her mistake was not giving her the reality of being in her home. The ONLY reason I would find a new home for her is mainly the stress it is causing amongst the entire family. We have an extremely active life with 2 boys 9 and 12 both play soccer and I am at one of their field 5 days a week and then you add a husband that travels and another dog and 2 cats and wow its a zoo here! So the anxiety level is high. Chloe is next to me now and my husband just walked in and said to my son and I sleep in in the AM (the boys have a teacher wk. day tomorrow) and I laughed and said yeah good luck as I am up at 6:30 AM regardless with Chloe. Even if i thought I could go back to sleep (which I cant I am just that kind of person) she'll bark. This is what I mean with us living around a dog...its just to much for all of us. That is why I am trying to find any and all solutions b-c I love her. But we are all stressed to the max.

09-27-2009, 07:44 PM	#18
QuickSilver Thor's Human Donating Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 5,929 Blog Entries: 31	Okay, I think I see some things here: * Your dog has had multiple UTIs. * It sounds like the trainer was crate training her - you say she was never allowed loose in the house. * Your trainer was using a "poop fence" and a clicker. * You tried the "umbilical cord" approach, but felt it was unrealistic. * You stopped treating for potties recently. If your dog has had multiple UTIs and was not able to control her peeing, that may explain why it has taken her so long. With regard to the trainer methods, I think you should follow the trainer's methods exactly. When you get her trained, you can gradually switch her to a different method, but it will be much easier if you start with a method that's been established to work with her. The umbilical cord is a good method. With a tough potty training case, you really have to FULLY commit to the method you choose, as in, you will do nothing but watch your dog for two weeks straight. I know this is really hard, and I tried to avoid doing it with Thor, but it was the only way. He is also 4 lbs, and sometimes I couldn't even tell he was peeing, he was so small and fast. He'd stand somewhere for a second or two (WHILE I was watching!), and then he'd move, and I'd see the wet spot. The good news is that after two weeks of 100% consistency, I could relax and just watch him with one eye, and then not really watch. You need to keep treating her for potties until she is completely reliable. Praise and treat her EVERY TIME she potties. This will probably result in her pottying way more to get treats, but let her get away with it until she is at least 30 days accident-free. Other thoughts: * You might want to try an xpen. Put pads along the bottom of the entire thing. * Another method you can try: Do not let her go anywhere without a potty first. Before walks, time outside, eating, playing: pee, pee, pee and pee. If she doesn't, put her back in the crate for fifteen minutes and try again. * You say you've tried two different cleaners, but don't mention what they are. Are you using an enzyme cleaner, like Nature's Miracle? It's worth checking. Again, I would recommend first really trying to get the trainer's method to work, because at least that has shown some success. Once she "gets it", it will be much easier to modify your approach. You have to see that "click" though. Have you let the trainer know you are still having trouble? For $1K, they should be willing to do several follow ups.

