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-   General Training Questions (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-training-questions/)
-   -   Alpha Roll (https://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/general-training-questions/181983-alpha-roll.html)

YorkieMother 08-21-2009 12:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chachi (Post 2765824)
It just seems like if you dont agree with it dont do it. But I dont know why it has to be debated all the time by the same people
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/tra...n-anxiety.html

here is the link to the whole thread. See if you can pick up what may have gone wrong and what you think can be done.
Remeber he was in a fear state and now it is worse.
Know what? Roll him??? Can him??? pop a leash?? ignore it???
Just what is going to fix this???

JL

chachi 08-21-2009 12:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieMother (Post 2765831)
http://www.yorkietalk.com/forums/tra...n-anxiety.html

here is the link to the whole thread. See if you can pick up what may have gone wrong and what you think can be done.
Remeber he was in a fear state and now it is worse.
Know what? Roll him??? Can him??? pop a leash?? ignore it???
Just what is going to fix this???

JL
I dont know what I would have done exactly I would have to think on it more or read a training book but I dont know what I would do is relevant since I didnt post on it . Also I read every post on there and no one suggessted the alpha roll so I dont see where this is relevant

YorkieMother 08-21-2009 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chachi (Post 2765830)
There are also plenty of people on here that it has worked for and they have the right to give advice the same as you do. When it comes down to it no one on here is more qualified than anyone to give opinions it is just opinions on an open forum. I believe there are more than one way to train a dog and no one is a superior source of knowledge on the subject
But if they brake a dog can they fix it?
and if they miss read something and head for a roll and they got ti wrong that dog is broke. We can not see the dog here and we are playing with lives would it not be the best course of action to do it slow and safe.

they brAke it they sure are not going to get a chance to fix it cause the owners not going to trust them. The now have a broke dog in crises in mental pain and pretty much going to be put down if someone does not do clean up.. I talking about rolling a dog here not the post above.
Yup it is an open forum but are you going to be around to clean up the mess if an owner does a roll gets bit or the dog crashes. Not thinking so.
You go slow and easy you got no mess to clean up and not need to hide if it blows up cause it is not going too.

JL

YorkieMother 08-21-2009 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chachi (Post 2765835)
I dont know what I would have done exactly I would have to think on it more or read a training book but I dont know what I would do is relevant since I didnt post on it . Also I read every post on there and no one suggessted the alpha roll so I dont see where this is relevant
I Am aware that they did not suggest a roll but what is it that messed this boy up. Can we and I mean we find it?
Something has rattled this little one very badly team effort needs to be made to find it and we need to go slow to fix it.
I think the best course is to get fresh eye and someone PM Erin and see if her eyes can catch it. Something triggered this boy and we need that to fix this.

JL

chachi 08-21-2009 01:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieMother (Post 2765836)
But if they brake a dog can they fix it?
and if they miss read something and head for a roll and they got ti wrong that dog is broke. We can not see the dog here and we are playing with lives would it not be the best course of action to do it slow and safe.

they brAke it they sure are not going to get a chance to fix it cause the owners not going to trust them. The now have a broke dog in crises in mental pain and pretty much going to be put down if someone does not do clean up.. I talking about rolling a dog here not the post above.
Yup it is an open forum but are you going to be around to clean up the mess if an owner does a roll gets bit or the dog crashes. Not thinking so.
You go slow and easy you got no mess to clean up and not need to hide if it blows up cause it is not going too.

JL
Again thats your opinion only. It has worked for plenty of other people. Thats all Im going to say on th subject because I didnt mean to get into debating this subject that has been debated to death on here

chachi 08-21-2009 01:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieMother (Post 2765838)
I Am aware that they did not suggest a roll but what is it that messed this boy up. Can we and I mean we find it?
Something has rattled this little one very badly team effort needs to be made to find it and we need to go slow to fix it.
I think the best course is to get fresh eye and someone PM Erin and see if her eyes can catch it. Something triggered this boy and we need that to fix this.

JL
Well first I would try leaving him separate from the other dog to make sure there wasnt a problem that way. I would also have the vet check for a UTI

YorkieMother 08-21-2009 01:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chachi (Post 2765840)
Again thats your opinion only. It has worked for plenty of other people. Thats all Im going to say on th subject because I didnt mean to get into debating this subject that has been debated to death on here
opinion - 7 dictionary results
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o⋅pin⋅ion  /əˈpɪnyən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uh-pin-yuhn] Show IPA
Use opinion in a Sentence
–noun 1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

OK good greif had to go look this up..science science sceince says facts say research says it is not based on insuffecient grounds now alpha is.


2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal. Not personal learned tested, study by many,

And alpha been deamed to to have insuffcient evidecne in repeated studies that it was any value.