09-27-2009, 08:18 PM	#19
JaimieMalone No Longer a Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 11	OK lets see yes on the cleaner...Natures Miracle I don't think you understand. I HAVE been doing the schedule thing and yes I agree if she doesn't potty she is back int the crate for sure. She always pottys when I go outside and I do make a party out of it. However like you said its hard to see if it really comes out or she is just squatting. I think she does go but she has her hair grown out and that makes even harder. OK I have been on her like a hawk trust me as I am wasy over cleaning up accidents. The 2 times she has had them inside were both my boys fault as she had her leash on and was put on the door knob so he could go to the bathroom. As a boy he was in and out and thats when she peed. The other time again...I was gone they had her out and didnt put her back int he crate. I know all ab. the UTI thing but as I said even after the meds nothing has really seemed to change...then u have the peeing in the crate...another issue. The trainer has offered email communication and I have been keeping a journal of when an accident occurs with times etc...She has been supervised by me constantly which is why I am exhausted and it has been months of this. As mentioned we have a very hectic life to start with so throwing in a hard to house break dog is putting all of us over the edge and that is why I am frazzled. X-Pen yes believe it or not we had the x pen in the house and she was doing ok in it. Then the trainer used it outside when she was cleaning up or whatever if she didn't get a poop within 3 or so minutes. So I brought the x pen in the house b-c again I thought hey lets get the sched. rt. and see if she can hv a little bit of room and darned if she didn't go in there several times...my guess and the trainer said it was possible after I told her was that CHloe was now assoc. the x pen with outside...another bummer! I dont know how to to fully commit as you say...I am and I dont let her out of my sight including going to the bathroom which is ridiculous. UTI- I will be taking her back again for a urinealysis in the AM mainly b-c she peed 2x in her this week which I have to say doesnt happen that often. She pees on her bed I might add which again makes no sense. She is in the smallest crate they make. It is now 12 AM and I am taking her out in a few minutes for the last time tonight. She has been next to me since 8:30 PM with no sign at all that she would need to go potty so if she does she can def. hold it. In fact I had let her sleep with me every now and then which the trainer said not to b-c she said that was giving her freedom which she doesnt get yet...I will go back to the clicker however she doesn't need it at this point b-c she does pee on command when we go out. I have to wait longer for her to find a spot to poop and she is very private about this. She turns her back to me and then turns her head to me to mk sure I see. I appreciate your thoughts however I have been pretty much on the money with this with the exception of the recent issue of not using the clicker (less then a week) I follow the schedule...I put her on the leash next to me every where I can or even if she is in her crate I move it so she can see me. Again she hasnt had an accident with me which again I thought was great and maybe it was time to have some freedom trying the x pen. I am really unsure why I would even want to start using pads at this time as I have not spoken to one trainer that suggests this. All and I have spoken to every trainer in Raleigh hoping someone could help more...has said that it only encourages the dog to go on all soft surfaces...carpet, yuck. This is why I have been so against the pads. I can try the x pen again and will tomorrow and see what happens after I go by the vets. Basically she has had one UTI ab. 3 months ago and the they said they saw some bladder crystals. Honestly I was thrilled b-c I thought this was our problem solved! so she peed in her crate 2x ab. 1.5 weeks ago and in again she went to the vet...I insisted she had to have had one however they didn't see much she said but agreed that maybe she needed another round to make sure. I do appreciate your thoughts I do...but I feel like I have and am trying and my little girl either doesn't get it, which I don't think is the case b-c she is smart, or is more stubborn then I would have imagined any dog could be. I have a schnauzer and he has attitude but I know this wasn't nearly the issue it is with Chloe. Any other thoughts?

09-28-2009, 04:40 AM	#21
JaimieMalone No Longer a Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 11	Thanks She doesnt hv accidents at all in the house with the exception of the 2 mentioned earlier (that was b-c my son was watching her and then basically th eone time forgot ab. her b -c he had a friend over and they were playing with her and the other when she was on the leash and on the door knob and he went to the bathroom and I came in the bedroom where she was and saw the spot. Other then that its like you said ab. not giving her the oppertunity to hv an accident. She wants to be around me constantly to the point if she is in one rm. and I the other when home she crys. Great ex. is this morning I put her bk in the crate after she has been outside and my husband played with her and I put her food in there lk I always do and walk in the other rm and she cries for like 5 min. while I ignore her...my husband comes out n says to do something b-c my older son is asleep...so I then tk her out and put her in her play pen with the food and she eats b-c I as well as my other son is there...uhhh the maintainence! I am going to try to see if she can be in the play pen today when I cant watch and see if she can keep it clean...I also will get the pads and see, uhh I hate that I would even resort to them at this point. Actually I need to call the trainer on that one first I guess? So with the pads I guess we start with them in the small area, give more space as she keeps them clean and keep moving it to the door? I am going to call the vet actually now and have my husband take her by on his way out and see if there is anything at all going on.... I did get the treats and clicker back out and used again this AM...any other advice when it comes to the pads?

09-28-2009, 10:10 AM	#24
Zeus08 YT 500 Club Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Sahuarita, Arizona Posts: 992	Not sure if this has been said to you or not but here I go. Praise her when she goes outside like you have been doing. Sounds like she loves your attention and approval. If she has an accident inside the house I would ignore her and just clean it up. No attention what so ever. I was told they can't decipher between good or bad attention. It is all the same to them. I did this with Zeus when we got him and he was trained rather quickly. I hope this makes sense to you. I wish you the best on this long road. Hang in there.