JL

YorkieMother 08-21-2009 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chachi (Post 2765843)
Well first I would try leaving him separate from the other dog to make sure there wasnt a problem that way. I would also have the vet check for a UTI
Good start most males do not get UTI but could be bladderstone.
Hummm what about a kidney infection.. ok that out there but maybe it worth a quick google look see.

Lets keep looking

JL

chachi 08-21-2009 01:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieMother (Post 2765845)
Good start most males do not get UTI but could be bladderstone.
Hummm what about a kidney infection.. ok that out there but maybe it worth a quick google look see.

Lets keep looking

JL
Thats not true males do get urinary tract infections. There was someone on here that had a male that was peeing in the house and it was not usual behavior. I told her he should be checked for a uti or stones. She pmed me back and told me the vet saidd he had a UTI. Whenever a dog is peeing in places its not supposed to and its not a usual behavior it should be checked

YorkieMother 08-21-2009 01:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chachi (Post 2765848)
Thats not true males do get urinary tract infections. There was someone on here that had a male that was peeing in the house and it was not usual behavior. I told her he should be checked for a uti or stones. She pmed me back and told me the vet saidd he had a UTI
You are right it not normally that and needs to be looked at for sure for certain and I did post that to the thread and not as my suggestion at all.

Cause I did not come up with that.

JL

Ladymom 08-21-2009 06:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chachi (Post 2765830)
There are also plenty of people on here that it has worked for and they have the right to give advice the same as you do. When it comes down to it no one on here is more qualified than anyone to give opinions it is just opinions on an open forum. I believe there are more than one way to train a dog and no one is a superior source of knowledge on the subject
Does it mean nothing to you that the Monks of New Skete, who introduced the alpha roll in their book How to Be Your Dog's Best Friend in 1976, have since expressed regret that they had included the alpha roll in the book because has been misused by dog owners?

The Monks of New Skete explained that the alpha roll was only meant to be used in the most serious cases and only by professionals.

chachi 08-21-2009 07:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladymom (Post 2766054)
Does it mean nothing to you that the Monks of New Skete, who introduced the alpha roll in their book How to Be Your Dog's Best Friend in 1976, have since expressed regret that they had included the alpha roll in the book because has been misused by dog owners?

The Monks of New Skete explained that the alpha roll was only meant to be used in the most serious cases and only by professionals.
No it doesnt. The only thing that matters to me is that I did it in the one and only time my dog showed aggression in 4 1/2 yrs and it worked he never did it again. It matters to me that I watched Cesar do it with positive results. It matters to me that I have read others have done it on here with positive results. Maybe Im just a more results oriented type of person than a listening to the experts type of person. Experts can have agendas

YorkieMother 08-21-2009 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chachi (Post 2766083)
No it doesnt. The only thing that matters to me is that I did it in the one and only time my dog showed aggression in 4 1/2 yrs and it worked he never did it again. It matters to me that I watched Cesar do it with positive results. It matters to me that I have read others have done it on here with positive results. Maybe Im just a more results oriented type of person than a listening to the experts type of person. Experts can have agendas
go read the very last post in the ceser thread and see what at says about why it ( may) work for him and why it does not do so for all to many. just cause you had a dog that could handle it does not mean that it will work on a dog that is far more fragile. unless one goes slow and really watches the dogs body languae tossing them to the ground is the fastest way to wreak a dog with limited bouce back and that is alife time to fix.
You got to not start from heavy handed and go up you ru out of room fast if the dog doesn ot respond and many do not.
If you start from soft and go up you have a tin more room to make slit oops and still go forward.


jl

chachi 08-21-2009 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YorkieMother (Post 2766114)
go read the very last post in the ceser thread and see what at says about why it ( may) work for him and why it does not do so for all to many. just cause you had a dog that could handle it does not mean that it will work on a dog that is far more fragile. unless one goes slow and really watches the dogs body languae tossing them to the ground is the fastest way to wreak a dog with limited bouce back and that is alife time to fix.
You got to not start from heavy handed and go up you ru out of room fast if the dog doesn ot respond and many do not.
If you start from soft and go up you have a tin more room to make slit oops and still go forward.


jl
The only thing I saw in that article that it might be effective for Cesar and not someone else is his presense. Anyone who wants to do any training method on their dog has to have presense. They have to be their dogs leader. So I agree with you if they arent their dogs leader they might not be successful with it. Although I think most people on here try to acchieve that

Ladymom 08-21-2009 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chachi (Post 2766182)
The only thing I saw in that article that it might be effective for Cesar and not someone else is his presense. Anyone who wants to do any training method on their dog has to have presense. They have to be their dogs leader. So I agree with you if they arent their dogs leader they might not be successful with it. Although I think most people on here try to acchieve that
What is "presense"? :confused:


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